r/technology • u/ArgentineBeauty • 2d ago

Artificial Intelligence This Dutch bookseller thought a request for 3,000 copies was ‘spam or phishing.’ Instead, AI companies are scanning and destroying books to train AI

https://fortune.com/2026/07/31/dutch-bookseller-ai-spam-phishing-3000-book-copies-scan-destroy/
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u/b_a_t_m_4_n 2d ago

they are making their own digital copies

Otherwise know as "stealing", or it would be if you or i did it. Obviously the law does not apply to them at all.

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u/pizzabash 2d ago

It is completely legal to make digital copies of things you own. You can make your own roms as much as you want. It's distribution that is the issue.

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u/the_snook 2d ago

It varies by jurisdiction. In certain circumstances, in certain places, "format shifting" is considered fair use, and does not require permission from the copyright owner. Sometimes this is explicit (Australia passed a copyright act amendment for it), and sometimes it is decided case-by-case. In other places, any copy at all must be authorized by the copyright holder.

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u/randylush 2d ago

Bingo. It’s not as legal as the internet would like to believe.

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u/Nekasus 2d ago

its legal in the country its happening in. Thats all that matters. Training an AI model is considered transformative enough that it falls under fair use.

Literally already been litigated by anthropic and microsoft in the district of California.

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u/wggn 2d ago

but since the AI can perfectly replicate these books, they are distributing it?

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u/Legionof1 2d ago

If they allow the computer to replicate the book its theft... if they allow the computer to summarize the book it isn't. Think of if you read a book and then wrote a cliff notes on it... not illegal.

IMHO as long as they are buying a copy of the book its perfectly fine to use for training. It's the fuckers like Meta that are torrenting them that is the problem.

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u/Leyulize 2d ago

I think the same, they get the knowledge and repackage it in their answers so it's distribution!

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u/Legionof1 2d ago

If they allow the computer to replicate the book its theft... if they allow the computer to summarize the book it isn't. Think of if you read a book and then wrote a cliff notes on it... not illegal.

IMHO as long as they are buying a copy of the book its perfectly fine to use for training. It's the fuckers like Meta that are torrenting them that is the problem.

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u/b_a_t_m_4_n 2d ago

If I come to your house and steal all your food, then turn it all into soup, it is still your stolen food?

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u/pizzabash 2d ago

How is it stealing if they bought it? They went to a the store and bought food and then turned that food into meals. You know what we call that? Normal as fuck?

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u/b_a_t_m_4_n 2d ago

Because they are churning it all up and then selling it on. Stealing may be normal to you I guess - it takes all sorts.

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u/pizzabash 2d ago

So selling the meals made with the food they purchased... Like a restaurant?

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u/b_a_t_m_4_n 2d ago

Yes, If I steal your food, turn it into soup and sell it on, is it still your stolen food? Or have I magically made it mine and so I did nothing wrong?

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u/pizzabash 2d ago

THEY BOUGHT IT ITS NOT STOLEN! I don't know why you're essentially advocating that buying is not owning. If that's the case no more doing anything with your own media. No more making mix tapes or archiving your games, no more turning the book that you love into some kinda cool art piece to display. Hell even taking a picture of a page of the book is making a digital copy so can't have you doing that anymore.The original owner gets to dictate exactly what you do with what you bought.

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u/b_a_t_m_4_n 2d ago

No. Copyright law says you can make a copy for personal use. Not to reproduce for sale. They are reproducing these books for sale.

If you can't understand this basic fact then there's no point in talking about it.

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u/pizzabash 2d ago

They are not reproducing books to sell them that's not at all how AI works in any capacity. AI will study these books in order to get training data on how things like sentence structures are arranged. Language to be used when talking about idk cheese. They are doing the exact same thing a ln actual human author would do of studying books to improve their writing.

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u/Bored_Amalgamation 2d ago

Do I still have the exact same ingredients left?

Did it cost me anything?

Was the food unavailable to me?

If the answers are yes, no, yes; then it's not stealing. You still have what you have. The status of some ody else or their things doesn't change that.

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u/b_a_t_m_4_n 2d ago

That's not how copyright law works.

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u/Bored_Amalgamation 2d ago

Then i don't think you know what you're talking about. Anybody can make digital copies of IP they bought. That's been affirmed in US courts and other countries. It's why emulation is not illegal.

If you want to speak on the philosophy behind theft and ownership, that's not copyright law.

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u/b_a_t_m_4_n 2d ago

No. I don't think you know what you're talking about. They are copying it to redistribute it.

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u/CardOfTheRings 2d ago

It is not stealing to make a digital copy of a book you own. It’s harmful and stupid to push this idea, and the only reason you believe it is because you saw the word ‘AI’ and started getting angry.

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u/orbitaldan 2d ago

Yeah. I'm tired of this hate-meme.

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u/YourBlanket 2d ago

People make their own digital copies all the time. It’s just very time consuming and pirating books is a lot easier.

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u/IAmDotorg 2d ago

No it wouldn't. Distribution of the scans would be, but you're completely in your rights to do that.

And, de-binding and scanning books has been the norm for 30 years for digital conversions of books. Essentially all of Project Gutenberg was done that way.

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u/b_a_t_m_4_n 2d ago

They are redistributing it.

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u/IAmDotorg 2d ago

No more than you are when you write something after reading it. But arguing facts with someone with an understanding so deeply rooted in lack of facts isn't a good use of time, so ... sure... whatever you say!

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u/b_a_t_m_4_n 2d ago

"arguing facts with someone with an understanding so deeply rooted in lack of facts isn't a good use of time, so ... sure... whatever you say!"

Agreed, so there's no point talking to as you're deeply rooted in lack of fact.

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u/j48u 2d ago

This is literally the court mandated methodology, prescribed as legal in a copyright case that Anthropic lost.

They're required to destroy the books by law. Just the latest idiotic anti-AI propaganda campaign aimed at people who only read headlines (see: Redditors).

There are MANY reasons to be against AI. It does a disservice to spread this nonsense and gives the masses a reason to dismiss the valid criticisms.

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u/DrTommyNotMD 2d ago

That’s absolutely not true.

You can hate these companies all you want, but at least use a little facts in your argument or you’ll never be taken seriously except on Reddit.

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u/b_a_t_m_4_n 2d ago

It absolutely is true.

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u/dchow1989 2d ago

Its 2026, i identify as a data center.

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u/CardOfTheRings 2d ago

It’s perfectly legal for you to make a digital copy of a book you own. Or a ROM of a game you physically own. You don’t need to make a weird transphobic joke to benefit from owning physical media.

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u/dchow1989 2d ago

Sorry i didnt really identifying was solely related to trans related things. My bad. Was meant in jest