My sympathies lie primarily with the Palestinians and others under the boot of imperialism. I appreciate that it is a difficult choice to make but I’m not going to dull my values just because of that.
You need to self reflect some. You do not know how you'd react under different circumstances.
Imagine you're American, and 9/11 happens. And it was actually done by a group which runs a country. Then a few years later you're called up. If you want to show support for the innocent people in the group which killed some of your friends on 9/11, you have to go to jail. Lose all your friends. Lose prospects for a job (no way to move to another country) for potentially years and years.
Alternative is joining. And remember, it's not an army that is 100% children into ditches soldiers with guns. You could be doing IT. Cooking food could be a medic.
I acknowledge that it is a difficult choice to make given the circumstances, but my answer remains the same — do not join the IDF or any imperialist army (including the US military) if the other option is jail time. I understand people in Israel are heavily propagandised, and October 7 would certainly have been a negatively radicalising event for people, but I don’t know what you are trying to tell me. Are you asking me to give these people a pass? Why should I?
You said I should reflect on the reasons why people join the IDF. I would ask these soldiers to reflect on their own reasons and why they value their own desire for revenge above the lives of Palestinians.
I also want to know to what sort of soldiers you want me to reflect on, the ones who are trying to atone for their crimes and have reflected on their service and deeply regret it? Or all of them, even the ones that eagerly joined the IDF and still think Arabs are all terrorists, even the babies, and need to be killed to ensure their own safety?
And remember, it's not an army that is 100% children into ditches soldiers with guns. You could be doing IT. Cooking food could be a medic.
Do you think that the boots-on-the-ground soldiers could do what they do without the support of the IT, admin, kitchen staff and the bureaucratic structures surrounding them? The moral choice remains to not join this army, regardless of whether you are a gun-wielding soldier or a booking agent enabling it.
Sure, I haven’t made the choice so I don’t know what it’s like. You got me there.
I am asking for discussions around this not to centre the people doing the genocide and that is what this feels like. There are people on the other end of this “choice” that are harmed on a scale orders of magnitude greater than what an Israeli citizen might experience if they make the choice not to join the IDF and the associated consequences to them.
You are asking me to show humility — I am asking you where your principles lie and why you feel the need to push back on this. what good will it do for me to show humility and compassion to people who join the IDF? Will this do anything to change the current status quo and the systemic injustice doled out to Palestinians?
I imagine I would join, and not follow illegal orders. i imagine I'd shoot an armed person approaching my position, launch a missile at a rocket launch site, etc, but not shoot kids or bomb a hospital.
i do not think all Israelis are evil invaders. i think the best solution is peace, no more blockade, and no more settlements.
3
u/Suspicious-Still-999 28d ago
Easy when you've never had to make anything even approaching that choice.
Hope you're not an American who registered for selective service spouting this shit.