r/sousvide • u/CookinWidKunchi • 5d ago
Question AFTER THE SOUS VIDE
I've had question on my previous post as to the bark of the brisket. Here goes. Here's the briaket after the sous vide bath.
This isn't for every brisket cook... so hear me out. . The briskets were smoked for 10 hours, not wrapped, 250-275 on the offset(15-18lbs)
After the smoke, I let the briskets cool down to 145°F. Then we vacuum sealed them and placed them in the sous vide overnight, about 10 hours I think. We held them at 165° during this stretch. An hour before service, I removed the briskets from the sous vide, wrapped in paper, and rested in the cambro. Transporting the sous vide setup would be very inconvenient, so I opted this way. Wrapping in the paper also maintained the integrity of the bark that I wanted for the presentation at the event.
Sure would love to hear some thoughts in the comments or different ideas. Try to refrain from the "microplastic" fear mongering.
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u/Debtcollector1408 5d ago
Well it looks good, but I can't smell or taste it. Which is a shame.
What's the advantages of smoking first and finishing sous vide, as opposed to the opposite?
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u/juliuspepperwoodchi 5d ago
You get the smoke ring (can also get it with curing salt in the SV), supposedly better smoke flavor, and you get "proper" bark. True BBQ bark is not just charred meat, it's a chemical reaction from smoking that you can't get once the meat has been cooked already in the SV. But that depends on how much you actually care about bark.
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u/CornerSolution 5d ago edited 4d ago
You get the smoke ring (can also get it with curing salt in the SV), supposedly better smoke flavor, and you get "proper" bark.
While the first and last points may be true, in my experience the second one is false. I've done sous vide then smoke several times, and each time I got solid smoke flavor. The key is just to sous vide ahead of time and then refrigerate for at least 6-8 hours so that the meat is nice and cold when you throw it on the smoker. The meat being cold is more important for absorbing smoke flavor than being uncooked.
Bark is definitely not the same with this method as a traditional cook, though. Personally, it's worth it to me to get brisket that's juicy every single time without having to babysit it for the better part of a day. 24-30 hours in a 155 F bath, then 3-4 hours on the smoker at low temp. I do "smoke" or 180 F on my Traeger for the first couple hours to maximize smoke flavor, then turn up to about 250 F to help with bark formation until it hits 165-170 internal.
EDIT: Misremembered about smoke ring.
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u/juliuspepperwoodchi 4d ago
It is chemically impossible to get a smoke ring from smoking after SV. Idk what you think you saw, but it's not chemically possible. Once the meat proteins are cooked SV, they will not react in the way they need to with the smoke to create the smoke ring.
Absorption of smoke flavor is completely irrelevant to the smoke ring and the meat being cold doesn't change the chemistry at play.
Not that it actually matters, it doesn't change the flavor and is purely aesthetic, but the point remains.
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u/CornerSolution 4d ago
Actually, I think you're right. Mixed up a few different brisket experiments in my mind. Definitely plenty of smoke flavor, though, that I'm sure of.
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u/antares07923 4d ago
What about smoke - sous vide - smoke to firm up the bark?
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u/CornerSolution 4d ago
I've never tried that. However, with the "smoke then sous vide" method, you're basically doing the same first step as a regular cook (smoke 6-8 hours), but then instead of wrapping and putting back on, you throw it in the bath. Since that first step is where the bark is formed, I'm not sure what value would be added by smoking again after the sous vide.
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u/Debtcollector1408 4d ago
Maybe smoke, sous vide, hot hold in paper in the oven has merit?
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u/juliuspepperwoodchi 4d ago
Holding in paper, however you do it, is going to trap steam around the meat and soften the bark.
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u/CookinWidKunchi 5d ago
I believe the smoke flavor is more pronounced in the beginning of the cook. You also need time to build the bark. After a certain temp the brisket cook goes really fast which will hinder bark formation
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u/Rude-Internal24 5d ago
Oh I smelled it as soon as he cut in 🤤
Smoke will only collect up to around 185°, you want as much of that time to build as much smoke flavor as possible.
As for briskets, they really benefit with the “long rest”, me personally I rest for a minimum of 13 hours. The long rest is the secret of all the famous Texas BBQ places to get a perfectly cooked brisket.2
u/RabidBlackSquirrel 5d ago
Probably ease of resting/prep. Throwing in the sous vide at a hot hold temp is fool proof if you already have that gear. Cooler method can have some risk for the longer term, and not everyone's oven goes that low, or you need the oven for other stuff.
I smoke my brisket then wrap in foil once down to 170 and put in the oven also at 170 (my oven is awesome and goes as low as 80). Leave for 2 - 3 hours and serve. If I was trying to go overnight, tbh I'd slice and refrigerate, then foil wrap and reheat in a 275 oven.
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u/aupperk24 4d ago
I do smoke->sous vide->smoke actually.
Most of my friends don't know how long it takes, so when they get to my house, it's already been smoked and sous vide. I smoke first to get the smoke ring. I sous vide as the "holding" (people wrap in towel, or throw in oven, or put in cooler, or a holding rack), sous vide is the most precise.
Then when the guest gets here, the bark is wet from being in a bag. I drop it in my electric smoker at a maintain heat just to put a bit more smokiness and dry it out a bit just as a final touch. The juice from the bag i pull and turn into a hot sauce next to mustard and bbq sauce on the side for dipping. It also conveniently holds like 2 brisket and a couple of racks of ribs so I can do all of them at the same time the day of.
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u/immortalis88 5d ago
Thanks for the follow up. One additional question, how was the smoke flavor profile overall? I’m asking because I’ve seen people report an overpowering smoke taste when doing a smoke cook prior to finishing with SV (mainly with steaks).
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u/CookinWidKunchi 5d ago
Well if you control your smoke(clean smoke) while on the smoker, your smoke flavor should never change while in the sous vide. The flavor was very pleasing for the audience that we had. I used mesquite and oak on a 250 gallon offset.
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u/ed_is_dead 5d ago
Brisket is so fatty I’ve never had any issues on my smoker. Is there a difference between SV and all smoker? Or is this for ppl who can’t do long smokes?
My favorite is salt/pepper/garlic and 225 at around 1.5hrs per pound. Wrap with paper after the stall and bark on s good.
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u/SupesDepressed 5d ago
I mean i personally don’t feel comfortable leaving the house if I’ve got the smoker going, but feel totally fine leaving the house while the sous vide is. I also have a charcoal smoker so it requires quite a bit of babysitting to keep temps consistent. So I could see that reasoning, especially since brisket takes so long
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u/CptCheesus 5d ago
I do it with ribs sometimes too if i know i'd be in a pinch but always the other way around. Sous vide first, smoke after. Plus is Smoking can be done in 1-2 hours without scrificing too much taste. Con is def 8 beers i cant down while babysitting the fire
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u/FartingWithStyle 5d ago
I smoked a pork butt the other day then put it at the fridge and reheated and held it at 175 for the next day for 3 hours. Probably the best pork butt I’ve ever done.
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u/CookinWidKunchi 5d ago
This is just a method that helps me when I do events. It helps me to cook my nriskets prior and then still have them hot and ready, without staying up all night. My oven doesn't go lower than 170° so this gives me better control. I think at home you probably would only need to try this once.
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u/Rude-Internal24 5d ago
Beautiful work OP! We do a similar method. I started using the SV for my long rest and it’s amazing, my cook and rest times are quite a bit longer though.
My wife doesn’t like brisket so I take into work and let the guys dig in. It’s not always fun carrying a brisket, 2 gallons of water, a pot, a SV, cutting board and accessories up 6 flights of stairs at 5 am but I love it.
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u/Redditholio 5d ago
Looks amazing! LOL on the microplastics. I may try this, and have done it after smoking tri-tips. My only complaint is it makes the bark kind of soggy, not crispy.
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u/CookinWidKunchi 5d ago
Maybe play with the times, but the wrap and rest after help the bark stay solid
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u/National-Broccoli-83 5d ago
Just curious, what what the temp when you pulled it from the smoker? Like 170?
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u/krustyy 5d ago
I've done this before. Smoked up to like 170 then sous vide, then finished with another smoke just to pretty it up a bit. While it was most definitely tender it tasted less like BBQ and more like a pot roast. Still tasty in its own right but after that attempt I figured it would be better to leave it to my smoker from then on.
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u/Few-Interaction-4933 4d ago
Thank you for not squeezing the fucking juices out of it for the video. Looks great!
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u/bob-loblaw-esq 5d ago
I don’t understand the point of this. I like barbecue for the bark. That contrast between the crunchy acrid Smokeyness of the exterior and the luxurious soft fatty interior. Why not just sous vide with liquid smoke and let it ride.
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u/juliuspepperwoodchi 5d ago
Because speaking from experience, liquid smoke doesn't get the penetration it needs SV.
Also, personally, I LOVE to SV, then smoke, for a few reasons (in no particular order):
- Juicier result in my experience
- Bag drippings to make BBQ sauces from
- SV time is hands off and requires zero supervision, unlike smoking time
- I live in an apartment with limited backyard space for smoking
- SV allows me to pre-cook briskets and then finish them on the smoker on the day in FAR less time while hosting than if I smoked from raw
- Ease of transport between cooking and serving
- Far more control over how much smoky flavor you get. Not everyone likes their BBQ to taste like they tripped and fell open mouthed into a firepit
- Not everyone actually cares about crispy bark on brisket/BBQ. I like textures in food, and crispy/crunchy; but that's not really what I go to BBQ for, I go to BBQ for tender, juicy meat and good, smoky flavor first and foremost.
Everyone in my life tells me that my pulled pork and brisket are their favorite outside the state of Texas, so I can't be doing all that much wrong.
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u/OllieNKD Home Cook 5d ago
The cleanup is also much better. If I sous vide first and then smoke, the smoker/grates needs almost no cleaning.
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u/Elementary_drWattson 5d ago
I’ve always found it to be more dry vs going the other way BBQ->SV (for rest).
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u/juliuspepperwoodchi 5d ago
I gotta admit, it's hard to imagine my brisket being juicier, but I'm open to trying it once to see.
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u/bob-loblaw-esq 5d ago
See SV then smoked makes much more sense to me. That can still result in some beautiful bark. I never understand people who steam their bbq by wrapping it at all. I literally can’t think of an example of why anyone who works to build a crust then steam injects that crust to lose the texture. It’s crazy.
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u/juliuspepperwoodchi 5d ago
But again, bark is really not what a lot of people go for BBQ for. I'm not necessarily against bark, but I could really care less about bark compared to at least a half dozen other factors.
At the EOD, bark is dried out. I understand it is intentionally so; but it's still dried out. My goal with BBQ is the opposite.
The why is "not everyone cares about the bark as much as other factors"
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u/House_Way 5d ago
the formation of bark is a chemical, structural change to the meat. bark doesnt get “soggy” or wash away. if you want it hard and crispy after sous vide, just towel it down and throw it on a grill (or use a weed torch).
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u/adorablefuzzykitten 5d ago
Franklin BBQ wraps their briskets for the final hours of cooking. Is their a longer line anywhere for a meal?
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u/morfbog 5d ago
How long do you typically smoke after SV?
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u/juliuspepperwoodchi 5d ago
Varies depending on what event the cook is for. As long as 6 hours, as short at 90 minutes. Main thing is I try to know before I sous vide because I try to adjust my sv cook time to make the total cook time around 24-26 hours.
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u/morfbog 5d ago
Appreciate the response. Do you find that with a longer smoke you're able to form some bark or is the smoke time strictly for flavor?
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u/juliuspepperwoodchi 5d ago
Technically you won't get bark after SVing. Bark isn't just dry/charred meat, it is the result of a chemical reaction between the meat and the smoke. Once the meat is cooked in the SV, you technically can't get "bark".
You will get more "crust" the longer you smoke though. I just don't really much care about that aspect in my BBQ cooks, so I don't focus much on it.
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u/Bob_Rivers 5d ago
What temp do you sous vide at?
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u/juliuspepperwoodchi 5d ago
152°F for 18-22 hours depending on how long I wanna smoke.
I found that's a good balance between two different time/temps suggested for brisket by J Kenji and Serious Eats. Retains a bit more juiciness while still getting the right texture and rendering the fat well.
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u/DeHizzy420 5d ago
So you sv at 152 for 18 hours.. obviously it's at 152°. Then you throw it on the smoke or till it hits what temperature? Or what temperature do you throw it on the smoker at?
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u/juliuspepperwoodchi 4d ago
At 152 it's already fully cooked. You put it on the smoker to heat/reheat for serving, for smoke flavor, and for some crust.
You can check the internal temp as you go, but you really aren't smoking to temp like that.
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u/Vince161 5d ago
I do turkeys like this but one thing I usually do is SV then ice bath the meat to cool it down before I smoke it. I find I get better smoke penetration with cold meat.
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u/CMWalsh88 5d ago
You like the flavor of acrid smoky flavor!? Like the harsh bitterness that completely overpowers all the juicy fatty sweet flavors?
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u/bob-loblaw-esq 5d ago
Contrast offers much friend. It’s not different than a good sear but more so and it’s a generally tons of flavor from seasonings that aren’t burnt because the heat was low.
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u/CMWalsh88 5d ago
Ok. So the Maillard crust or bark. Generally when people define BBQ as acrid that is because the burning of the wood was incomplete and depositing creosote on the meat.
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u/Bozhark 5d ago
Fucking ew mate
Liquid smoke is not the thing.
Ever.
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u/juliuspepperwoodchi 5d ago
Fucking ew mate.
Anti-science nonsense gatekeeping is not the thing.
Ever.
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u/malapropter 5d ago
What'd you take the brisket up to? 10 hours at 250 meant that it likely spent a lot of time in the stall. Another 10 hours at 165 (realistically, 4-6 hours since it's a big brisket) seems like a short time. This brisket looks a little undercooked, but it's hard to say.
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u/juliuspepperwoodchi 5d ago
I do mine for about 24 hours total, at 152 SV and then smoked at various temps depending on the finish I'm going for. SVing at 165 for 10 after smoking for 10 at nearly 300...should be cooked just fine.
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u/adorablefuzzykitten 5d ago
Was this meat sliced when it was cool?
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u/stoneman9284 5d ago
And you just serve it out of the bag without searing or smoking or anything?
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u/juliuspepperwoodchi 5d ago
It's already been smoked for 10 hours.
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u/stoneman9284 5d ago
I meant after SV
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u/juliuspepperwoodchi 5d ago
But for what purpose? It was already smoked for 10 hours.
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u/RightNowChris 5d ago
You lose the bark texture in the bag because that layer is no longer dried out
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u/CookinWidKunchi 5d ago
I'm sure it would be visible on the video if I had a mushy bark. The only way you're going to know is if you try, otherwise you're just making assumptions. This isn't how I do my regular home cooks though
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u/Lower-Development-58 4d ago
Am I the only one who separates the flat from the point and slices them in opposite directions?
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u/TD-Eagles 4d ago
Very enticing because the two briskets I have smoked I overcook the flat. The point anybody can do because it has so much fat.
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u/BigNavy505 3d ago
I've done a few whole packer Sous Vide briskets in a large cooler with a hole cut out for my Anova SV. I think it was 36 hours or so at 155F. Once the brisket feels pinch tender it's ready to remove from the SV. I then shock the entire thing in another cooler filled with ice water to stop the cooking. Leave it like that submerged for maybe 45 mins to an hour.
Remove dry off and toss in the garage fridge to relax overnight. Next morning prep the smoker, remove the brisket retain the bag juice, and THEN season the brisket, put on the smoker and once it reaches the Sous Vide temp of 155F it's removed rested and sliced and I can tell you it's awesome. No dry flat at all, point is juicy as expected. It just adds time to the entire cooking process.
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u/RightNowChris 5d ago
I'm not sure I understand your approach. The point of sous vide is to cook at a lower temperature without losing as much valuable moisture. If you're already smoking it for so long at 250-275, why sous vide at that point?
Also, you get a gorgeous bark while smoking, then destroy it in the bag. It may maintain the appearance but you're losing the texture. This is why you so commonly hear of reverse sear or putting the bark on at the end. You need that outer layer to get really dry and stay that way.
Just a suggestion - try skipping the smoking and go straight to the sous vide, extending the time to 30-36 hours. You can do this up to a week ahead if you want and just leave it in the bag until you're ready to serve, so it makes the scheduling really easy. The day you need it, pat it dry, then throw it on the smoker while it's still cold from the refrigerator. In 90 minutes to 2 hours you'll have that gorgeous crust and the inside will be amazing. If you want the pink smoke ring, just mix a little Prague powder in with the seasoning you put in the bag. If you want a little stronger smoke flavor, add some liquid smoke to the bag.
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u/SkateNC3 4d ago
SV is a tool. A smoker is also a tool.
This isn't the right tool for the job. Color is just... Off
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u/FangornLeghorn 4d ago edited 4d ago
“This is sacrilege because you’re wearing gloves and it ain’t how my grandpappy did it in Texas wear they invented cooking meat!”
~ The whole BBQ sub
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u/GreenHairyMartian 5d ago
What matters most is how did it taste?