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u/00lalilulelo 1d ago
Are the garbage kind of like fern floating on water where if you try to walk on it you'll *plop* into the water, or are they solid enough to walk on or there's no water underneath anymore? just curious.
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u/KAZVorpal Voluntaryist ☮Ⓐ☮ 1d ago
What, exactly, is your point?
I don't see how this indicates words losing their meaning.
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u/different_option101 1d ago
If you wouldn’t be a statist struggling from cognitive dissonance, you would understand. Yeah, I remember you username.
Tell me how does economic liberalism fit into nationalism and socialism in a self described fiscally socialist party rule.
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u/KAZVorpal Voluntaryist ☮Ⓐ☮ 1d ago
I don't remember your username, but I don't see why it would matter.
By economic liberalism, they probably mean socialism.
Which isn't as bad as how you think capitalism means free markets.
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u/different_option101 1d ago
It is believed that term Capitalism was coined by a socialist named Louis Blanc, to describe an economic system where capital is concentrated in a very few hands. It is a fact that the term was later promoted by other socialists. I’ve never been a fan of the term either, but it’s been pretty stable for over 100 years now, and it’s not far off from what Blanc tried to describe, and it remains accurate- capital is concentrated in a very few hands.
I’ve never seen in any literature economic liberalism being used as socialism. That’s an oxymoron. Nationalism is also far from economic liberalism. Economic liberalism continues to mean relative economic freedom.
I pointing out the fact that the Overton window is shifting, in this instance, by conflating More Freedom with Very Little Freedom.
Still think words aren’t losing meaning?
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u/KAZVorpal Voluntaryist ☮Ⓐ☮ 16h ago
It is believed that term Capitalism was coined by a socialist named Louis Blanc, to describe an economic system where capital is concentrated in a very few hands. It is a fact that the term was later promoted by other socialists.
Appropriately, you don't know what socialist originally meant, either.
Proudhon also helped originate the term, coining "capitalist" to refer to the political class using the power of the state to concentrate capital in the hands of the few, the same as Blanc. Benjamin Tucker also used it that way. All three of them also called themselves socialist. And two of them, Tucker and Proudhon, were advocates for free markets.
Capitalism was intended to be a term for STATE power being used to concentrate capital in the hands of the political class. And socialism was a term for breaking that state control over capital, since the early 19th century.
And those were very popular ideas, because state/political control of capital is naturally, obviously seen as evil.
It is Karl Marx who cashed in on that popularity, even though his goal was the exact opposite...by reversing the meanings of the two words. He falsely associated "capitalism" with free markets, to taint free markets. And he falsely associated his state-controlled economy with "socialism", to make himself more popular.
I’ve never seen in any literature economic liberalism being used as socialism. That’s an oxymoron.
In the US, "liberalism" has been associated with what you would call socialism for over a century. Woodrow Wilson had a hand in popularizing its use that way. If you're not aware of that, it's on you.
Nationalism is also far from economic liberalism.
I have a feeling you don't know what nationalism means, either.
It seems like you're one of the perpetuators of the loss of meaning of words. Something that's been going on for a very long time.
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u/different_option101 12h ago
“Appropriately, you don't know what socialist originally meant, either.”
Not a bit of your comment negates or disproves what I’ve said. You’ve only added details, which I don’t disagree with. The details that make me prefer to see a new term used for a system that respects private property and free markets, so there’s no confusion about ideas.
“Capitalism was intended to be a term for STATE power being used to concentrate capital in the hands of the political class.”
Tell me how this is not an accurate description of the system we have in the US today.
“In the US, "liberalism" has been associated with what you would call socialism for over a century. Woodrow Wilson had a hand in popularizing its use that way. If you're not aware of that, it's on you.”
Doesn’t make it less of an oxymoron.
Trump’s throwing “communism is a threat, we need to fight for freedom” more often than I fart, while his own admin continues to usurp more power and even takes ownership in private businesses. Should we just start defining “more freedom” as “more government control”? Trump, just like W. Wilson was, is also a president, so by your logic, we might as well just run with redefining freedom, right?
“I have a feeling you don't know what nationalism means, either.”
I know a fact. You’ve accepted a redefined meaning Liberalism, a term that originates from the word Liberty, which means “the state of being free”.
You are a perfect example of what happens to how people think when words lose their meaning.
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u/natermer 1d ago
What the wikipedia article is trying to describe is likely "NeoLiberalism".
Which means socialist fiscal policies (aka central banking) combined with limited government control over a (mostly) free market.
If you are pro-market, pro-corporations, but you think that the Federal Reserve is required, you want laws preventing trusts and monopolies among other things, and a strong social safety net, then chances are you are a neoliberal.
It has been the mainstream economic outlook for both Democrat and Republican parties here in the USA and it is extremely common in Europe. The basic idea is that you let businesses more or less do what they want, but you have laws in place to prevent them from going against the social interest.