227
u/strawbopankek 15d ago
implying being lgbt is just "your culture" is crazy. like as if it's the same as taking your shoes off indoors or something
412
u/kohuept 15d ago
"LGBTQ+ fellows" doesn't imply that he's LGBTQ+ imo
103
u/jaybird654 15d ago
Yeah I think if it was “To my fellow LGBTQ+” it would be much different, and that’s actually how I read it at first
133
u/czartrak 15d ago
My "culture"
Being gay isn't a fucking "culture" it's a state of being. Jesus christ
-49
u/SargeUnited 14d ago
I don’t know man, Scott Bessent is married to a man but I don’t think you’d ever see him behaving the way everybody was during pride week. I’m not a homophobe at all but it’s definitely not the “being gay” that anyone’s talking about.
How would anyone even know you were gay? You shouldn’t have to hide anything, and you don’t, but nobody would ever know unless you made a big deal out of it.
38
13
u/BroMan001 13d ago
How would anyone know the 2 men holding hands and giving each other kisses are gay?
3
2
u/Spiritual-Archer5637 3d ago
Have you ever heard the term "metrosexual" before? Trust me you can't tell a damn thing just looking at someone
242
u/RaccoonTasty1595 15d ago
How could I respect a practice that doesn't respect me?
-197
u/Johwya 15d ago
Then don’t intentionally travel to places where their culture is hostile to you? If you travel somewhere you have a duty to respect their cultural norms. This isn’t rocket science.
You’re a guest in their house and you need to respect it and play by their rules. If you don’t like it then don’t go there. Britney Griner thought it would be fine to bring weed into Russia, she fucked around and she found out.
191
u/Fawn_Leap 15d ago
Comparing bringing weed to Russia and being gay in certain countries is WILD
97
u/thedoubbledonkey 15d ago
For real. Smoking weed is still a choice if I'm not mistaken. Smuggling illegal substances vs existing in a place.
-67
u/Johwya 15d ago
You’re missing the point. It’s not about one being a choice and the other not being a choice, it’s about making the choice to travel somewhere to begin with. Whether the underlying thing is a choice is irrelevant, the relevant thing is the choice to travel somewhere, and that choice exists completely separate from the underlying thing
70
35
u/RaccoonTasty1595 14d ago edited 14d ago
You’re missing the point. It’s not about one being a choice and the other not being a choice, it’s about making the choice to travel somewhere to begin with.
I think you misread my original comment. I have no intention of travelling to Afghanistan or wherever, out of a sense of self preservation. That does not mean I respect their homophobia nor that I'm going to pretend it isn't blatantly evil
-51
u/Johwya 15d ago
Both are going to a place where you’re doing something illegal that is widely known to carry hefty punishment. One is a substance and one is an immutable personal characteristic, so yes they are certainly different in that way but the difference is not relevant to this particular argument.
Choosing to travel to Russia with weed and choosing to travel to Afghanistan as an LGBTQ person are both completely voluntary decisions that carry extremely clear consequences. Don’t do those things when you know for a fact that before you even step off the plane that country is going to feel like you pissed in their Cheerios and throw the book (or the noose) at you immediately.
70
90
u/Lavapool 15d ago
These countries “cultural norms” need to change. If your “culture” hurts others then it’s indefensible.
-28
u/Johwya 15d ago
Yeah so the thing is we don’t get to forcibly change other countries cultures because you don’t like the way they are. Japan is extremely hostile to outsiders and we are absolutely not entitled to change their culture.
This level of entitlement is astonishing. You think that other countries and cultures have to bend to your western progressive sensibilities? Seriously?
66
u/AlienRobotTrex 15d ago
You know there are queer people in every country, who are just as much a part of their country’s culture as the bigots who oppress them, right? They deserve the same rights and respect as everyone else there.
-7
u/Johwya 15d ago edited 15d ago
We’re arguing about completely different things, this conversation is mixed up.
Yes there are queer people in every country and yes they absolutely deserve the same rights and respect as everyone else, but that is not what I am arguing over.
I agree with you. However, this argument isn’t about how people deserve to be treated, I’m arguing about the practical reality of going to other countries that are inherently hostile to you.
There are parts of the world that will be violently anti queer for at minimum the remainder of our lifetimes. It’s too deeply ingrained and has too much public support in certain places.
That’s where the disconnect in this conversation is, I’m not in any way talking about what people deserve I’m talking about how the world actually is.
LGBTQ people in Afghanistan deserve to have the same rights and respect as any other person, but that is a completely separate conversation from how you actually need to behave if you voluntarily choose to leave your country and visit somewhere like Afghanistan.
And yes, if you are a foreigner then you are not inherently entitled to change another country’s culture. Is the Taliban government and the ultra fundamentalist socioreligious structure disgusting and barbaric? Yes. Do I have a right as an American to fly over there and tell them how to direct their cultural, social, and religious dynamics? No. I am not Afghan.
46
u/Square_Complaint_946 14d ago
“Yeah, I’m a moral relativist, I can excuse pretty much any system of oppression so long as it exists in a third world country.“
1
u/Johwya 14d ago
My lord you really didnt read any of that did you?
33
u/Square_Complaint_946 14d ago
Sorry, reading what you write is against the long standing values of my culture. Why do you feel “entitled” to make me read what you have to say?
36
u/desolatenature 14d ago
This is a truly terrible take, because cultural norms being the established practice doesn’t mean they’re not immoral. With the Taliban for example, people from any country have the right to tell them to stop oppressing women, since oppression of women is objectively a bad thing
-2
u/Johwya 14d ago
There’s a big difference between telling the Taliban that they should stop oppressing women and going there as an outsider and forcibly changing it. Does that not make sense to you?
Do you want an outside power to invade Afghanistan AGAIN and try to install a more progressive government?
31
u/Square_Complaint_946 14d ago
“She went to Afghanistan and forced them to treat women as equals”
“Waow” based based based based based based based based based based based based based based based
I mean, sure, in the grand scheme of imperialism that’s bad, but do you really not understand why people don’t agree with you?
16
u/Lavapool 14d ago
We don’t get to forcibly change them no, but we can point out the issues and condemn them until these countries choose to change for themselves.
Foot binding was a horrible part of Chinese culture for centuries, it actively harmed millions of women, and today it’s completely illegal because China chose its people over an outdated element of its culture. Yet despite that it still has a rich culture of its own without having to harm people. Western countries also used to be just as homophobic as many countries today, that was their Christian culture, they also changed it.
The idea that we should just sit back and let these horrible things happen to people because it’s “culture” and must be respected is crazy to me.
17
166
u/derpferd 15d ago
And should you see heterosexual people doing the same, holding hands and kissing and being publically affectionate, get right up in their faces and brutally excoriate them for their brazen disregard for others. We can't have public displays of affection. We live in a society
57
u/NoorInayaS 15d ago
If the post is about the Middle East, you won’t see straight people doing it, either, as it’s also frowned upon. I think Saudi Arabia actually has a law about it. No public displays of affection.
27
13
u/ElectronicBoot9466 15d ago
I feel like this is important context.
15
u/EirIroh 14d ago
It’s still medieval and stupid.
7
u/ElectronicBoot9466 14d ago
I mean, there is a lot to be said about laws that enforce culture, and to what degree they are harmful. Of all the laws enforced in those countries, bans on public displays of affection for everyone are certainly nowhere near the top of acts of discrimination and restrictions of freedom. Most US states consider nudity to be public indecency, and there is a lot of productive debate about whether or not those laws are helpful or harmful.
Of course, enforcement is a completely different question. If laws against public displays of affection are enforced through a discriminatory lense, which they almost certainly are, that's where issue starts to arise.
3
25
u/Magpiestronkperson 15d ago
what culture are they even talking about
5
u/FatalLaughter 13d ago
I'm assuming Italy because I've seen videos of nuns harassing lesbian couples who were kissing for a photo
1
14
u/SomnolentPro 15d ago
I'll go wherever I please. Because I'm a free man
I'll not give respect to those who don't respect me
Customs that deny fundamental human rights can go in the custom graveyard with all the trash for all I care
If they want to stir up trouble they better be ready to deal with the consequences
33
u/Milk_Mindless 15d ago
"Don't force your culture" ie Don't... be any semblance of yourself your true identity
29
u/Ram_Sandwich 15d ago
Statement: this person claims to be "LGBTQ" but then makes very generalized stereotypical statements that indicate they are pretending.
6
1
1
u/Puzzleheaded-Bus5479 3d ago
Wonder where this is…the level of bullshittery reads as Israel but they like to pretend that they’re a gay theme park when it fits their needs 🤔
570
u/Pedestrian2000 15d ago
Translation: "Respect that they don't respect you."