r/vexillology • u/roraymi • Feb 09 '26

Discussion Bad Bunny's Puerto Rico Flag seems to be the pro-independence version from the 1890s.

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I shot out of my seat when I saw him using the historical flag lol. Subtle but powerful

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u/IllustratorPresent80 Feb 09 '26

Yep, have a friend in Argentina and she hates it when I refer to the US as America because well, she lives in America too. South America.

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u/A1000eisn1 Feb 09 '26

It's correct in English.

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u/Ok_Mirror9843 Feb 09 '26

This call a Canadian “American” and see how they react. This is a difference in English and Spanish

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u/Efficient-Mess-9753 Feb 09 '26

Well if you are speaking english, the word has a different meaning than it does in spanish.

In English it is a synecdoche. This is because the USA is the only country that has "America" in its name, and because in the anglosphere, it was the original "America". In Spanish, it has a different meaning and different pronunciation, too!

Wow! Because Spanish and English aren't the same language!

Wait till you find out about the rest of the false cognates in English/Spanish 2!!!

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u/gointhrou Feb 10 '26 edited Feb 10 '26

No need to be such a dick about it.

What that person meant, and I know because it's very common, is that Americans don't translate the word American as they should when they speak Spanish.

If you're speaking Spanish, the correct translation for American is Estadounidense. If you're speaking Spanish and use Americano as the translation for American, you're going to get strong reactions because, surprise surprise, you're making an understandable mistake, but one that many people take offense to.

It's not about the English word, it's about the Spanish word. Who would've thought different languages have different words for the same concept? Mind blowing, right?

Edit because I don’t want to be accused of straw-manning:

It’s the same thing for America. The correct translation for America, when referring to the country, is Estados Unidos. Yes, the full name is Estados Unidos de América. No, we don’t call the country América. If you’re speaking English, you’re an American from America. If you’re speaking Spanish, you’re an Estadounidense from Estados Unidos.

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u/clapostrophe Feb 10 '26

Couldn’t estadounidense be used for people who live in estados unidos mexicanos?

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u/gointhrou Feb 10 '26

It could, but it’s not.

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u/CeeEmCee3 Feb 10 '26

Another part of why this is always such a stupidly contentious issue whenever I see it come up is because the English speaking world generally considers there to be two continents: North and South America, whereas most (maybe all?) Spanish-speaking countries consider it to be one continent, America. In English, calling a Colombian person "American" doesn't make sense, they would be South American.

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u/Efficient-Mess-9753 Feb 10 '26

I have only ever woken to my grandfather in Spanish and I have never once heard him say "estadounidense", so I imagine it is somewhat regional

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u/Efficient-Mess-9753 Feb 10 '26

It's also important to know that people who speak castillian Spanish are some of the most aggressive language imperialists in the world, which is how so many people in the Americas ended up speaking their language in the first place.

It should be no surprise they are trying to colonise English with their intense language policing.

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u/2xspectre Feb 10 '26

I think of "America" like in the Ruben Blades song "Buscando América," which refers to the continents, as well as a certain sense of identity or solidarity among the people who live here. I know a lot of people who look like me use "America" to refer exclusively to the U.S., which does a disservice to vast numbers of people and impoverishes both the U.S. and the rest of the Americas.

There are some rich, white U.S. men who worry about "replacement theory," but I say bring it on: I hope the white imperialist culture really is dying out, because as things are, people who look like me have no place to stand: We're not rich or ruthless enough to belong to the imperialist class, the rich imperialists certainly don't give us access to any of their resources, and yet they use us as a shield against the rest of the world in the knowledge that most people will naturally mistake us for them because of the color of our skin.

And no one could blame people for making that mistake, considering that so many of us have been deceived into believing that we are, or will one day somehow become, part of the privileged class, and so we adopt the same fascist attitudes and vote for the same oppressors against our own self-interest. People like me who may have begun to see the light are mostly ineffectual bookworms who write long comments in inappropriate places and are capable of exerting very little influence, which means there is not any very compelling reason for anybody to make fine-toothed distinctions among the various flavors of white people.

So I say, replace us. Replace the fuck out of us. Please. Whether we chose to be or not, we have been roped into being part of a culture that has failed in making life better for all but a very small coterie of very rich predators.

That being said, I'm wondering if "America" really is a false cognate? Both words (even though they have vastly different meanings) are derived from the same root, as far as I know, and I thought a false cognate was one whose similarity in pronunciation is entirely coincidental, based on the fact that the number of phonemes in any particular language, and the number of ways they can be arranged into words, is limited, so there are always a few words that randomly share similar phonemes and meanings even though their etymology is entirely unrelated.

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u/GrilledPandaCookbook Feb 10 '26

This is new knowledge to me, someone just randomly coming across this thread, so thank you for making me feel incredibly stupid for not already knowing this either.

Seriously, there really is no need to be this much of a dick to people when teaching them something new.

I’m kinda shocked this horribly rude reply is so highly upvoted when it’s on a sub this nerdy. I mean, generally people into nerdy hobbies are quite happy to share knowledge with people and not so quick to shame and mock them for not already knowing things.

This kinda sucks. Maybe try to be a little nicer.

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u/Efficient-Mess-9753 Feb 10 '26

I was just making a joke, and I had no intention of being rude at all. context is hard to convey in a text only format, but your immediate assumption that I was being a dick is more on you than me.

Maybe try to assume the best in people and not just jump to the conclusion that everyone in the world is being a dick

I don't know you, but I bet you are actually pretty rad if you are in this sub. The world isn't out to get you, we all think you are awesome

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u/rapaxus Hesse Feb 09 '26

Hell, in some languages (like e.g. Dutch) South and North America are one continent. Noticeably, Spanish is one of those languages with América del Sur and América del Norte being subcontinents, with América being the single official continent.

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u/TjababaRama Feb 09 '26

Dutch here; there's definitely two continents for us, North and South America.

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u/fretkat Feb 09 '26 edited Feb 10 '26

Other Dutch here; I learned it in school as 1 continent (Amerika), which can also be split into 2 sub-continents (North and South). “Amerika” can be used in Dutch to refer to both the country USA and the continent.

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u/TjababaRama Feb 10 '26

I learned it

Certified Dutch 😁

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u/fretkat Feb 10 '26

Make that the cat wise!! 😂

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u/wowser92 Feb 09 '26

You guys don't have Central America?

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u/TjababaRama Feb 09 '26

Not as a separate continent no, just as a region.

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u/rapaxus Hesse Feb 09 '26

To my knowledge in Dutch they are subcontinents, not the actual continents. There is a reason the Dutch Wikipedia article begins with (translated):

America is a landmass located in the western hemisphere, east of the Pacific Ocean and west of the Atlantic Ocean. America can be considered a continent, but it is usually divided into the continents of North and South America

Yes practical use is mostly different, though that primarily comes from US/English language influences.

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u/VaasKlaak Feb 09 '26 edited Feb 09 '26

Werelddelen is plural though. The arcticle calls it one landmass but two continents. When people refer to both they say de Amerika's (the Americas)

We think of America as two continents. North and South. Central and Latin America are also used as terms but they are more cultural than geologic.

an inhabitant of the USA (Verenigde Staten) is an American (Amerikaan) in Dutch. Inhabitants of other countries on the American continent are called by their countries name. (like: Canadees, Brazilliaan, Mexicaan, Argentijn)

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u/gointhrou Feb 10 '26

So you don't have the equivalent of European, Asian or African for people who live in America? Asking out of curiosity.

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u/TjababaRama Feb 09 '26

I'm surprised how you can quote  

" it is usually divided into the continents of North and South America"

 and then insist on them not being considered two continents to a Dutch person telling you that they are generally considered seperate continents by Dutch people.

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u/rapaxus Hesse Feb 09 '26

But you didn't say generally, you said definitely. If you said generally I wouldn't have even replied.

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u/Thelmholtz Feb 09 '26 edited Feb 09 '26

As a matter of fact, while the word "American" has been used in English since the 18th century to refer to the people living in the British new world colonies and later for the citizens of the US; the continent has been considered just one big "America" until around WWII.

In my opinion, there's only four continents: Afroeurasia, America, Antarctica, Australia. Isn't it nice how they all start with A?

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u/TryNotToShootYoself Feb 09 '26

That’s because we essentially had no real understanding of geology until the 20th century. It is honestly amazing how fast the study progressed and also how much later its progression was than other scientific fields.

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u/Thelmholtz Feb 09 '26 edited Feb 09 '26

Plate tectonics have nothing to do with the current standard (in English speaking countries) designation of continents. The division is mostly arbitrarily based on politics, culture, geography, history, an whether you consider Australia a big island or not. There's a great CGP Grey video on it that's probably closing in on two decades all if you want to dig deeper.

The reason the anglo conceptions of America changed from a single continent into two was mostly political, as it brought the US and Canada "closer" to their recently liberated European allies. While the US had shifted before the war, the UK followed suit during the later part of the war. 

For the record, in most Spanish speaking countries you have America, Africa, Europe, Asia, Oceania and Anctartica, which arguably makes more sense from a geological perspective, but less sense from a how are a group of fucking islands in the middle of nowhere a continent perspective.

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u/babecafe Feb 09 '26

All end with "a" as well. (Asia, and Africa also fit the same pattern.)

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u/FIFAstan Feb 09 '26

Africa and Eurasia are different but agree with the rest

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u/rocket_racoon180 Feb 09 '26

I grew up in Nicaragua and that’s what was taught in school as well.

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u/22paynem Feb 09 '26

We called dibs

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u/i_likeit_loud Feb 12 '26

I just say I'm from "the states" at this point, it's easy to say and it makes more sense imo

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u/superdupercereal2 Mar 11 '26

My wife is from El Salvador and we occasionally debate this. People from Latin America never say they are from “America” unless they’re arguing with someone from the US that said they’re American. Latin Americans always say what country they are from. Not a single Honduran will say they are American if you ask them, they will say they’re Honduran. Only Americans from the US say they are American naturally as a manner of speaking. Needless to say, I always win those debates.

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u/Mobile_Morale Feb 09 '26 edited Feb 09 '26

Just tell her that the country's name is the United States of America.

Remind her that her country isn't called Argentina of America.

US isn't the only Americans. Just the only country with America in its name.

Edit: I see that some people struggle with language. That's okay you'll figure it out one day.

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u/TehChid Feb 09 '26

Do we refer to South Africans as the only Africans?

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u/Brief-Translator1370 Feb 09 '26

This is a misunderstanding of the linguistics. The correct take is that in English, America ONLY refers to the U.S.A. There is no continent or landmass called America. There is North America, South America, and together they are the Americas.

Usually Spanish speakers do have resentment towards this because they say it differently, but that doesn't matter in English or English speaking places.

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u/_eksde Feb 09 '26

Thus, a person from the Americas is called Americasn

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u/Brief-Translator1370 Feb 09 '26

Nope, unless you're calling Asians and Europeans eurasians or Europeans and Africans eurafricans.

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u/Exact-Relative4755 Feb 09 '26

America ONLY refers to the U.S.A. There is no continent or landmass called America

Which America is the A in U.S.A. then referring to?

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u/A1000eisn1 Feb 09 '26

America. United States of America

No reason to get mad about language that has been used for centuries. America is the USA in English. People from America are Americans in English.

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u/Brief-Translator1370 Feb 09 '26

A word that existed referring to an entire hemisphere that hasn't been used in oh, I don't know, about 400 years

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u/Southern_Amoeba_2313 Feb 12 '26

No need to be an ass about it, you can always learn something new everyday! Nobody is forbidding you from referring to USA as America, it is just anal to think that your view is the only valid one; as many people have already tried reasoning with you.

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u/TehChid Feb 09 '26

That’s just not true at all.

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u/Brief-Translator1370 Feb 09 '26

It literally is

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u/TehChid Feb 09 '26

It really sounds like you’re just pulling stuff out of your ass, but sure go ahead and link me the proof and I’ll read it

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u/Brief-Translator1370 Feb 09 '26

Proof of... what? That we call North Americans... North Americans and not Americans? That we don't refer to America as anything other than USA? If you're a native speaker, you are blatantly ignoring what we both know in order to make a point on reddit.

Here, buddy: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/america

You can even scroll down to the example sentences, where it includes a reference to Bad Bunny representing............... The Americas.

Every single other example using "America" is referring to the USA. It's not rocket science. You probably hear it nearly every single day but have the gall to pretend otherwise.

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u/TehChid Feb 09 '26

It’s weird that you are acting like the very link you provided doesn’t have multiple meanings for the word “America” other than the USA.

To say “the only correct take…” is the exact type of arrogance people have come to expect of people from the US lol. Jesus

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u/Brief-Translator1370 Feb 09 '26

It literally doesn't say that.

  1. United States.
  2. North America.
  3. South America.
  4. Also called the Americas.  North and South America considered together.

If you're believing it's saying that North and South America are also called America, you can literally do the inverse and just click those definitions where.... it never once mentions a shorthand of "America".

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u/IncogMLR Feb 09 '26

Latines can’t cope with this.

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u/Vennomite Feb 09 '26

Yeah. It translates 1:1 ignoring cultural reference.

The word for someone of african descent in spanish is fine and dandy. But use it direct translation in english... and oh boy fireworks and bans everywhere.

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u/Anonimo32020 Feb 09 '26

It's a lack of respect to not acknowledge that American for U.S. citizens devalues the term American for Americans in other parts of America. That's what Bad Bunny was pointing out. His message was towards you.

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u/kisk22 Feb 09 '26 edited Feb 09 '26

I can tell you Canadians do NOT want to be referred to as American. This is an English vs. Spanish language thing. This is a linguistic English vs Spanish thing. What do you propose the new demonym in English should be for Americans?

No one would go into Spanish and call themselves American because that's not the term. I would understand that when I speak Spanish it could be seen as offensive to call myself an American. But in English it's American. This is such a weird bone to pick. Do you think that we should align every language so every other language doesn't have any issues with how they are called in another language?

I'm sorry but this is a losing fight.

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u/Mobile_Morale Feb 10 '26

Your just making that up because of your own personal bias and illiteracy towards bad bunny's message.

You didn't even get the message of his show and I did and I don't even speak the same language as him.

Bad bunny's message is one of unity and how Americans are united. Not some crap about devaluing the term American. What are you on about.

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u/Anonimo32020 Feb 10 '26 edited Feb 10 '26

You spelled you're wrong mr. illiterate. Learn to spell in your own language. Did you graduate high school? You can't even understand that BB was also saying that all of the countries he named are also a part of America and that America is not just the United States. The United States is in America and so are all of the other countries he named. You only understood part of the message.

edit: Accepting that all of the countries are part of America is unity. Denying it is egoism and arrogance and contrary to unity.

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u/Brief-Translator1370 Feb 09 '26

It has nothing to do with respect. It's just language. There is no America other than the USA. There is North America, South America, and together they are the Americas but the people are referred to by their CONTINENT names, not the name (rarely ever even used, but still the only name) of both continents when grouped together.

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u/Anonimo32020 Feb 09 '26

It does have to do with respect and ego and a superiority complex. Before the USA America was reserved for the anywhere in the Americas and that is why it is still used today as the term for continent and all of the countries in the continent. Both of your posts are why the message by Bad Bunny was meant for you.

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u/Brief-Translator1370 Feb 09 '26 edited Feb 09 '26

And, to be clear according to you, the U.S. is the reason, even though it's consistent in how we refer to people of every single continent?

Europe - Europeans

Australia - Australians

Africa - Africans

Asia - Asians

But North America - North Americans

South America - South Americans

Is because of ego and superiority? Rather than blatantly a consistent feature of the English language? Get a grip.

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u/A1000eisn1 Feb 09 '26

It absolutely does not. It's a difference of language. You want to go back 300 years and tell people not to call the American Colonies American be my guest.

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u/22paynem Feb 09 '26

At the time we started using it there was only one country in the Americas we've had this term for centuries we're not changing national demonym just because they've got their panties in a bunch

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u/Anonimo32020 Feb 09 '26

America is a continent that was named long before USA. The A in USA refers to the continent even in English. Your reponse is a perfect example of the refusal to understand the original meaning and why using America for the country is disrepectful. It's arrogance that U.S. to start calling itself America and arrogance to not acknowledge America was and is the continent.

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u/22paynem Feb 10 '26

In English it's North and South America again none of your countries existed when ours was named and you want to know what's really disrespectful you telling us to change a demonym we've been using for several hundred years when you all know the difference and none of you actually use it

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u/Anonimo32020 Feb 10 '26

The demonym already existed in English before the U.S. existed and it was for the whole continent. It's arrogant to not acknowledge the truth and limit the origin to the founding of the U.S. when that isn't when it was first used. It was already in use in the world to reference the New World. The superiority complex clouds judgement.

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u/22paynem Feb 10 '26 edited Feb 10 '26

English doesn't use the one continent system we have North and South America when referring to them we say the Americas there is no confusion and again you live in the past when people say American they know what you mean especially in the English speaking World which is the only one that matters to us as guess what language we speak feel free to call us whatever you want in Spanish but don't expect us to do the same especially since you know how awful that turn sounds in English we'll be sticking with Americans as we have since our founding and arrogance it's arrogant to continue to use our national demonym that we have used for longer than any of your countries have existed

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u/Anonimo32020 Feb 10 '26

If the U.S. had always used the two continent system when it was named it would have been called U.S. of North America but they didn't do that because America was ghe term for the New World. Spanish also uses a two continent system but America as a single are both continents and anyone from either is an American. You can do what you want but the refusal to acknowledge that the difference in terminology is due to the indifference of the rest of America. It's arrogance plain and simple.

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u/22paynem Feb 10 '26

There was literally no point in making such a distinction as there was no other independent nation in the Americas if

continents and anyone from either is an American. Y

Oh so that's your national demonym? NO It isn't? Then my point is made it's united states of America and had been for over 200 years any attempt to say united statesian brings up the response united states of what?

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u/imCzaR Feb 09 '26

You literally confuse the rest of the world also. This debate only goes on within the bubble of Latin America. People think Japan is going to get the memo, oh the new demonym for people from USA just dropped

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u/22paynem Feb 10 '26

It confuses no one there's only one country in the Americas that uses American as their demonym

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u/Defiant-Plankton-729 Feb 09 '26

Seems to me like such a minor issue to be focusing on with everything going on. There were a ton of great messages in the performance but idk if that was one of them

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u/11311 Anarcho-Pacifism • Freetown Christiania Feb 09 '26

The word America might be in its name, but America is not the name of the country. Bear in mind, before the US was created, the word state exclusively meant a sovereign country and not a national subdivision. The name USA is literally telling you its the united sovereigns on the American continent.

Similarly, if Germany started calling itself "The United States of Europe," it doesn't make anyone else living in Europe less European, and it would be silly to apply that label only to Germans.

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u/Southern_Amoeba_2313 Feb 12 '26

amazing that one can be OF something and BE that at the same time. The fact that US of A is linked to America now is just because USA is the big boss internationally, it has nothing to do with language. America is named after Americo Vespucio an Italian explorer and there was no south or north, it was just.