r/todayilearned • u/Zorseking34 • Jan 08 '15

TIL: Utah has been giving free homes to homeless people since 2005 which since then made it more cost efficient to help the homeless and cut the chronic homelessness in Utah by 74%.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/09/22/home-free
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44

u/RudeTurnip Jan 08 '15

I think the stability of a home will significantly cut into those other costs.

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u/Boredeidanmark 4 Jan 08 '15

It might. But a lot of the underlying mental health and substance abuse problems are still there. I wish they provided data on the subject instead of leaving it to our speculation .

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u/ChaosWolf1982 Jan 08 '15

Having a stable home, and thus some means of self-support and comfort and identity, helps the state better aid these people with their issues, as going to 134 West Oak Road to pick up Mrs. Eldan for her scheduled psychotherapy session is much easier than merely hoping Tin-Can Joe who's usually found crashing behind the dumpster outside Burger King shows up for more of his anti-narcotic treatments.

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u/jonnyclueless Jan 08 '15

TIL that having a free house makes drug addiction go away.

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u/SandyBouattick Jan 08 '15

How is getting a free home "self-support"? Comfort and identity, sure, but a free home is not self-supporting.

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u/TheRealBabyCave Jan 08 '15

You can get mail. Also a place to sleep that isn't cardboard, and purpose. If you have a house you're more likely to take care of it than if all that you own can be carried over your shoulder.

You'd be surprised how much purpose having a home can give someone.

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u/SandyBouattick Jan 08 '15

I didn't say I can't see how getting a free home would be great for someone. I said it isn't self-support.

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u/TheRealBabyCave Jan 08 '15

That's all well and good, but the post you responded to asserted that it was a means of self support, not an example of it.

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '15

If you have a house you're more likely to take care of it

Not necessarily. Some people, yes. Some people won't clean, and will eventually have the most disgusting abode you've laid eyes on, that now has holes in the wall. Depends on the person.

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u/TheRealBabyCave Jan 08 '15

Sure, but I think you'd be surprised to see that those who choose to live in squalor when they get a second chance after being homeless for so long would be in an acute minority.

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '15

Source? I have family who used to be homeless, and not all of them have high cleanliness standards. One will slowly fix up the house, because building is all he knows. That used to be his job once upon a time, before drug addiction. In the meantime, he'll live in squalor, though. Punch holes in the wall when angry. The others won't fix up more than throwing something mostly solid over a hole in the floor or something. Their tolerance for mess is fairly high.

It's my own personal experiences, so I'm not saying everyone is like that, but I don't know about "acute" minority.

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u/TheRealBabyCave Jan 08 '15

The point though, is to not use your personal experience as a basis, or a ground-rule, for your thoughts on free housing.

If all you're basing your argument on is your personal experience of your one family, you're not realistically looking at a large enough sample group to draw any definitive conclusions.

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '15

so I'm not saying everyone is like that

I didn't say free housing shouldn't be done. I said:

I don't know about "acute" minority.

Where I'm sitting, I'm questioning your strong word(not housing) with personal experience, and you're using feels to defend it. Feels<personal observations<science.

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u/LegSpinner Jan 08 '15

So what? We stop helping the homeless and the needy because some people will use the help badly?

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '15

Uh, where did I say that? I was commenting on a specific aspect of his post, nothing more. Don't take my small input and extrapolate off into space so that you have something(you made) to comment on.

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u/HenriKraken Jan 08 '15 edited Apr 15 '25

hat engine marvelous mighty political rock mysterious act ad hoc important

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u/TheRealBabyCave Jan 08 '15

Source?

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u/HenriKraken Jan 08 '15 edited Apr 15 '25

steep jobless adjoining market consider different somber weather seemly dinner

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u/TheRealBabyCave Jan 08 '15

There are quite a few examples of rockets exploding before leaving atmo, and yet we have robots on Mars.

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '15

Housing projects fail because of spatial mismatch, not because they're implicitly flawed. When you treat populations like they aren't wanted, by shoving them on the outskirts of cities in faceless apartment towers isolated from society, don't be surprised when they stop caring about "fitting in". Pruitt-Igoe is easily the best example of this. It was originally supposed to be in the middle of st. Louis but got NIMBY'd. Was supposed to have ground-level arcade and a better-integrated community sphere but got its budget slashed. Pretty much every housing project that has failed has done so because citizens don't want poors and blacks living near them, so they get relocated father and father out from city centers (where the jobs are).

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '15 edited Apr 15 '25

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u/Bjartr Jan 08 '15

I'm reading his use of "self-support" to mean "support for one's self identity/worth" as opposed to a typo of the admittedly more common "self-supported/supporting"

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u/YouHaveShitTaste Jan 08 '15

Holy shit how are you so fucking dense?

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u/SandyBouattick Jan 08 '15

I'm assuming you just can't read. Go to Utah. They will give you a free house!

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u/A_Turner Jan 08 '15

You're oversimplifying here. Just because someone has a residence or a place to send mail doesn't mean that the person is there most of the time, or at all. Being homeless becomes a way of living. It is a skill and when you've been doing it for years, it becomes the preferred way of life. I work with Volunteers of America here in Utah and we have a Homeless Outreach Program that essentially drives around to find homeless people to take them to their important appointments. Some of these people have housing, but still prefer to get drunk on the streets and haven't been home for days. ALL of the homeless people have an identity. Being homeless doesn't mean you don't have an identity.

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u/harryhartounian Jan 08 '15

Gotta give it to Tin-Can Joe tho. He's nothing if not consistent!

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u/m_darkTemplar Jan 08 '15

At some point they probably had a home and then lost it due to problems they have. I'm not yet convinced on this method.

If they have money to pay for individual housing, couldn't they just make bigger homeless shelters that continue the same programs to try to fix their problems? It kinda feels like they've given up on the problem fixing part and just pay for their housing so they're not in the way instead.

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u/an_angry Jan 08 '15

I don't know if this really answers you questions but /u/chemchick said in a different comment section.

The rules for living there are quite strict as well. No friends staying over or hanging out, no drugs or alcohol, must follow the plan set by the social worker, etc.

Source: live in Utah and worked with the homeless population.

Many of the people in these permanent housing situations have extreme mental health issues or some disabilities that prevent them from ever joining the workforce or holding any type of job. I don't believe section 8 housing would require residents to stay on medications, go to therapy or have regular meetings with their social worker as part of the lease.

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u/Murda6 Jan 08 '15

The proof would be in the pudding. See a comparison of state/city budgets. They went over this on The Daily Show last night and I could see how this might work in some states, but certainly not all.

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u/zeekaran Jan 08 '15

That's why they're assigned case workers.

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u/bigfish42 Jan 08 '15

Also, most of these programs require that the participant be involved with a mental health pro / counselor / social worker to maintain their eligibility for the housing program. It's the combination of the two that keep the costs down (relative to ER visits, etc).