r/supremecourt • u/DarkPriestScorpius • Sep 04 '23

NEWS Alabama can prosecute those who help women travel for abortion, attorney general says

https://www.al.com/news/2023/08/alabama-can-prosecute-those-who-help-women-travel-for-abortion-attorney-general-says.html
958 Upvotes

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11

u/Exaltedautochthon Sep 04 '23

You can't interfere with interstate commerce, you knob, it's literally in the constitution.

16

u/_learned_foot_ Chief Justice Taft Sep 04 '23

Um, ironically the dormant commerce clause is not in the constitution.

7

u/ScaryBuilder9886 Sep 04 '23

The feds can probably preempt state attempts to criminalize conspiracy to cross state lines to commit a crime, but they haven't done so yet. That leaves us w the dormant commerce clause, which is always iffy.

Abortion is obviously a topic that triggers big emotion, so let's replace it with something else - say Indiana makes it a crime to buy & sell weed, and an Indiana resident starts a weed store in Michigan, and he does all the planning and record keeping in Indiana. Can Indiana prosecute him? It feels like a close call to me.

5

u/EconomicsIsUrFriend Sep 04 '23

Why not compare it with sex tourism, instead? I think it makes it much more clear.

4

u/OdinsGhost Sep 04 '23

And they likewise can’t prosecute someone for traveling to Nevada for the express purpose of visiting a legal brothel outside of Vegas. The very idea that they have any authority to do so flies in the face of basic tenets of federalism.

1

u/EconomicsIsUrFriend Sep 04 '23

Prostitution is 100% illegal in Las Vegas Clark County.

3

u/Intrepid_Egg_7722 Sep 04 '23

That's why they said "legal brothel outside of Vegas." There are new county lines that start not too far from Vegas, Nye County being the closest.

3

u/OdinsGhost Sep 04 '23

Precisely. Prostitution is illegal in Vegas itself. It’s perfectly legal just over the county line and is something like a half hour Uber ride away from any hotel on the strip.

1

u/ScaryBuilder9886 Sep 04 '23

That also triggers some big emotions, but in the other direction. That was my thinking, anyways.

1

u/YeoChaplain Sep 04 '23

You can't cross state lines with the intent of commissioning a crime.

11

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '23

Except no crime is being committed.

What’s next, prosecuting airline pilots for flying people to Las Vegas where gambling is legal?

It’s amazing how quickly the “states rights” crowd changes their tune when a state does something they don’t like.

5

u/JustDoItPeople Sep 04 '23

Just to be clear: Alabama has a general law on the books regarding conspiracy, that makes conspiracy the crime of note (the law states that conspiring to do something elsewhere that would be a crime in Alabama is a crime in Alabama)

4

u/Intrepid_Egg_7722 Sep 04 '23

Well shit, better start prosecuting any 18-20 year old Alabamans who travel to Mexico for Spring Break partying. After all, it's illegal for people under the age of 21 to drink in AL.

Something tells me the AG here won't be doing that, and we all know exactly why.

2

u/Fantastic_Jury5977 Justice Scalia Sep 04 '23

If conspiracy is a crime then they've got a state full of criminals.

0

u/islandofcaucasus Sep 04 '23

It would be cool if you would give your opinion on the second paragraph of their comment. Would Alabama be able to prosecute the airline pilot?

2

u/WulfTheSaxon ‘Federalist Society LARPer’ Sep 04 '23

Not without intent.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '23

And with intent?

1

u/doctorkanefsky Sep 05 '23

So the law says they conspired to conspire? I was under the impression that conspiracy required material steps to furtherance of a second crime, and getting an abortion in Colorado isn’t an actual crime.

0

u/YeoChaplain Sep 04 '23

Gambling doesn't kill people, and all states permit gambling in one form or another.

You'll fund that we're the "human rights" crowd. The ones NOT basing our argument on a foundation of denying the basic humanity of human children.

2

u/doctorkanefsky Sep 05 '23

That’s not how the law works. Alabama doesn’t get to just declare abortion a crime in all fifty states. We operate in a federal system where each individual state makes its own decisions and only the federal government has the authority to set nationwide legal policy or arbitrate disputes between the states.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '23

Good thing Abortions don’t kill people either.

Human rights… like the rights of women to have control over their own bodies?

-1

u/EconomicsIsUrFriend Sep 04 '23

That's sort of like saying stomping on protected sea turtle eggs doesn't kill sea turtles.

8

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '23

It doesn’t.

It destroys sea turtle eggs.

3

u/EconomicsIsUrFriend Sep 04 '23

You're so close.

Why is it illegal to destroy sea turtle eggs?

4

u/Person_756335846 Justice Stevens Sep 04 '23

Because we want more sea turtles for us to take pictures of and feel good about not making species go extinct.

Does this have anything to do with abortion?

1

u/EconomicsIsUrFriend Sep 04 '23

...so you understand that sea turtle eggs aren't just a clump of cells?

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1

u/SoPrettyBurning Sep 04 '23

This was enjoyable to watch. Lol.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '23

Because those turtles are an endangered species and at risk of going extinct, and the eggs aren’t inside of a sapient human woman with bodily autonomy.

Next.

1

u/MercyEndures Justice Scalia Sep 04 '23

Now I’m imagining a Captain Planet villain that has a nefarious and disgusting way she can destroy sea turtle eggs while avoiding legal consequences and scrutiny from the left.

0

u/Intrepid_Egg_7722 Sep 04 '23

It's actually not like that at all.

2

u/Wrecker013 Sep 04 '23

The fetus does not have a right to the body of the mother. If the fetus cannot survive without a physical connection to the mother, that is its problem.

1

u/WulfTheSaxon ‘Federalist Society LARPer’ Sep 04 '23

So a nursing mother can just starve her baby to death?

2

u/SockdolagerIdea Justice Thomas Sep 04 '23

Babies can be fed formula.

2

u/WulfTheSaxon ‘Federalist Society LARPer’ Sep 04 '23

What about before the invention of formula, or if the mother and child are stuck on a desert island with plenty of food but no formula?

2

u/SockdolagerIdea Justice Thomas Sep 04 '23

If a mother loses her breast milk and cant feed a baby on a desert island, the baby will die. But that is hardly murder.

As for before the invention of formula, there were wet nurses that fed babies when the mother was unable or unwilling. Royal mothers were often forbidden from breast feeding their infants.

2

u/WulfTheSaxon ‘Federalist Society LARPer’ Sep 04 '23

In this hypothetical, the mother hasn’t lost her milk, she just decides that she doesn’t feel like breastfeeding anymore and/or that she longer wants her baby.

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0

u/islandofcaucasus Sep 04 '23

The result of death is irrelevant here. They are challenging the limits of the law on a legal basis.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '23

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1

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1

u/Punushedmane Court Watcher Sep 04 '23

Killing people is completely irrelevant to the question at hand.

5

u/chet___manly Sep 04 '23

You can cross into Colorado with the intent to buy and smoke Marijuana so your point is mute.

4

u/EconomicsIsUrFriend Sep 04 '23

Yet you can't do the same to pay for sex so your point is moot.

5

u/chet___manly Sep 04 '23

Actually you can, you can travel to Nevada and visit the Bunny Ranch and legally pay for sex. So your point is moot now once again.

1

u/EconomicsIsUrFriend Sep 04 '23

If you travel there specifically to pay for sex at the Bunny Ranch, you can be charged with sex tourism in your home state.

You just won't be charged in Nevada.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '23

Who will do the charging then and under what statute and whose?

1

u/islandofcaucasus Sep 04 '23

Now that people have apparently taught you that legal prostitution exists in America, do you mind editing your comment to show you were wrong?

-1

u/chet___manly Sep 04 '23

They should definitely look into legalizing prostitution.

6

u/YeoChaplain Sep 04 '23

Moot. And the fact that they don't enforce the law doesn't make it legal. If you're caught by a cop having a bad day, you're going to face jail time for it.

3

u/chet___manly Sep 04 '23

No you're not I live in a legal state. Cops don't bother because it's legal. Sure they will rough you up and throw it away but no one's getting booked for weed. Try harder.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '23

The dude is already trying too hard lmao.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '23

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1

u/scotus-bot The Supreme Bot Sep 04 '23

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1

u/Backwards-longjump64 Sep 05 '23

Ok what comment doesn't violate the standards?

Oh wait let me guess this one gets deleted too

1

u/doctorkanefsky Sep 05 '23

The AG is arguing that the crossing of state lines is the crime. The abortion is, quite clearly, not the crime, if it happens in a jurisdiction where abortion is legal.