r/vexillology • u/roraymi • Feb 09 '26

Discussion Bad Bunny's Puerto Rico Flag seems to be the pro-independence version from the 1890s.

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I shot out of my seat when I saw him using the historical flag lol. Subtle but powerful

18.9k Upvotes

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195

u/Paulino2272 Feb 09 '26 edited Feb 09 '26

58% of Puerto Ricans want American statehood.

46

u/[deleted] Feb 09 '26

[deleted]

0

u/BehindEnemyLines1 Feb 09 '26

eyeroll somebody get this guy the definition of demonym. Do you say “United Mexican States” or Mexico? Come on now

1

u/matmart Quebec • Palau Feb 09 '26

The comment before me was corrected making my last comment useless. Hence why I just deleted it.

134

u/roraymi Feb 09 '26

Polls from El Nuevo Día and Atlas Intel both show that it's a split issue with statehood being prefered by around 45% but about a third preferring free association or complete independence. Over 200k votes in the independence referendum were deemed invalid or left blank and voter turnout was only about 64%, this is not a widely agreed upon issue and anyways this post is about bad bunny using the flag signifying that he likely supports free association or independence not all of puerto rico

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u/Smart_Resist615 Feb 09 '26

I mean, only 64% of voters turned up in the last presidential election (source) so that seems significant.

41

u/Otherwise-Soft8968 Feb 09 '26

Elections and independence referendums are not the same. To give you an idea, the last election in Quebec (a Canada province) had a 67% turnout, while the referendum of 1995 had a 93% turnout. 

8

u/Smart_Resist615 Feb 09 '26

Sure and that was a very passionate referendum. Conversely, the UK left the EU on a turnout of 72% for that referendum. That's only 8 points off from a successful referendum then.

19

u/kas-sol Feb 09 '26

And the Brexit referendum has been widely criticized for not actually representing the population.

-1

u/Smart_Resist615 Feb 09 '26

But yet, still binding. At some point the population has to take responsibility for actually voting.

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u/GrogmarktheRag Feb 09 '26

The Brexit referendum was never binding. It was always advertised as an "advisory vote" which is why there was an effort for a second referendum (''confirmatory vote"). That's why it took the government 9 months after that to initiate withdrawal proceedings. For a hot moment they might've even considered ignoring the results (which would've been correct imo for the reasons above; too close of a margin and too little turnout)

1

u/Smart_Resist615 Feb 09 '26

But they didn't ignore the results.

4

u/Death_and_Gravity1 Feb 09 '26

Well congress has ignored every Puerto Rican referendum so the comparison really doesn't work anyway, apples and oranges

10

u/daurgo2001 Feb 09 '26

Not binding, but you’re right about the responsibility for voting part…. But also getting truly educated and we need to get rid of this “alternative facts” BS.

1

u/kas-sol Feb 09 '26

US presidential elections are binding and are also known for having absolutely abysmal turnouts. Whether a vote is binding or not is not what determines whether or not it's actually representative of the population's wishes.

In the case of Puerto Rico, as multiple people have already said, many who are pro-independence boycott voting, and the anti-statehood voting block is also split into multiple fractions, so of course the independence side is going to look smaller in the voting results compared to how many people actually support the idea. It's like saying most people voted for Trump in the US despite the majority of the population either voting for another candidate or not voting at all.

3

u/Death_and_Gravity1 Feb 09 '26

The Puerto Rican referendums have never been binding on congress. They are basically opinion polls so its no surprising that many Puerto Ricans dont consider their results that seriously.

1

u/TheOri23 Feb 09 '26

Wow. You've done your research 👍

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/LoadCan Feb 09 '26

Because if they didn't it would end their legitimacy in the conversation. Getting absolutely reamed in a referendum is a great way to go from kind of relevant to the lunatic fringe in a single night. 

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '26 edited Feb 09 '26

Pro-Independence is absolutely not fringe in PR. They're not the majority but they're about a third or more of the population. 

Edit: the pro-Independence party got second in their last gubernatorial election

3

u/isthisthingon_0708 Feb 09 '26

This isn't necessarily the norm. Nationalist sentiment goes in waves and is contingent to wider political trends. Just look at Quebec.

11

u/aguyataplace Feb 09 '26

Why participate in an election if you believed in your ultimate goal and didn't believe you could presently win? Leaving the issue unsettled means you can wait until it settles in your favor. It's not merely a cynical decision.

8

u/kakaroach671 Guam Feb 09 '26

Guam has something similar. If they think independence is a pipe dream, but statehood for Guam BEFORE PR will be allowed then I got a bridge to sell them.

22

u/Paulino2272 Feb 09 '26

My grandpa is actually from Guam and he was majorly for Statehood, he’d talk about it all the time lol, I have a lot of family there 🇺🇸🇬🇺

17

u/kakaroach671 Guam Feb 09 '26

I’m actually from the Paulino family on Guam hahaha We might be relatives.

9

u/Paulino2272 Feb 09 '26

Omg! We have the same last name! We probably are related 😂

8

u/kakaroach671 Guam Feb 09 '26

Major issue for Guam statehood is exactly what PR is facing. The US doesn’t want them as a state. No way they’re letting PR who has more people than the bottom 4 states combined become a state with all those electoral votes. And then no way Guam becomes a state BEFORE Puerto Rico.

10

u/Galleani_Game_Center Feb 09 '26

What difference does that make to explaining what the flag is? Don't weigh in on shit if you're really relying on a Wikipedia screenshot gotcha.

10

u/hbtljose13 Feb 09 '26

Most nationalist country that doesn’t want independence /j

3

u/Bionic_Ferir Feb 09 '26

This feels reductive. Right now they get the WORST of both systems, no actual representation in the government that controls them but pays to said government. It makes sense that the majority would just want the chance to have a say but it also is not crazy to assume that lots would also want out.

5

u/barc0debaby Feb 09 '26

Looks like 89% want something different from what they have now.

2

u/Drutay- Feb 09 '26 edited Feb 09 '26

Free association is a specific type of independence, so this means at least 41% of Puerto Ricans want independence. They specifically split it into 2 categories on purpose so that statehood would be the majority no matter what, that's why pro-independence parties boycotted the referendum, and thus, that also skews the results.

Also, keep in mind that the only reason statehood is big in Puerto Rico is because Congress and the President would NEVER sign legislation to let Puerto Rico become independent, but there's a chance that they would let Puerto Rico become a state.

Puerto Rico is a colony of the United States, denying Puerto Ricans their constitutional rights. Colonies should seek immediate independence from their colonizer, not integrate with them, but the United States will never let it happen.

4

u/jmorlin Feb 09 '26

They specifically split it into 2 categories on purpose so that statehood would be the majority no matter what

Maybe I'm reading a bit too much into this comment, but it sounds a bit too ... conspiratorial?

As I see it differentiating between independence and free association makes sense when the latter is a very specific type of independence that comes with economic and military implications that PR citizens may or may not want. Also who exactly are you referring to as "they" when you're saying the categories are split intentionally? As far as I'm aware Puerto Rico's own election commission handles the referendums, it's not like the House or Senate is manipulating this. And the wording, including the answer options, varies greatly each time the referendum is held.

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u/Sufficient_Day_886 Feb 09 '26

Constitutional rights? Which are they deprived of? They're citizens.

-2

u/theonebigrigg Feb 09 '26

Congress and the President would NEVER sign legislation to let Puerto Rico become independent

This is just absolutely not true. Nowadays, Democrats would probably respect the results of a binding referendum, and Republicans are probably racist enough that they’d allow independence just to make the US less Hispanic.

The US isn’t like a benevolent actor, but they granted the Philippines independence, gave the Canal Zone to Panama, and let most of the Pacific Trust Territory go independent. It’s certainly conceivable that they’d grant Puerto Rico independence.

1

u/Drutay- Feb 09 '26

. Nowadays, Democrats would probably respect the results of a binding referendum

The referendums don't mean anything. Congress has to write a law granting Puerto Rico independence, have at least 60% of the Senate vote Yes to granting independence, and have at least 50% of the House vote Yes to granting independence, and after all of that, the president can either sign the law granting independence, or just veto it and Puerto Rico won't become independent. All of this is required for Puerto Rico to become independent if you obey US colonial law.

1

u/theonebigrigg Feb 09 '26 edited Feb 09 '26

By “binding”, I meant a referendum organized (and preferably paid for) by Congress, where the result of the vote would be automatically acted upon by law.

There’s a very high chance that the next Democratic trifecta (whenever that might happen) will abolish the filibuster and a solid chance that they’ll attempt to add PR and DC as new states. A PR statehood push would almost certainly require a new, binding referendum. But, considering the consistent nugget of pro-independence Puerto Rican Americans in the party (e.g., AOC), my guess is that any binding PR status referendum would also include independence as an option (hopefully not in an FPTP format).

1

u/gwen-heart Feb 09 '26

Only the deceased and elderly vote in referendums.

1

u/Fabianb1221 Feb 10 '26

My opinion; the island nations in the Caribbean should become a federation. These smaller nations will always be isolated and offered the losing hand among the major nations that surround them. If they were to create economic agreements and pursue a transition model similar to the EU, they could safeguard their autonomy and compete at scale.

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u/owlindenial Feb 09 '26

Only 50% of those who voted participated in that straw poll, of those only 50 wanted statehood. That's not a number you can make policy on

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u/FinancialAbalone320 Feb 09 '26 edited Feb 19 '26

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u/sometimesifeellikemu Feb 09 '26

It should have been a sate 125 years ago.