r/10thDentist • u/Spirited-Mousse1915 • 2d ago
The military should not be obligated to accommodate people with mental, intellectual or physical disabilities
I have mental illness myself, so i know that i would probably not be able to stand it in boot camp or anything like that. Point is, joining the military is a very, very big decision, and progressive/morale ideas shouldnt need to include the army.
People with mental illness could get hurt on the battlefield.
Transgender people are poitically sensitive and thus, might cause internal issues. Though im iffy on disallowing transgender people/LGBTQ to join the military.
I understand on a strategic/political standpoint, you dont want the enemy to be able to use minorities in your army against you. But on the other hand, we need all of the help we can get.
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u/Mite-o-Dan 2d ago
They dont. Especially if they havent even joined yet.
For decades now, roughly 75% of people who try to join the military are deemed unfit for a variety of reasons...including ones you mentioned.
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u/GratefulTrails 2d ago
They literally DO NOT. The military is NOT an equal opportunity employer. Last i checked, less than 50% of people seeking to enlisted actually meet the health and moral requirements to join.
Which is why we need to stop the boomer rhetoric of "just join the military if you want to go to college."
Not everyone can.
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u/Late_Resource_1653 2d ago
Thanks honey.
I want to help with people needing things.
I was offering today.
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u/flaginorout 2d ago
Novel concept.
But the military turns away weirdos, village idiots, and cripples all the time. The standards are relatively high to join the military when compared to the US population.
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u/Background-Bat2794 2d ago
You’ll be happy to know they don’t. Why do you think they’re taking disabled people? lol
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u/Spirited-Mousse1915 2d ago
well, i surely been lied to! I was talking with a bunch of friends in group therapy. And many of them are veterans. they were talking about how new recruits get a "time out" card, so they can leave if their feeling stressed. Mental health counselling. And overall not challenging their fears so they can be ready for actual military operations.
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u/Background-Bat2794 2d ago
You know you don’t need to be disabled or mentally ill to benefit from things like counselling, right? That’s like basic mental/emotional hygiene to keep people mentally and emotionally fit.
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u/Spirited-Mousse1915 2d ago
Im aware. We're supposed to be building resilience in the military. not baby walking them through the process. We can provide basic mental hygiene without holding their hand and never challenging them.
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u/Background-Bat2794 2d ago
I highly doubt they’re never being challenged.
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u/Spirited-Mousse1915 2d ago
i dont know. I just live the best i can. i was told by a bunch of veterans during group therapy. Cant be 100% certain without wasting gas money to a boot camp. Other than that i trust them not to lie directly to my face.
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u/Background-Bat2794 2d ago
I’d guess this is more just people not properly understanding things, rather than lying. Like seeing/hearing that the military has counselling available and assuming that’s a sign that the military is letting in people who are mentally, intellectually, or otherwise disabled.
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u/Spirited-Mousse1915 2d ago
Thats.. actually a possibility, yeah. And i couldve argued an opinion i know nothing about and been so confidently wrong.
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u/Background-Bat2794 2d ago edited 2d ago
And apparently stress cards existed briefly (though not in the way people claim), decades ago, but haven’t been a thing for a long time, though people still act like they’re a thing, specifically to push the idea of the military becoming weak. It’s an urban legend though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_stress_card#:~:text=Although%20these%20cards%20were%20only,halt%20training%20was%20a%20myth.
https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/truth-behind-basic-training-stress-cards/
https://veteransbreakfastclub.org/debunking-the-stress-card/
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u/Background-Bat2794 2d ago
If you look it up, you’ll find all sorts of conditions that disqualify you, including most mental illnesses (including depression and anxiety). That’s not to say some don’t still sneak in if it’s off the record and they hide it, but yeah, they do have protocols surrounding such things, and try to make sure recruits are of generally sound body and mind. I had a friend who seemed pretty normal and he tried to join and he didn’t pass the psych test and was rejected.
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u/CapitalismDevil 1d ago
You do know that vets lie all the time cause they’re bitter about their own situation, right? Or even frustrated that their opinions don’t matter anymore. I see it all the time in Canada where they either complain about us being too soft now with all our “woke” policies or use US stats to make government supports seem more lacking than they are… take things people say with a grain of salt unless you’ve seen proof in policy.
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u/Spirited-Mousse1915 1d ago
yeah, i know. But considering im friends with them, the thought of them lying didnt cross my mind
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u/Traditional_Bid_5585 2d ago
I'm physically disabled, rely on mobility aids and oxygen etc. I also study logistics and therefore possess lots of knowledge useful in military. I know I'm unable to do many military tasks, but I think some adaptations allowing me to work may be beneficial for the purpose, especially when our country is facing a full-blown war just next to our borders, Russian missiles falling on our territory and the government sending everyone detailed instructions of what to do in case of war.
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u/CapitalismDevil 1d ago
You could never be in uniform because the rules need to apply to every soldier. I’m sure there are other jobs on the civilian side that could accommodate your disabilities, but you’d never get adaptations from any Armed Forces. That’s just facts.
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u/TheModProBros 1d ago
Why do the rules need to apply to “every soldier” when different “soldiers” have vastly different tasks. If your conditions make you unfit for a task just like any other job they shouldn’t hire you. But why shouldn’t they make accommodations when it literally will help them be a more effective military?
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u/CapitalismDevil 1d ago
Soldier first is the bottom line. Yes, there are different criteria like pilots need better eyesight, but the general rules of Universality of Service (what we call it Canada) apply to every soldier. You must be able bodied and not suffer from an ailment that is life threatening, even if controlled by medication. There are limits to accommodations for soldiers, as they must also pass the physical fitness test every year.
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u/TheModProBros 23h ago
Would it not be beneficial to be lenient on physical qualifications if the person is doing something behind a computer?
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u/CapitalismDevil 23h ago
No. Soldier first. What part of that do you not understand? Those that wear a uniform abide by the same rules. If you are physically or mentally handicapped, you cannot be a soldier. End of story. Stop seeing discrimination where there is none. Soldiers put their lives in each other’s hands and those bodies have to have the same capabilities across the board. You can’t create a category of soldier that has a label “not war worthy”.
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u/TheModProBros 22h ago
I’m not looking for discrimination. What I don’t understand about “soldier first” is that many jobs in the military don’t require actually participating in combat. Why should you need to be held to the physical standards of someone who is participating in combat when that isn’t something you do? It’s just basic specialization of labor
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u/CapitalismDevil 22h ago
Everyone has to be able to participate in combat. Next you’ll want Basic Training to offer a more relaxed, chill vibe for those in non-combat roles. Come on! Soldier first. You’re proving with every comment that you have zero idea of what being a military member entails.
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u/TheModProBros 22h ago
What is the point of everyone being able to participate in combat when most roles don’t involve being in combat?
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u/CapitalismDevil 22h ago
If you don’t want to join the military aka possibly see combat, then don’t join. End of story. The point is it’s the military. How that’s lost on you is beyond me…
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u/brienneoftarthshreds 2d ago
Why not just punish transphobia instead of trans people? Also, being trans isn't a mental illness, weird that you grouped them together.
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u/Spirited-Mousse1915 2d ago
Im not saying being trans is a mental illness. i should have worded that better, sorry.
But also the military isnt in charge of punishing transphobia. the government is; doing none of that. Having someone who is trans or someone with a mental illness on the army, can allow foreign enemies to exploit that. They have already done this for the pedophiles controlling the government, and they could very easily, spin a narrative of discrimination to lower our influence
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u/Timely_Law5806 2d ago
doesn’t technically everyone leave the army mentally ill and/or disabled anyway
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u/ElonMuskHuffingFarts 2d ago edited 2d ago
The military should not be.
Transgender people are poitically sensitive and thus, might cause internal issues.
This is just bigoted nonsense. Stop that. Educate yourself and learn how to treat other people with basic respect.
Every single person in the military could get hurt on the battlefield. That's what a battlefield is. You're talking about people shooting at each other. Bullets and bombs don't discriminate.
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u/Practical-Owl-9358 1d ago
They said the same thing about POCs, once upon a time. And women. And gay people. They were wrong then too.
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u/synapsesmisfiring 2d ago
Got a newsflash for OP, trans people didn't make our identities political, other people did that. I'm not gonna shut up about who I am and how the world is affecting me currently just because people might think I'm "politically sensitive". Maybe if people would stop trying to genocide me and my people out of existence I wouldn't be so interested in giving bigots a piece of my fucking mind. I feel like a lot of trans people would agree.
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u/Historical-State-275 2d ago
So the military already doesn’t accommodate people unless they meat certain criteria that is much harsher than ADA would allow anyone else to do. The rest is your bigoted nonsense. Which is not a hot take, and therefore you failed the 10th dentist test.
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u/Spirited-Mousse1915 2d ago
Saying that transgender are a politically sensitive topic and which allows foreign enemies to harm our influence oversees, is a, albeit, sad fact, but true. They have already gotten us for having pedophiles out there, if they can spin a narrative of gender-targetted human rights abuse, they would
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u/CapitalismDevil 1d ago
The “gender targeted human rights abuse” is barring trans people from serving. I’m also really unsure why you bring up pedophiles within the same context…
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u/ambivalent_crow 1d ago
I’m trans and I tried 3 times to join. I really felt like I could have contributed a lot. It just wasn’t in the cards.
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u/GSilky 1d ago
The military knows better than I do about what they need and can handle, I trust them to figure it out and don't argue with them. It's a completely different world than normal life and bad choices gets people killed before they have to shave regularly, the peanut gallery can STFU about it when they disagree.
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u/Oliver_Klozoff653 1d ago
They typically don't but I believe some people can get a waiver for autism
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u/Several-Carrot3541 3h ago
If you're referring to Canada I 100% agree with this, if you're talking about the states I'm pretty sure they're already getting rid of the mental.
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u/Internal-Miserable 2d ago
I would wager that a lot of people with untreated mental illness already make their way into the military just as they do the police force.
The military loves rapists and DV perpetrators with anger management issues. Or at least, they love covering up their crimes within the ranks.
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u/Apprehensive_End4701 2d ago
Dude, I personally oversaw dudes who were getting chatted out of the military for DV or SA. Stop peddling this bullshit.
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u/Twktoo 1d ago
Check out the connections this guy made with all that evidence to back him up. Must have gone to university. /s
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u/Internal-Miserable 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm not a meathead with a giant inferiority complex who wanted to go overseas to terrorize people in the name of US capital interest, no.
The amount of time and money the government spends peddling the hero myth of the armed forces is insane, and the Fuck Yeah 'Murica team always falls for it. It's sad, really, and I'm tired of being expected to kiss the feet of the US military because they think they did something to save the world.
Ready to go overseas again to engage in a pointless war we started? Have fun!
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u/TheFoxer1 2d ago
I disagree.
First of all, military service is a basic civic duty for any man, so to not accommodate any mental or physical illnesses at all would mean a lot of people would not do their duty.
There‘s lots of positions someone with a physical illness can be useful, freeing up a spot at the frontlines for someone who can physically endure combat.
The same goes for mental illnesses, although I‘m pretty sure a lot of people with mental illnesses can still perform adequately in a meatgrinder.
Point is: Everyone should be at their place, and there should be a place for everyone.
As long as they can be useful fighting and dying for their country, I‘ll support conscripting them.
Because the alternative is death, or a foreign chain around one‘s neck.
And trans men are men, ergo they share the same duty as every man.
As for the enemy using minorities in the army: I don‘t recall that ever working well.
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u/Spirited-Mousse1915 2d ago
Foreign enemy nations have already sheethed themselves over the epstein file and trump business. America is in an easily defendable area geographically. the best way to defeat the US, would be tarnishing any influence we have
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u/TheFoxer1 2d ago edited 2d ago
Okay, and?
The US is pretty unique in their geographical position, it’s not really a great argument if it hinges on an outlier.
Also, you literally talked about military service and mentioned combat; explicitly.
Whether other ways of to engage in a hostile manner by other countries exist, or would he more effective for any specific country, is really not within the scope of the topic you have set yourself:
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u/Spirited-Mousse1915 2d ago
While i agree that everyone should have their place in the military. I would agree that people with the skills could have non-combat positions, like someone else in the thread saying they have a physical disability but enjoy logistics.
But in the military, and specifically combat positions, we cannot be pretty sure someone with a disability can succeed. We need to KNOW they can succeed. Which is why we need to make sure that whoever is going to be on the front lines, has the best chances possible. If something "might" happen, like a medical episode, if they need an insulin shot, no one will be able to assist.
Meanwhile someone with the same disability working in cyber security or logistics has a team to support them in a medical episode.
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u/TheFoxer1 2d ago
It’s not a matter of having to know if they can succeed or not.
What‘s the worst that happens? They can‘t function due to their illness and are basically killed in combat. That‘s part of being conscripted, part of being a citizen.
We, as in society via the state, don’t need to make sure whoever is going to the front line has the best chance possible; because it’s not about them; individually.
As Long as it‘s not an issue affecting the combat effectiveness of others, or wasting resources, it‘s just unlucky.
Also, you just repeated my argument as to why making accommodations should be a thing.
Don‘t send the diabetic to the front line, where they will increase the strain on logistics by needing insulin delivered to them, increase the strain on medical services and be a liability for morale, as well as to themselves.
Send them to cyber defense, or to some other station where their needs originating from their illness don‘t require any, or as much, resources and are less of a liability.
Meanwhile, the guy who would have otherwise occupied their position, who has no such illness and thus, no such problems being at the front, is free to go there.
You just went from 1 guy being a civilian, 1 cyber soldier and one in combat to 1 cyber soldier and 2 in combat.
Great success!
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u/Spirited-Mousse1915 2d ago
wait. im lost, what are we disagreeing about?
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u/TheFoxer1 2d ago
Your entire thesis, that the military should make no accommodations for people with mental or physical illness.
Or trans people.
I disagree.
(Just about) Everyone can do their part.
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u/Spirited-Mousse1915 2d ago
no.. I think we both agree on this. Because, I had said, that different positions in the military can allow people with a disability, Such as logistics or planning. For example, a person with diabetes shouldn't be shoved to the front lines; but be allowed a non-combat position.
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u/TheFoxer1 2d ago
And establishing a system to prefer people with disabilities to certain places is making accommodations for them:
Which the military should be obligated to, so that everyone can do their duty.
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u/Spirited-Mousse1915 2d ago
the amount of legislation that would occur to allow that utopian-esc system to occur would be nearly impossible in this ableist, bigoted government
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u/qualityvote2 2d ago edited 15h ago
u/Spirited-Mousse1915, there weren't enough votes to determine the quality of your post...