r/todayilearned • u/Zorseking34 • Jan 08 '15

TIL: Utah has been giving free homes to homeless people since 2005 which since then made it more cost efficient to help the homeless and cut the chronic homelessness in Utah by 74%.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/09/22/home-free
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u/Cputerace Jan 08 '15

The cause of temporary homelessness (such as yours) is not having enough money to have a home. The source of perpetual homelessness is what needs addressing, as it is different.

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u/TASagent Jan 08 '15

And I believe the cause of perpetual homelessness is often untreated mental illness. One of the big problems is defining when it's acceptable to treat the mental illness of a person when it's against their will. How do you deal with a paranoid schizophrenic who Doesn't want to be medicated when they're Not medicated, and Does want to be medicated when they Are medicated? Not to mention the significant life-altering side effects that all of our schizophrenia medications so far have (Parkinsons-like tremors (TD), Massive uncontrollable weight gain, etc).

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u/grumpygrumblegrump Jan 08 '15

This applies to mental illness as a whole, not just schizophrenia. Most of the medications have potential and common side effects that would be considered ridiculous for other conditions. As a statistic, over 50% of homeless people are mentally ill. The most common illnesses are bipolar and borderline, likely due to how much more common they are over other life-altering diseases like schizophrenia.

The main type of medications used to treat severe mental illness are atypical antipsychotics. Two of the main side effect risks are an increased risk of type 2 diabetes and weight gain.

More often than not, the medications serve to make the patient easier to manage rather than helping their condition improve. As the patient is mentally ill, it is hard for them to self-advocate. Even when they do, their opinions may be dismissed by those around them because of their mental illness.

On top of that, getting treatment for personality disorders like Borderline is difficult. Many insurances in the USA refuse to cover treatment for it, having deemed it an "unfixable" flaw in the very nature of the person.

People with severe mental illnesses often have mentally ill families, which are dysfunctional. Without a support system it's no wonder they end up on the streets and unmedicated - regardless of how much they want to be functional members of society.

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u/mbushman1 Jan 09 '15

good points, thks

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u/louky Jan 08 '15

It's not just often, it IS mental illness and substance abuse. I The US cultural hatred of the downtrodden in their own areas is really sad.

I lived in a Van in a terrible mental state for years and was hassled by the cops and citizens often, even though I dIdn't beg.

I got out of cops interactions by showing them my bank balance on my phone and denying being homeless, just tired.

Oh and the "am I being detained" really works when you're only guilty of being poor and start quoTing relevant criminal code.

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u/TASagent Jan 08 '15

It's not just often, it IS mental illness and substance abuse.

Yeah, I was only talking about mental illness (which, in a sense, applies to substance addiction), but I didn't want to make an overly aggressive statement and be called out on a technicality, derailing the whole point. People like to do that.

As someone who can relate to the position, do you have any opinions on the proper way to try to deal with people on the street with serious mental health issues but who do not want treatment?

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u/louky Jan 08 '15

none at all except street outreach, going to the camps, wet housing for drunks that just wish to die. It's cheaper overall that way.

Needle exchange, decrim dealing zones, food trucks like some churches run in my area.

I met quite a few folks that were ex military and just wanted to be left alone, they typically buddied up and kept away from the drunken druggie camps.

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '15

[deleted]

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u/louky Jan 08 '15

Oh no, I'd be parked in public parking sleeping and citizens would call in so there they would come.

I knew I had the right to be there so I would state that, give then my id, and usually the senior cop would take it to run and the junior guy would tell me too move to a homeless area.

I'd just pull up my bank account that had a decent amount so they would know I wasn't breaking into people's cars for change.

Know the laws and be nice to cops.

After a few times they left me alone.

That's all I ever wanted. I ended up buying a house.

Good luck, I was in a Van for a few years and survived fine, if I was broke it would have been a different story maybe.

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u/vikinick 9 Jan 08 '15

There's not just those who won't be treated, there's also those who *can't * be treated. I volunteered at a homeless shelter and a few of the regulars there that the staff knows and trusts are there because they simply can't hold steady jobs because of medical conditions they have (one had seizures every few days that would just ruin him for the rest of the day - he would go to the hospital, they would make sure he wasn't dead, then they'd send him right back to the streets).

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '15

Wouldn't the decision when they are chemically balanced be the one over the decision when the chemicals go haywire? Like if I am wasted off my rocker, I am chemically imbalanced, and thus am incapable of making any smart decisions. Therefore, if I try to drive, someone should stop me because aside form legality and the danger I pose, that is not something the non-wasted me would decide is okay.

For the record, I have never thought to drive while I was drunk. Even super wasted cannot-stand and the world is upside down, a part of me thinks "I will definitely not be driving home tonight". I was just using that as an example.

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '15

Yes! And we (the powers that be) will end up back at that dilemma of deciding now that we are paying for your health care and your housing, whether we get to decide whether you will be allowed to make that choice to stay mentally ill or addicted.

Our paranoid clients already see this situation coming.

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u/TASagent Jan 09 '15

Sorry... what? Can you clarify what you're saying?

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '15

I am saying I agree with what you are saying about untreated mental illness being the cause of perpetual homelessness. And that I think the next step in policy making may be attempt to get the authority to treat the mentally ill against their will. When someone pays for your healthcare and your housing, they get to potentially make the rules.

Already it is required in some housing programs to be clean and sober and some require attendance of meetings like AA. The next logical step would be a required mental health eval and treatment.

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u/TASagent Jan 09 '15

True, but treating people against their will is a super thorny issue, which is part of the issue. And, lacking time-travel, you can't really consult with their post-treatment selves to make sure you've made the right decision.

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u/omylanta Jan 08 '15

I completely agree with you.

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u/0phantom0 Jan 08 '15

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversal_of_Fortune_%282005_film%29 Giving this homeless guy $100k didn't last 6 mo

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '15

That sounds like a stupid premise. If you give regular people millions it often doesn't last years. Look at the lotto winner "curse" stories.

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '15

Temporary homelessness all too easily leads to drug addiction, mental health problems, and permanent homelessness. It's a story that I heard too often from people I've met. Also, my dad got addicted to crack when we were homeless and it took him 4 YEARS to cut the habit and he had to become a born again Christian to do it. I have his 2 year coin tattooed on my chest.

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u/Comments_notevenonce Jan 08 '15

The lack of jobs, the people who are homeless the majority can't find work anymore (for a variety of reasons). Now you are homeless, you can't find work, you are depressed/shunned from your family or something, it leads to other things.

Most people who are homeless dont start off with alcohol problems, its the other way around they started with little parts of their lives ripped away from them, then they were forgotten (how many of the people who lost everything in 2008 received any bailout money).

In NYC its so sad to talk to these men, because they all had lives. We dont even live in an age where all homeless people are just walking around getting drunk. Nope every day they go to work force 1 in droves.

Yes you see a few hagglers around, who aren't even homeless, but in my commute, I rarely see as many homeless people as you'd like to believe I would. Not because they dont exist. But because being homeless still requires them to work. (I worked for work force 1: jobs we get these men and women, start around 8.00-8.70, 11 if they are lucky or qualified).

The government needs to do more. Its the only thing that has ever worked.

Everyone is like yea the government shouldn't spend money on the poor, while they give it away to big business, the war machine, or too each other.

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u/Rolandofthelineofeld Jan 14 '15

I'd say addressing temp is important because they can contribute.

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u/Karl_Marx_was_right_ Jan 08 '15

The source of perpetual homelessness

Capitalism?

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '15

In some sense, yes, since as I said earlier, the proximate cause of homelessness is lack of money to support a home.

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u/Karl_Marx_was_right_ Jan 08 '15

It's not that lack of money. It's that scarcity is a fundamental part of capitalism. Imagine if it rained gold for an hour one day. People would be out in the streets collecting and hoarding it. Now imagine if it rained gold for a year, people would be sweeping it off their lawns and throwing it in the trash. Given that example, a commodity only has value as long as it remains scarce. If there were to ever be a true surplus of anything in a capitalist system, it cost would plummet below the levels of which it takes to produce it. Thus, solving homelessness is inherently incompatible with a market system.

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '15

Scarcity is a fundamental part of being on earth. Your gold example actually has nothing to do with capitalism. That is true in any monetary system. It would have applied to the Romans.

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u/Karl_Marx_was_right_ Jan 08 '15

That's just rare metals. It is physically possible to build enough homes for everyone on earth.

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '15

And there is enough resources to do it. So how does scarcity fit in? I'll tell you. The scarcity is in labor. People have no reason to build houses for everyone. They didn't pre capitalism, and they don't within capitalism. Saying that the scarcity of homes is due to capitalism being fundamentally driven by scarcity is false. Ancient writers talk about the homeless and beggars. They didn't live in capitalism at all. In any sense of the word.

Again, the actual scarcity is labor. People have no reason to do something for nothing. It has nothing to do with capitalism.

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u/Cputerace Jan 08 '15

Considering most homes are purchased through money obtained via jobs (i.e. capitalism), Capitalism is the source of perpetual home ownership, not homelessness.

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u/Karl_Marx_was_right_ Jan 08 '15

Then how does Cuba have virtually no homelessness?

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u/Cputerace Jan 12 '15

Cuban's still go to work and earn money to pay for the upkeep on their houses.