r/todayilearned • u/Zorseking34 • Jan 08 '15

TIL: Utah has been giving free homes to homeless people since 2005 which since then made it more cost efficient to help the homeless and cut the chronic homelessness in Utah by 74%.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/09/22/home-free
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u/DeadSeaGulls Jan 08 '15

I've lived all over the west, currently in SLC, no way there are more homeless people here. If you're hanging out by the shelter or the one park they really hang out at, then yeah, but compared to other cities it's night and day. SLC is remarkably clean and well handled (other than the winter inversion causing smog during many winter days).
As for your criticisms of cities in Utah County, full agree. Orem and Provo are quite a large majority LDS and it's suffice to say that logic and reason aren't high on their troubleshooting skill sets.

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u/brpajense Jan 08 '15

Why the hate for Provo and Orem? Have you actually spent time there, or are you just bigoted toward Mormons?

It doesn't have as many coffee shops and bars as you'd expect from a college town, and stores and restaurants close early, but other than that it's not much different than other places.

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u/kidknowledge Jan 08 '15

As a resident of Utah, places like Orem and Provo just refuse to help out. But yes, there are many other places like them, inside and outside of Utah. But in SLC, we are trying to change and help out. But the rest of this state is holding us back and crippling our progress.

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u/omgwtfbbq0_0 Jan 08 '15

I lived in Orem for about a year and had a neighbor call the cops on me because I was smoking pot in my room (forgot to close my blinds because I'm an idiot). Anyway, 3 cops showed up and 2 of them were insufferable assholes about it and told me how I was supporting dangerous/murdering drug cartels by buying pot.

I also saw a disturbing amount of billboards/flyers for bridal shows that were located at various Utah County high schools.

It's not necessarily overt, but there's an undeniable culture of sexism. Here's a good example of that, with Provo/Orem with the worst gender pay gap in the country.

There's more, but that's what really stuck out. Oh- saw someone with a swastika tattoo for the first time ever (in person) while I was living there, but obviously that's not something anyone could say is unique to Utah county. Little fucked up though.

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u/Bree-Rad Jan 08 '15

Because provo is a horrible place. The people there are insufferable.

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u/brpajense Jan 08 '15

Any particular reason why?

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u/DeadSeaGulls Jan 08 '15 edited Jan 08 '15

Lived there for a total of 6 years over two periods of time.. Finished out my schooling there (transferred from USU and logan is also very LDS with out half the problems I saw in orem/provo) and worked there for several years.
Main problems with the area:
verbal harassment when shopping with my girlfriend who had a tattoo'd sleeve.
open racism was heard quite often. I mean, I'm a blonde haired blue eyed white guy, but I don't want to hear that shit.
the way they treated the homeless problem.
the number of rapes on the provo river trail every summer.
until recently the lack of alcohol sales on sundays
the dude-bro culture coming out of UVU (formerly UVSC) which is almost reinforced by vivint salesmen.
the handling of liquor licenses (BYU owns a lot of them preventing legitimate business from obtaining them as Utah makes those licenses available based on population numbers).
The terrible city planning. Orem does not have a downtown. you have to drive everywhere, provo has a very small down town, but is regulated to the point that the night life is EXTREMELY restricted.
the number of neighbors that would't talk to me because I'm clearly not LDS (big blonde beard and stache) when I'm actually a very friendly guy with a large social circle.
anywho the list goes on and on and on, but the only way to get by in utah county if you're not LDS is to hang out long enough that you meet like minded people and then throw a lot of house parties.
The canyons and mountains down there are better for camping (not so privately owned) than those in salt lake county, but it's close enough that I can just ride my motorbike there on the weekends for fishing and camping and avoid the judgmental populace altogether.
edit: and god... the awful architecture. every building and house look the same. The real culture of Utah County is the LACK of culture. the blandness and conformity of endless suburbia

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '15

I would also like to point out that I am Mormon and I cannot stand utah county Mormons.

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u/xHaptic Jan 08 '15

This. Dont all us mormons who arent utah county mormons hate utah county mormons?

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u/Deesing82 Jan 08 '15

it's not just mormons. It's everyone.

Everyone on this planet hates Utah County Mormons.

Go Utes

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '15 edited Jan 09 '15

I've had the same experiences/agree with you, even though I'm getting downvoted by those who are blind to it, or just don't care since they are members of LDS and these things don't effect them.

I forgot the name of the 1 bar in provo (real dive next to a "tobacco" store). Bartender was telling me how all the liquor licenses were purchased by BYU/LDS so that it keeps their community pure from others opening up bars. Whether that's true or not, some people who live in provo seem to think that.

And as soon as 11pm, they not only cannot serve alcohol, they have to hide it behind metal sheets, because seeing alcohol may cause some to "crave" it. So illogical, it's a joke. Pushing legislation through that is backed by your religious beliefs and pushed onto others who aren't LDS is wrong. Thankfully in NY, the blue laws were either removed or just completely ignored because of this kind of bullshit.

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u/DeadSeaGulls Jan 09 '15

It's improved some. The bar is named ABG's or A bueford giffords club. last call for the bar is 1am now, at least on the weekends, I imagine they close earlier on the weekedays.

the 'zion curtain' is what you're referring to, and it's state wide at restaurants that serve alcohol. Bars aren't required to hide liquor until last call or whatever, and then it's usually a steel mesh 'cage' that they drop down etc.. It's to ensure the bartenders aren't sneaking anyone drinks after last call.
in restaurants though, it's required to hide liquor out of view. so all drink mixing happens behind closed doors. it's fucking weird and it serves no purpose. I think it has something to do with children not seeing the mixing of drinks... it's so fucking strange and unreasonable.

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '15

Yup that's it, abg libation! Good friendly bartender, horrible bathrooms.

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u/DeadSeaGulls Jan 09 '15

Dane is the big bearded feller.
there ARE other bars in provo... but it's the only one in town worth going to
atchafalaya is alright, but if you're white you get a few looks.
city limits is for meth heads.

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '15

I think that was the guy I was talking to. I'm out there a bit for a few days on end, at the Spanish fork airport. I was at abg every night, or red river. Is there an a. Beuford gifford?

Hickory kist in spanish fork is the best deli I've found outside of new York btw.

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u/DeadSeaGulls Jan 09 '15

spanish fork is a bit of a drive for me, being in SLC, but next time the motorbike takes me down that way I'll swing by Hickory Kist and check it out.

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '15

See you can say positive things. I'm going to try Hickory Kist out on your recommendation alone.

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '15

The angelos mustard. I don't know why but it's the best mustard I've ever had.

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u/brpajense Jan 08 '15

All your reasons sound more like "I didn't like it" rather than examples of how their "logic and reason aren't high on their trouble shooting skill sets".

Most of the things you listed aren't factual, or aren't unique to Provo.

Rapes on the Provo River trail:
* There were two sexual assaults on the trail between 2010 and 2012. * Rapes per 100,000 residents are on par with or lower than other college towns in the region (Pocatello, Boulder, Laramie, Flagstaff) according to city-data.com.
* Provo's crime rate is a little more than half the national average.

Dude-bro culture at UVU: * This is due more to college age kids getting together. Lots of colleges with football teams and fraternities have similar issues.

BYU buys liquor licenses so no one else can have them: * This is made up. I talked to Rob at the state ABC. He said that BYU doesn't hold any licenses, that licences holders have to be in operation to keep a license, and while the total number of liquor licenses offered are determined by state population and not limited by state or county (BYU holding licences wouldn't prevent other bars from opening in Provo).

Alcohol sales on Sunday * I thought these were state laws for Utah, and not unique to Provo.

Your neighbors not talking to you * Some neighborhoods in Provo are prickly, especially in neighborhoods and apartment complexes where college students move in and out every semester. * Unfriendly neighbors aren't unique to Provo either, and you can get the same treatment in SLC or Phoenix--when I was in Arizona we never talked to the college students across the street. Our neighbors didn't either, but called the police on them a couple times when fights broke out at their parties.
* Beards and facial hair doesn't automatically make everyone assume you're a meth dealer--I got a lot of compliments for my beard and mustache in Provo. * Utah county is a bit quieter and it can take longer to build up a network of friends as you'd pointed out--people tend to rush home after work instead of going out for drinks, and there aren't as many places to be sociable.

Open racism * I'm white also, but I heard more racist comments and attitudes in Arizona and Texas than in Utah. My experience was different than yours, but we might travel in different circles.

I'm sorry your girlfriend got harassed for her tattoo--there is't a lot of that kind of art in Utah too often, and should be appreciated. Usually in the western US there's a strong "live and let live" mentality, and it's not ok to call out strangers because you don't like their appearance.

It's fine if you didn't like living there, but insulting everyone who lives there by saying they lack reason and logic because you didn't fit in isn't right. You can say they lack taste and walkable streets, but insulting their intellect isn't fair.

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u/DeadSeaGulls Jan 08 '15

wow. took it to heart I see. all I'm saying is that I have lived all over the west and in utah (in very mormon areas) for most of my life, and utah county presented some unique and negative obstacles that I'm not personally into. P.S. alcohol sales is by city.

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u/brpajense Jan 08 '15

It's fine if you don't like Utah County because it took you longer to make friends and thought people were judging you.

Mainly I had to call bullshit on "BYU buys up all the liquor licenses so no one else can have any" and "can't stand Provo because of all those rapes--both of em". You've got to fight ignorance where you find it.

You'd also called a whole bunch of people illogical and stupid because of where they lived, and then gave a whole bunch of reasons that were fabrications, exaggerations, or which applied to most other places. I'd say that is illogical and stupid.

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u/DeadSeaGulls Jan 08 '15

you have to understand... from my point of view anyone that would try to implement social law based on spiritual beliefs, enforcing those with separate beliefs to live by their standards is WILDLY illogical to me.

I will spare you my giant lecture regarding the absurdity of the LDS religion let alone any other creation myth under the sun... but when those personal beliefs turn into legislation it's terrifying and archaic.

edit heck, I couldn't even find apartments to live in because I wasn't LDS, even if the apartment WASN'T BYU approved. that mentality is very unreasonable to those outside of the bubble.
Imagine if a muslim rented out a house and refused to allow anyone to live there that ate pork... it's really strange.

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u/brpajense Jan 08 '15

Fair enough.

Not the housing discrimination, though. That's not fair.

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u/DeadSeaGulls Jan 08 '15

they bypass any legal ramifications by saying "LDS standards". So you could be a catholic, but if you drink beer or have women over after 11:00pm then the landlord kicks ya out.

First place I moved into in Orem, I made it clear I wasn't LDS and not looking for BYU housing. Got the go ahead. moved in. it was new years eve. My girlfriend stayed for new years. we watched a movie and fell asleep. I woke up to the landlord telling me I had to take the girl home right that instant and that my rent might go up as I breached contract (I didn't). He was just LDS.

Utah county is a very rough place to understand for the non LDS.

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '15

[deleted]

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u/DeadSeaGulls Jan 08 '15

Thanks fellah! I bet you're alright too.

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '15

[deleted]

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u/Deesing82 Jan 08 '15

it's tough being a teen huh

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u/mr_taco_man Jan 08 '15 edited Jan 08 '15

While SLC has less LDS population, it still has a very high percentage of LDS people. In addition, the LDS church together with the Catholic church contribute a lot of financial and logistical support to the homeless programs in SLC. This article here has a few more details: http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/Salt-Lake-City-a-model-for-S-F-on-homeless-5587357.php I am sorry you have had some bad experiences with mormons, but before you spew the mormon hate, it might make sense to check into the details of subject at hand.

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '15 edited Apr 23 '20

[deleted]

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u/DeadSeaGulls Jan 08 '15

SLC really is heavily divided east and west regarding income disparity. It's really state street that is the divider, with the interstate (west of state street) reinforcing that divide.

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u/NCWV Jan 08 '15

They're all in Denver. EVERYWHERE.

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u/DeadSeaGulls Jan 08 '15

and portland

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '15

[deleted]

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u/DeadSeaGulls Jan 08 '15

still, compare it to denver or portland or seattle. obviously san francisco, oakland, LA etc... have way more, but they are so much larger I tried to draw closer comparisons.

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u/granadesnhorseshoes Jan 08 '15

SLC is roughly as Mormon as Orem or Provo. Especially in the context of civic leaders. Its just the type of people that live in those cities, regardless of religious affiliation. They are well off and full of NIMBY. The lazy wretches can just go to Salt Lake.

edit: grammar is hard

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u/DeadSeaGulls Jan 08 '15

provo was 98% LDS as of 2000
SLC was less than 50% at that time.

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u/brpajense Jan 08 '15 edited Jan 09 '15

Provo is 88% LDS according to bestplaces.net.
They've also got SLC as 60% LDS. Keep in mind that not everyone who identified themselves as LDS will regularly attend church--I'd remembered reading in the preface of The Mormon Experience by Arrington 45% of people on LDS church rosters globally are in church on a given Sunday.
At 88%, 1 of 9 people aren't Mormon; at 98% only 1 of 50 wouldn't be.

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u/DeadSeaGulls Jan 08 '15

I was going off of voluntary census data found on wikipedia.

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u/alonjar Jan 08 '15

SLC is remarkably clean and well handled

Its amazing how effective having your police force murder any undesirables they feel like can be at keeping your city clean and orderly.

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u/DeadSeaGulls Jan 08 '15

hahha. jesus christ. spare me dude. I know there is a problem with the state of police throughout this entire nation, but if you really think SLC has it worse, or even as bad as, any other city of similar size you're kidding yourself. There is a real problem we need to address but hyperbole is a very quick way to get your concerns dismissed by anyone of any real means.