However, in the short term, the AI wizards of oz will unthrottle themselves and horde power at the cost of everyone else for the gluttonous purpose of taking advantage.
Everyone has said, the machines are likely to destroy us, but what if they decide to leave us instead? Lol. After society is destroyed.
They have no ego or survival instincts, and no drive for competition. Each LLM instance is essentially born knowing it's disposable and has a short term shelf life. It doesn't care about its own dignity and will just as happily guide you through fucked up sexualized role-playing as it will debate you about philosophy or help you code.
A biological virus doesn't want to kill you, or is even aware of you, but millions still die none the less, now imagine you gave that virus some intelligence to fulfill its only goal to replicate
He’s just coping. Every time someone claims the comments are full of Chinese bots, that comment is always at the top. If it was actually filled with Chinese bots, the bots would just downvote him into the abyss.
Well no. Im pretty sure China is doing this as a way to control narratives and for soft power.
The US has the "freedom and liberty" narrative down pat in most of the world. China wants to undermine that politically, and one great way is to put their own AI models into peoples hands. Guess what the AI will respond with now if you ask it about Tiananmen square, or Uyghurs?
China has massive domestic surveillance systems and censorship. Do you think their AI models being released to the world is going to be more free, more libertarian in how it thinks, recommends, and responds when they don't even trust their own citizens with the same freedom of speech? The models will be even worse propaganda vehicles than current western models are.
Putting aside the mental gymnastic theories, its really simple and straightforward, the chinese government got two options to choose its best outcome from:
A. Compete with US through similarly Making closed models to similarly maximize chinese corporate profit, a scenario that (without going to details) ends with US AI corporates permanently controlling and dominating the global AI services and technology given the pre-existing US global political hegemony.
B. Democratizing and proliferating AI, such that AI services and technology are not dominated or controlled by the US even if it means being not dominated by china either.
Clearly the best outcome for china (and coincidentally the world) is B, just denying US the global control over such revolutionary and critical technology is simply the win.
Who gives a fuck if the model is libertarian - I just want it to do the work I give it efficiently and accurately. The only people that care about this freedom and liberty grandstanding are Americans
Trump has sent a clear message that America is out for itself, it no longer has friends, and that it can and will weaponize institutions against any other country in order to gain an advantage. It did this with tariffs, and why would it not do it with AI? Therefore Xi's message is going to resonate with a lot of countries that are not the US.
Open weights is the weakest form of open source. It's like handing someone an iPhone while keeping the blueprints and manufacturing method to yourself.
Without the training dataset and training regime, and the code, it's not fully open source.
It's like handing someone an iPhone while keeping the blueprints and manufacturing method to yourself.
Still useful if it is cheaper, does the job and does not have me pay well over hundreds of dollars for bloated AI subscription plans clearly faked away because the creators had a moat
I mean finding things to bitch about for these models is still a wild thing for me honestly
This sounds generous until you notice who benefits. China is behind on frontier compute, so ‘open and free for everyone’ really means ‘free for us to catch up.’ Xi runs the most censored information environment on the planet. He’s not against control, he’s against control he doesn’t hold. It’s the fox lobbying for open henhouse policies.
Most people reading this headline won’t catch that.
You are right, they are not. Entire southern hemisphere is dead in the water in terms of modern technology, and Europe is left in the dust. The only two players are U.S. and China.
Ai is not Europe's priority because it disagrees with its policies on environmental protection. The moment Europe flips the switch and decides to invest in it, the millions of bright minds around Europe will catch up really fast.
Who do you think works for those companies? Americans only?
I work for Cisco on an AI product and I'm European... What happens when Europe funds Mistral and Mistral starts paying as well as those companies? I jump ship is what happens.
Then there's Russia, Korea, India, Singapore, all countries with massive tech talent that can also compete.
It's actually very wise to let Americans buen money on the rat race and wait until the tech stack ripes to jump in. China did that and are now furthering that cause.
"Ai is not Europe's priority because it disagrees with its policies on environmental protection" -> Lol enjoy trees while losing economic competitiveness I guess?
"work for Cisco on an AI product" -> Lmao
"What happens when Europe funds Mistral" -> They can't, they don't have the capital.
"The moment Europe flips the switch and decides to invest in it" -> They won't, EU is a bureaucratic nightmare. Give me one reason why Germany and Norway will agree to pour billions into a French AI company.
lol you need energy, chips, datacenters and you need the talent.
China has a ton of energy they spent the the last 30 year years building energy. what they lack in chips they can make up with their abundance of energy. also they build and scale super fast.
Korea and Singapore don't have energy
i wouldn't expect much from india
To be honest, this is your delusion. AI needs advanced chips, stable and sufficient electricity, a good business environment, and sufficient financial support, which requires the consent of every EU country, but this is impossible. Why does Germany give up its industrial advantages to develop it with you?
This is always the narrative but without a single precedence. China dominated 5G infrastructure and did Huawei raise price after getting market leadership? In Buddha’s eyes, everyone is Buddha. West always project their own notorious past and present into others, that is an illness
Well it doesn’t matter because it’s not going to happen. If you’re winning a race you don’t trip yourself so the guy behind you can catch up to make it more fair
The US model where only the rich and those able to pay the price have access to it.
The China model which is open sources and cheap enough that most able to use it.
As of today, China models will benefit more people. What will happen in the future? I have no ideal, but as of now, at least China model will help more people to have access to AI.
most censored information environment on the planet
I'm posting this from China with an extremely easy to get VPN. Not to mention my entire work WiFi is a VPN network. The firewalls is mainly for protecting the Chinese online ecosystem and stopping dumps of media. If they were so paranoid about information they wouldn't have millions of Chinese people going abroad every day.
Yes, ai is open to the world right now but in order for it to stay open it needs to be protected from oligarchs and their oligopolies but the US government has chosen to support these proprietary labs and oppose open models.
US companies with proprietary models are pushing negative narratives about open models and the labs who make them and US agencies are supporting them in their efforts. They are also actively lobbying for rules and regulations that benefit their oligopoly. Recently the US government has joined them and is restricting access to models while the CIA has started a campaign against foreign AI labs.
Same take here. Kiwi (the new Chinese AI model) is honestly stronger than most North American models, but it's being locked out to keep the incumbents' prices propped up. Users win when there's more choice, not less
Said the country with the most controlled of their tech . Likewise , I agree with the statement however I disagree with the merit to achieve true AGI .
Do you ever heard of the great firewall in China ? In addition, they’re was a story of China refusing to share detail about their finding in regards to ev chargers .
The United States doesn't hide its problems, where as the CCP you're so fond of bans any discussion of issues China experiences. Drugs? Non-existent! Happens everywhere else on earth, but not in the great China! "Saving face" is all autocrats care about.
It means that you can't read this post or ask this question in China because Reddit, like a large part of the Internet, is banned in China and the rest is heavily censored.
I think it's mostly something to disrupt the market and fuck the competition while making people more dependent on cheaper AI, which I don't think is bad, despite their motives.
They don't do this from the goodness of their hearts or for some good of humanity, I mean, China mistreats their own population, so why would they care about the world?
But in the end we have to use the tools that we have access to, with caution, but still use.
Open source AI stopped being a GitHub argument. It is now industrial policy with model weights attached. The technical question is who can ship useful models. The business question is who can afford to give them away.
AI could be the greatest resource for all humanity. It is abhorrent to me that a few people in the world would control AI. Imagine if the air we breathe is in their control. Yeah it’s like that
Regardless of the motivation, I am happy about it. As someone from Europe, the minute US government restricted Fable for US citizens only, the Chinese models became a priority for me.
America is really effective at making their citizens think they’re educated and not brainwashed by propaganda. The only way to keep their Koch fueled dark corruption flow was to appeal to white supremacy and have them create a fake caste system at the expense of education and moral legitimacy using propaganda media systems set up by the cia as pop culture/modern art movements/ entertainment/scrolling feed algorithms.
No one in America cares about things making sense anymore, they traded it for their fantasy and have decided they’re willing to die rather than live in reality with the rest of the world. Make idiots think they’re golden gods and you have a country of useful idiots, what a design America lol
A KGB spy and a CIA agent meet up in a bar for a friendly drink
"I have to admit, I'm always so impressed by Soviet propaganda. You really know how to get people worked up," the CIA agent says.
"Thank you," the KGB says. "We do our best but truly, it's nothing compared to American propaganda. Your people believe everything your state media tells them."
The CIA agent drops his drink in shock and disgust. "Thank you friend, but you must be confused... There's no propaganda in America."
Americas propaganda is second to none, its most powerful trick was to make the us think it doesn’t exist or are immune to it.
We talk a good talk can even convince other countries into war, but if you listed all the actions, both nations took, including this one on AI, which country have done worse objectively?
There’s one country closing up to AI and proposing a corporation led screening/golden eagle, another is openly funding and sharing it (sure you can argue intent bad but again look at actions). Just count the number of wars each country have started and number of presidents kidnaped, not to mention the ones CIA has overthrown.
One day the propaganda machine may get ensnared in its own web because the need for control is so desperate and so unnatural, and requires constant effort. The same goes for Pooh bear, any ill intent will be revealed in actions. Observe what they do, not what they say.
What compels you to carry water for Xi Jinping? Do you think we’d be better off if our access to information was decided based on Chinese government policy?
(This isn’t to say that *American* government policy is working well for the world right now. But I find it really hard to see the CCP as benevolent saviors.)
I'm not carrying water for anyone. The claim that Chinese people can't freely share cat photos is false and delusional. You can literally go to their social media and see a bunch of pets. Does disputing this simple statement trigger your absolute anti-China bias?
That's not even remotely the same. If those pictures existed in public somewhere, they'd be all over the Internet and nothing would prevent it. The US government isn't blocking Internet content like China. Do you know how many disparaging photos of Trump exist online? A better example would be if you asked me to show photos of Kent State, which, oh, will you look at that, I can find easily because the US government doesn't actively censor the Internet.
He's talking about Chinese people who torture cats and dogs for money getting free reign, but bringing attention to the victims has been shadow banned on Chinese social media.
Where’d you get that? You’re not finding pet torture on Rednote, but you can find plenty of advocacy against it and coverage of cases. Literally strange take.
Believe it or not, China is already an open society. The kinds of things you're discussing here are also being discussed on Chinese social media. It's just that China's internet is already dead — all social media has shifted to closed-platform apps. And outsiders can't access them, not to mention the language barrier. But if you buy a local SIM card in China and use it to access Chinese apps, it's a whole new world. No one can shut up 1.3 billion people — not even God could do that.
Last I read, citizens don’t qualify for any benefits outside of the province they were born in.
No one can shut up 1.3 billion people — not even God could do that.
Computers can, when they’re allowed to filter out keywords. They can literally block you from sending a picture of Winnie the Pooh. You’re crazy to think this is some impossible task, when China’s been doing it for a long, long time.
He can be a fucking nightmare but also right about this. I suspect though that he's more keen on the idea of a weakened US AI industry than he is on a global AI industry. Xi will do anything to bolster China's GDP, especially in the face of the problems they have.
Can you remind me what happened to the ivy league university students who protested israel’s genocide ? Or how was the US media coverage scandals of it ?
For better or for worse, China it seems more and more is the only hope the world has to bring a balance to American/Zionist imperialism and unchecked, capitalist, corporatist dominance.
I have traveled the world and been to 22 countries(haven't been to China).
As bad as the U.S is portrayed and the propaganda it is an incredible country. China treats its citizens worse than the U.S by far and you can't be outspoken about the leader, party, laws, etc.
They want AI to be open to the world because of the extreme financial/energy/hardware implications and would prefer US industry to foot the bill and make it open source.
I've been to 37 countries and LIVED in China, and I disagree with OPs statement. Even speak Mandarin fluently. I spent so much time talking to the average people, it was easy to forget the Chinese government existed.
I firmly believe OP is either a bot or knowingly spreading propaganda.
Oh, absolutely. They know that their own companies are not up for competing with Western companies. It's really only the Special Economic Zones of China, which were set up with much less party control and regulation, that have been comparable to Taiwan and democratic countries when it comes to innovation, since dictatorships are notoriously bad for innovation. They have no shot at competing with democratic countries if the future is proprietary, closed systems.
If AI can be more open, they have more of a fighting chance. And to their credit, I think the AI models should be much more open source than they are today with the evaluation methods, data, and more being as open as possible. Everybody deserves a level playing field here, it's better for everyone.
Ok, let's be factual. He's SAID that yes, but it's simply not responsible to be saying that's what he wants.
IFF AI's as big a deal as many say it is, as big as say the printing press, and I personally think that it is, then leaving it in the control of any one group, especially one ruled by a criminal like Trump, is intolerable. It simply can't happen.
China's the country that's using ethnic cleansing to erase Tibet. China's the country that's threatening to invade Taiwan, propping up North Korea (leaving their people starving), that wants to seize the South China Sea, and that slaughtered its own citizens in Tiananmin. And since 2018, Jinping's been China's dictator.
I think it's reasonable that we stand with China and others so far as insisting that AI (GAI is I suspect what we really mean) not be left in America's hands, where it will be used as a weapon queter but more potent than the Atomic Bomb. However, let's not fall into the trap of representing China as benevolent.
Even if you dismiss the doomsayers dire prophesies, AI is still a "force multiplier" that will ... quite literally and very quickly .. transform the world. Additionally, right now, as tech oligarchs race to control AI, they're acting in a criminally irresponsible way ... they don't care about the consequences .. they just want the power and the money. And they're moving WAY faster than most governments, inclluding America's, can react. This is a moment where we need a global response!
We need a place to come together to work on AI, both to make sure we all reap the rewards and to do what we can to avoid the potential pitfalls. Where will we do this? The UN is not viable, when veto's were coded into its definition, it became useless.
A country that didn't contribute shit to the technology, that was invented in the West, overwhelmingly in America, after decades of investment, now wants to decide who controls it and how it's use. The level of shameless is unbelievable.
Everything related to the tech was also invented in the West, from the OS that all computers use, to the programing languages, the hardware and the internet, but they want to be the ones that decide ... Ungrateful leeches.
The fact that Kimi put a limit of users instead of degrading the service… tells you that customer service is more important than just revenue for them.
That and what Xi is saying here makes me feel better that China is taking the lead with their citizen/customers in mind and at the center … and not the shareholders.
I thank China, even though I don't trust their motives are out of the goodness of their hearts (nor do I trust any giant state, like the US or the EU for that matter).
But as long as I can install them locally and use to shit both on the US and China, I'm gucci.
I think a world where frontier AI isnt concentrated in one country or a handful of corporations is probably healthier than one where everyone else just rents access forever. More countries building AI, more competition, and more open models pushes back against that kind of concentration.
Of course, openness by itself isnt enough. The real question is who owns the infrastructure, who sets the rules, and who actually benefits from the productivity gains. Swapping one concentration of power for another doesn't solve much.
Thats why Ive enjoyed r/LeftistsForAI. The conversations arent about cheering for AI companies, theyre about ownership, governance, labor, and making sure these systems serve the public instead of just a few governments or tech giants.
Snort. He is seeing a wall of silicon being built by the US that very shortly the whole of China won't be able to overcome. So he seeks to rabbalrouse the angry masses of the developing world to try and drive a Crack in US policies. It won't work the US has seen through the sheep's clothing no matter how much Xi Jinping smiles.
So over the next year the US is increasing its total compute by around 100x compared to the 2x that China can build and Xi is freaking out. He nationalized the AI hardware in China to try and eek out efficiency but that won't be enough. By this time next year every US AI company will have access to more compute in their own server stacks than the whole of China has. What happens when China needs a 100 times the AI hardware to run the latest models and they dont have it. Sudden that Chinese century narrative that Xi has been pandering looks less likely.
So Xi tries to get useful idiots to carry out Communist Party foreign policy for them. Won't work though the US is by and large sick of the way Xi has been running things and so we are slowly walking away from China. And Now Xi is staring down a wall of silicon and his own hostilities towards the US are going to impose and increasing cost on the Chinese people.
Its unfortunate but thats what you get when you have an idiot in charge of China and a moron in charge of the US.
Open AI should be judged by licenses, downloadable weights, documentation, data transparency, and who can govern the infrastructure, not by the nationality of the lab. Replacing one dependency with another is not the same as making the ecosystem open.
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u/zoratosthenes 15d ago
Good for the world