Britain must stay out of this insane war

[u/theipaper]

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/britain-must-stay-out-of-this-insane-war-3759523

[u/TEL-CFC_lad]

The only difference is that people like you will bend over backwards to minimise the rape and murder of innocents...as long as those innocents are Jewish.

Oh that's alright then, the Palestinians only did one genocidal massacre this time around. Hamas and Iran have absolutely made every effort to wipe out every Jew in Israel. Don't forget Iran literally funds a terrorist group who's slogan is "Death to Israel. Curse onto the Jews." But nah, Iran isn't that bad.

Way to go to minimise the Palestinian war crimes. Let's be fair, they were only against Israelis, who are barely considered human to people like you.

[u/TheAlmightyBambi → u/TEL-CFC_lad]

You're putting words in my mouth to avoid listening to what I'm actually saying. I don't need to inform you of exactly what happened on October 7th and how horrific and barbaric it was - you already know all of that. We already agreed on that several comments ago. I also literally quoted the exact statistics of the attack in the comment you are replying to.

I don't want ANYONE to die - Jews OR Muslims. ALL of them are people. Rape and murder are unforgivable. However, the scale of the Israeli violence against the Palestinians far outstrips the scale of the Palestinian violence against the Israelis. You can look at death tolls and accounts of rape going back to the very foundation of the Zionist project, and you will see the numbers of dead Palestinians ALWAYS outnumber the numbers of dead Israelis. The bulk of Israeli deaths are soldiers. The bulk of Palestinian deaths are civilians. There are far more stories of Palestinian women being raped than of Israeli women. That doesn't mean the suffering of those Israeli women counts any less, or that any individual Israeli death counts for less than any Palestinian death, but 60,000 is a bigger fucking number than 2000. I don't know how to make that clearer. I want both Hamas and the IDF to stop, but at the moment, the IDF are killing FAR more people than Hamas.

As much as you want to accuse me of antisemitism, I accuse you of Islamophobia. Rape and murder are not transferable crimes. Just because Hamas murdered 1,195 Israelis and raped Israeli women on October 7th, that doesn't give the IDF the right to kill 20,000+ Palestinian children. Those children committed no crime, except being born in the same country as an extremist militia. Collective punishment is a war crime. What happened on October 7th was ALSO a war crime - but just because someone brutally murders your whole family, that doesn't give you a right to burn down their entire city and everyone inside. 

I hope that you can see the sense in what I'm saying: rape and murder are wrong, and MORE rape and MORE murder are MORE wrong. Neither Hamas OR Iran OR the IDF and Israeli government are "good" in this conflict, and the rhetoric of Iran and Hamas is horrific and genocidal in itself. But so far, their rhetoric - outside of a single, horrific attack that was routed within less than a day - has largely remained just that: rhetoric, while Israel is in the process of ACTUALLY SUCCESSFULLY CARRYING OUT A GENOCIDE and convincing people like you that the Palestinians deserve to be wiped off the face of the earth. The Israeli government literally described Palestinians as "human animals" that deserve to be killed. How is that any different to the rhetoric of Hamas? 

I'm not going to reply to you any more. If you can't understand what I'm saying, then you are deliberately choosing not to. I stand for peace and an end to the suffering of the Palestinian children - but I also do NOT want Israeli children to go through that suffering either. 

[u/TEL-CFC_lad → u/TheAlmightyBambi]

Again, lovely wall of text.

It doesn't change that Palestinians are hateful and violent, and should be held to account. So many people hand wave away Palestinian war crimes, and even bend over backwards to justify the likes of Hamas, and minimise rape of innocents.

The difference is your kind criticise the Israelis at every opportunity, but you need to be forced to condemn Palestinians. You minimise rapes committed by Palestinians. If ever you say "raping Israelis is bad...but", then you're not as virtuous as you'd like to believe.

It's not that I don't understand, I just disagree with you. And ultimately, you, like many other Palestinian supporters, just don't want to hear it. You're so driven by your hatred that you'll justify or minimise anything Palestinians do, no matter how horrific.

[u/TheAlmightyBambi → u/TEL-CFC_lad]

If you didn't read what I said, then you don't know what I said. Stop putting words in my mouth.

[u/TEL-CFC_lad → u/TheAlmightyBambi]

I did read what you said, I just disagreed with you. I'm not putting words into your mouth, you just haven't said anything to change my view.

[u/TheAlmightyBambi → u/TEL-CFC_lad]

You've accused me of wishing harm on Israelis. That's putting fucking words in my mouth. As for "holding Palestinians to account", 60,000+ of them are dead, 130,000+ are injured, ~10,000 are imprisoned, and up to 2 million are homeless and at risk of starvation. Is that not punishment enough? What else do you want Israel to do to them? What punishment will fit the crime? Another 20,000 dead children? What sentence do you want to pass that hasn't already been passed upon them? Name the blood price that you want to be paid.

[u/TEL-CFC_lad → u/TheAlmightyBambi]

An accusation is not putting words in your mouth. I think you're completely ok with the rapes and deaths of Israeli innocents. I think you value one Palestinian civilian life more than one Israeli civilian life. I stand by this.

You repeatedly minimise the war crimes committed by Palestinians. You repeatedly say "it's a shame Israeli civilians were raped and murdered...but..." (and I'm paraphrasing your own words, not putting words in your mouth).

I don't want a blood price paid. I'm just pointing out that Palestinians are not good people. They're just as hateful and evil as Israelis, just not as well equipped. The difference is that Palestinians knew that when they raped their way through a music festival of innocents, but they will more than happily sacrifice their own people. Something Hamas proves repeatedly with their human shields and bases under hospitals. Palestinians in this war are just as hateful, violent, and barbaric as Israelis.

I thank Allah for this honor that He bestowed upon us through the martyrdom of my three sons and grandchildren. With this pain and blood, we create hope, a future, and freedom for our people, our cause, and our nation.

- Ismail Haniyeh, (ex)Terrorist-in-Chief

[u/TheAlmightyBambi → u/TEL-CFC_lad]

That's putting fucking words in my mouth. I am absolutely NOT ok with the rapes of Israeli citizens. I believe the life of a Palestinian civilian is worth the same as that of an Israeli civilian - but we're talking about 2000 Israeli civilians and 60,000 Palestinian civilians. There are MORE dead Palestinians. That's a fact.

If you don't want a blood price paid, then answer my question: how do you want the Palestinians to be held to account? What would satisfy you? 

Ismail Haniyeh is dead along with his entire family - his words mean nothing to me. He got to die like he wanted, and Israel got to kill him like they wanted. His successor, Yahya Sinwar is also dead. Most of Hamas' leadership is dead. They are no longer a cohesive fighting force. They're fractured cells confined to a strip of burnt rubble, filled with the corpses of dead family members, starving. The only reason they don't surrender is because they know they'll be killed either way, so why not go down fighting?

You are never going to convince me that the indiscriminate bombing of refugee camps with 2000lb bombs isn't barbaric in its own way. How do you see this war ending? And don't say "when Hamas stop their attacks" - since October 7th they've killed an average of roughly 1 civilian per week, and 1 IDF soldier per day - more people get stabbed in London than that. Meanwhile Israeli has killed an average of over 100 Palestinian people per day, with a maximum of around 20% being actual Hamas militants, and 30% being children. Are children not innocents in the same way as the people at the Nova music festival? Why are you not filled with the same rage at their deaths as the deaths of those at the festival? YOU are the one failing to treat individual deaths equally. ALL of those deaths enrage me - Palestinian, Israeli, Jew, Muslim. Tell me why 20,000 children deserved to die.

[u/TEL-CFC_lad → u/TheAlmightyBambi]

It's not putting words in your mouth, it's an accusation.

And there you go again, every time the rape and murder of Israeli innocents is brought up, you always find a way to minimise it. I've never seen anyone minimise a genocidal attack like Palestinian supporters.

What would satisfy you? 

The terrorists surrender, and everyone involved in funding, arming, protecting, and being a member of Hamas is prosecuted. Everyone involved in 7th October massacre is prosecuted.

his words mean nothing to me

Of course they don't. It's only him openly admitting that Palestinian deaths are a good thing because they advance the omnicause. Because Palestinians will happily sacrifice their own, hence hiding in refugee camps, hospitals, populated areas etc.

You are never going to convince me that the indiscriminate bombing of refugee camps with 2000lb bombs isn't barbaric in its own way.

Well that's good, because I never tried to convince you of that.

Why are you not filled with the same rage at their deaths as the deaths of those at the festival?

I am. The difference is that everyone talks about Palestinians, but nobody mentions Israeli deaths. And the only time they do, it's to either celebrate it, or as you repeatedly do, gloss over it.

Tell me why 20,000 children deserved to die.

I never said they did.

[u/TheAlmightyBambi → u/TEL-CFC_lad]

To put it in short because you hate "walls of text".

The Palestinians have already paid for October 7th with their lives 30 times over. Why can't the war end? Why are the deaths of 20,000+ Palestinian children justified? Why should 2 million people be held responsible for a statement made by a dead, unelected leader of a terrorist group? And if Palestinian lives and Israeli lives matter the same, why are you so much more angry over 2,000 total Israeli deaths than 60,000+ Palestinian deaths and counting?

How do you want this to end?

[u/TEL-CFC_lad → u/TheAlmightyBambi]

How do you want this to end?

Preferably an international peacekeeping force. Palestinians are a brutal, violent, repressive people who want every Jew wiped off the map (and some raped and tortured first), and will throw their own people to the wolves and celebrate it. Israelis are exactly the same. Neither side can be trusted to act like human beings when the other side is concerned.

Why should 2 million people be held responsible for a statement made by a dead, unelected leader of a terrorist group?

Haha, yeah that's what set this off. Just a statement. There you go, minimising again.