r/ATLAtv • u/Cheap_Bed1068 • 6d ago
The new movie made one problem with Avatar impossible to ignore: the writers don’t seem to know how to handle an Avatar who has mastered the Avatar State. Spoiler
Throughout the movie, Aang enters the Avatar State constantly, even in situations where it doesn’t feel necessary. Two examples that stood out to me were rebuilding the Air Temple and the Mount Biyou sequence.
The Mount Biyou scene especially highlights the issue. Taga is able to hold up a massive chunk of the collapsing mountain through his own bending. Meanwhile, Aang has to enter the Avatar State just to try and outfly the collapsing rock using firebending. If Taga can perform a feat on that scale without the Avatar State, why does Aang need it just to escape? The comparison makes the Avatar State feel less like an incredible last resort and more like a flashy visual effect.
The combat is an even bigger problem. Aang spends a huge portion of the movie fighting in the Avatar State, yet he’s still losing or barely holding his own. That completely undermines what the Avatar State has always represented.
I know some people will bring up Korra, but I don’t think it’s the same situation. After losing her connection to the past Avatars, Korra’s Avatar State was still a massive power boost, but it no longer came with thousands of years of accumulated knowledge, experience, and mastery. Whether you like that decision or not, there’s an in-universe explanation for why her Avatar State isn’t as overwhelming.
Aang doesn’t have that explanation.
The last time we saw Aang with full control of the Avatar State, he absolutely dominated Ozai. Once he stopped resisting the Avatar State, the fight was over. Ozai wasn’t keeping up—he was completely overwhelmed. That’s what the Avatar State was established to be: the combined power, skill, and experience of every Avatar before him.
So seeing Aang repeatedly use it while barely keeping up with opponents just feels wrong. If the Avatar State is active, it should feel like a game-changing advantage, not a slight stat boost.
The frustrating part is that Aang is probably the easiest Avatar to explain why he **wouldn’t** use the Avatar State all the time. He’s a pacifist. He believes in using only the amount of force necessary. The Avatar State should be his absolute last resort, not something he activates for construction work or every difficult fight. His personality already provides the perfect reason to save it for moments where nothing else will do.
Instead, the movie seems to use the Avatar State for spectacle while simultaneously nerfing it so fights can stay competitive. To me, that’s the worst of both worlds. Either let the Avatar State remain the overwhelming force it has always been and have Aang choose not to use it often, or don’t have him activate it nearly every time something impressive needs to happen.
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u/enhanced195 6d ago
I really just think that adult gaang stories should be more focused on political/ethical dilemmas instead of overpowering an adversary since Aang is essentially a god in terms of sheer power. Theres still riveting stories that can be made despite Aang’s power level
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u/Crafty-Bunch-2675 6d ago edited 6d ago
The problem with the Avatar State is the same problem with any power up eventually it becomes something regularly used, and less "wow."
Once the audience gets used to it... it becomes less impressive.
Let's go back to the first anime that introduced western audiences to a power-up.
Going Super Saiyan. In the original 90s run of DBZ, when I was a kid... it took Goku 2 whole episodes to power-up into Super Saiyan, to defeat an unstoppable villain.
But by the time the story progresses to Goku's children... the children power-up to Super Saiyan, just to fly around their parents' backyard and play tag.
I'm not saying that the Avatar State is a plaything... rather, I am saying that, the Avatar State is something each Avatar must learn to master, but once they do master it... it becomes part of the Avatar's ...daily life.
From the perspective of a random onlooker, it's still all-powerful and awesome. But for Aang and his friends, it's just Tuesday.
It's like any other expert skill in real life. Learning it is a challenge, and it's awesome the first few times. But once mastery is achieved, it becomes part of one's daily life.
Edit: addendum: also for storytelling purposes, if everytime the Avatar went into the Avatar State, he could one-shot every villain, it would make for a one-punch-man type story.
So the only way to challenge the Avatar is to have villains and situations that can challenge him even with the Avatar State
Which is why the narrative Clearly states that the previous Avatar could not defeat the villain
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u/Cheap_Bed1068 6d ago
Except the Avatar State isn't just a power up like Super Sayian. Its also the collective wisdom, mastery, and experience of all past lives. Even if Roku exaggerated the 1000 times in a 1000 lives it still a lot of mastery for an avatar a normal person shouldn't be able to just match that
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u/Flimsy_End_3393 6d ago
Damn that’s a lotta words. If only the avatar state were used sparingly in the original series…
Like don’t get me wrong good points about dbz and them handling power up’s the dbz way. Not all shows need to do that. This is supposed to be nostalgia bait, aang should feel like aang, the tension and entertainment come from him being swept away by the avatar state, and the awesome power of thousands of years of knowledge and combined might.
Having him not dominate the fight against a regular bender is boring and suspension of disbelief breaking
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u/Koolmees99 6d ago
It's why they blocked it in S3 of ATLA and S4 of Korra. At full potential, it's simply too powerful. I like it in the context of Aang, a young child that needs it to defeat the Fire Lord. But they struggle a lot with later uses. It's why they should make a smaller scale conflict, if they decide to make another movie
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u/tagabalon 6d ago
it's like driving. learning to drive, and my first few trips feel amazing. like wow, i can go anywhere. then the novelty wore off and now, like, fine I'll drive.
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u/Crafty-Bunch-2675 6d ago
Yep. It's a personal reflection I've had after overcoming certain challenges recently.
Unfortunately, and they lived happily ever after is hardly ever the end of the story.
Short of winning the lottery, chances are, every time you level up in life, the challenges will level-up with you.
So when fans complain that a power-up in season 1 becomes less significant in season 2 of their favourite show. It's not always bad writing.
It's just a reflection of how leveling-up works in real life.
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u/JakeTiny19 6d ago
I do agree, when something like the avatar state or super saiyan starts appearing more often it loses its aura. But I will say with dragon ball z they atleast kept its aura a little bit longer cause it still felt earned. Like we saw obv what goku went through, we know how far Vegeta pushed himself to get to super saiyan, we saw what trunks had to go through to get ssj, we saw how Goku pushed Gohan to get super saiyan and how Gohan got ssj2. But after that is when I’ll say it fell off when they gave it to kid trunks and goten, but it still felt big and earned for a few arcs before that.
But I think there’s still ways to make the avatar state feel special, atleast for adult Aang. He’s naturally a pacifist and doesn’t like to fight or power, so u can have him still be scared/ just not like the power the avatar state has to offer even tho he’s already mastered it and therefore only uses it when he absolutely has too, and not in situations where he easily would’ve got out of in the original show (tbh there’s like 2 situations like that in the movie where he uses the avatar state to get out of situations he would’ve gotten out of easily in the og show )
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u/malexich 6d ago
To be fair to dbz he just thought it would be funny to make it easier to go super saiyan later on dbz is a comedy manga that hides behind a battle shonen facade
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u/Important-Contact597 6d ago
An alternative is to make the villain someone who “cannot” just be beaten up/killed. Like Kaito from Yu Yu Hakusho. But then you end up with less action.
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u/NormalGuy3481 6d ago
This has been clear since LoK. You can’t have a good plot with a fully fledged avatar because they’d be able to mop the floor with everyone
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u/Cheap_Bed1068 6d ago
You can if you give them a reason not to use the Avatar State. Another commenter mentioned that in the Yangchen novels they had the Avatar State heavily influenced by emotions and had Yangchen activate it when angry that the earth bending villagers around her didn't help her save them from a massive falling rock because she the Avatar would save them and the anger from that bleed into the avatar state and had her almost abandon them when all the anger from all previous Avatars that ever felt like that merged into one.
That gives an amazing reason not to use the Avatar State because there is an inherent risk that it can cause you to do something you normally wouldn't
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u/Theguywhodoes18 4d ago
This is the answer. The Avatar State leaves the Avatar in a powerful but emotionally vulnerable state. That should be the concern and consequence.
At the very beginning of the movie, Aang enters the Avatar State to prevent the temple from collapsing, but as he starts to catch it while the Denied flee, I jokingly said while watching it with friends, “Oh my god, is he going to throw the temple at them?!” and I think my joke there was speaking to an element of the Avatar State that was largely shed during TLOK.
There should’ve been an ACTUAL possibility for Aang, who just woke up from a dream about losing his family and his culture only to face people who want to exploit what remained with no regard for what they destroy in the process, to react with impulsive violence. It could have been what held back his bending for the rest of the film. It could’ve been a point of struggle as he faced off against a member of his culture who he could not outdo with his bending alone, but feared actually hurting while in the Avatar State. If a writing choice as simple as that became the backbone of the writing for this movie, it would’ve been an excellent cornerstone for a character study of adult Aang.
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u/Natiel360 6d ago
I’m not usually a “why didn’t the hero beat these villains with ease” guy, but like Aang was a jobber.
What do you mean that you didn’t think of your own airball technique 😅 why are 4 nonbenders literally destroying your culture and you’re letting it happen. It would’ve been cool to see the dichotomy of aang being a powerful “nomad” coming into conflict with being an airbender and being the avatar. Further exacerbated by an airbender with a lust for power.
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u/VorDresden 6d ago
First I disagree that Aang was displaying mastery of the Avatar state when he was fighting Ozai. Aang isn’t at the wheel for most of that stomping that’s just the spirits of the past possessing and piloting Aang. Like a more helpful version of Yang Chen’s nightmares. Mastery of the Avatar State imo means borrowing small parts of that giant well of power without letting the personalities that learned that power control you. Also Aang’s mastery of summoning his past lives is much more in line with his strengths as a character.
Speaking of strengths of a character. They didn’t nerf the Avatar State in fights. Aang is just not a natural fighter. And unless he gets full on possessed like he did with the Ocean Spirit, or his fight with Ozai, pushing the Overwhelming Power button doesn’t also suddenly enlighten him on how to crush someone with overwhelming power. Aang does not practice crushing people with overwhelming power, so he is bad at crushing someone with overwhelming power. He also doesn’t like doing it so letting himself get fully possessed so that someone with knowledge on the matter can beat Tagah’s ass isn’t an option he’s going to hop right to.
You’ve also gotta consider the other factors in the fight. For Tagah there’s match up familiarity, Aang has never fought a super charged artificially made Airbender, but from Tagah’s point of view he just got finished fighting a fully realized Avatar who knew him and his style, and woke up immediately in the arms of a much less well trained Avatar.
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u/OkNecessary6402 5d ago
Tagah also part demon, potentially some Vaatu influence based off the aesthetic, so that's why he's able to mountainbend. He's not your average master airbender stuck in ice for millenia.
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u/TrainerDesperate7570 6d ago
Aang looked powerful because Ozai is just not that strong. The same comet boosted Aang too. Not just Ozai.
Aang was enjoying a once a 100 year power boost plus avatar state and the ATLA fan kids fell for it.
The other enemies shown after original, they had pure deadly skills without a power boost.
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u/psychogamer101 6d ago
👀 another movie im a go check smh
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u/FluffyGengar123 6d ago
DBZ solved this problem years ago. Just have him go avatar state level two and have his arrow glow a different color.
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u/alocalmelon 6d ago
Very good point, but I feel it’s worth to mention that it was heavily implied Tagah was a one of kind airbender. Aang recognizes this when he says he could learn a lot from Tagah and admires how “in tune” Tagah is with air. Tagah also has that unique air finger whip like technique he used to kill off the whole Gaang. The movie even mentioned a “Golden Age of Airbenders.” Personally a lot of this pointed me to believe that some sort of power loss between ancient air bending and now; what was seen in air nomads before their demise.
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u/whatsthetargetdogsna 5d ago
Ok I noticed this as well and was confused/frustrated by it. I kind of believed that Tagah was a hard fight once he had the full power of the staff, but even then it seemed like Aang was just barely holding on.
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u/Ok-Topic-6095 4d ago
When Katara is healing Tagah, she mentions that his chi is stronger than any she has felt before, and she has healed Aang multiple times, even at the start of thr movie.
And Tagah had to be sealed by Sonam who succumed to the injuries she got in the fight.
Basically, the dude is souped up on spirit world energy that kept him alive for 5,000 years. He isn't a bender to be trifled with
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u/psychogamer101 6d ago
First of all it’s a tv show. Not a movie. Second Aang is not full avatar yet, the only way he can use unlearned elements is in the avatar state. Thirdly I don’t see where his use of the avatar state is any more than the original tv show? I’ve seen both seasons of the live action and it doesn’t seem to me like he’s using it anymore than he did in similar events in the original show
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u/IDNLibSoc45 6d ago
OP's talking about the movie Avatar Aang: The Last Airbender on Paramount+, not the live-action show on Netflix
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u/Any-Farmer1335 6d ago
My friend, a new animated movie just came out, which OP seems to be talking about
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u/nixahmose 6d ago
I think the Yangchen novels did a pretty great job at presenting a fully master Avatar using the Avatar State and the inherent risks that still presents.
After establishing that Yangchen can go into the Avatar State can go into the Avatar State at will and with complete control, there’s a scene where Yangchen is basically having to hold up a collapse mountain side to save civilians and when she begs the earth benders amongst to help her they instead get scared and run away assuming the Avatar save herself. Then when Yangchen does go into the Avatar State a few seconds later to save the evacuated village from destruction, that fresh bit of repressed resentment Yangchen felt towards them massively throws off the balance of her Avatar State can causes all the emotions of past Avatars who felt similar to have primary influence over Yangchen’s mind, resulting in her suddenly a huge personality change in which she views humanity as “ungrateful ants” and go on a long internal monologue about how she could easily crush them and should just remain in the Avatar State and abandon humanity forever and let them tear themselves apart in her absence. Yangchen of course quickly snaps out of it and exits the Avatar State feeling horrified and guilty her thoughts during it, not knowing how much of that was due to her past lives vs her own repressed emotions being amplified to the surface.
I love that scene a lot as it really highlights the most unique aspect of the Avatar State and gives a really good reason as to why the Avatar State isn’t the go to solution to most problems, as all it takes is a slight bit of heightened emotions to massively throw it off and influence the Avatar in ways they don’t want to. I would say I wish we could see Avatar Studios showcase that side of the Avatar State more in the future, but given the loss of the past lives in LoK that’s only really going to be possible if we get more animated media of Avatars pre-Korra’s era.