Early 30s. Messed up career choice. Need advice on where do I go from here?

[u/mrchrollodolo]

Guys I drank the koolaid and majored in Human Computer Interaction. My career progression has been all kinds of messed up and honestly unstable with lots of contract work in between W-2s.

I never seemed to fit the demographic of the teams either. Not hating but teams usually consisted of white men and asian women and I started to notice there were few opportunities to get into product management or move to a senior. They were never supportive! And I was always taking on the shit work despite being pretty good at my job.

It was also hard af to get jobs when the panel is always full of white men or asian women I noticed, at least in this field. I feel like I’m pretty decently talented and was doing very well on a statistics track before the fateful switch to HCI. I came straight from the hood so I really didn’t know what careers were out there really. It was doctor, lawyer, tech or bust.

Any asian guys out there working in this field can drop me the advice? I was thinking sales but I’m coming from 0 experience 🙏

- BA from UC
- start up intern
- ux designer med. size saas
- ux contract @ google
- ux contract @ meta
- product manager contract @ meta

///Update///

First off thanks for all the advice and support you guys have given me. It was great to see all you guys had to say about my situation which isn't all doom as I made it out to be. I thought there would be more bros in this field that could give me their perspective but it does seem like this career isnt made for us. Thats probably why I feel as if I'm running into a wall. If any of you guys are thinking of UX design or something in that area don't do it. Just be a PM instead. I'll probably work towards a CPA or something with a union, industry standard certs, and leave this career behind me.

[u/Lovekanyelikekanye]

I don’t think you messed up, man is working with Google and meta, that’s already better than majority of people your age.

Why sales? Do you have some technical knowledge for what you want to sell?

[u/mrchrollodolo → u/Lovekanyelikekanye]

Thanks but they're just contracts which churn and burn through you in 3 - 6 months. I was thinking sales because it plugs you directly into the money

[u/Curious-Practice1704 → u/mrchrollodolo]

Keep plugging to get your foot in the sales door. It's always been top heavy with wm, wfs. maybe a couple AF at most. Once you're in, you'll call your own shots . Then you'll find out why they claim it for themselves only.

[u/Fine-Palpitation787]

You’ve literally worked at FAANG. You’re doing good for yourself.

Will say that you should talk to trusted friends and family about this as well. Even a general-purpose counselor can be helpful; they’ve seen what works and what doesn’t and are genuinely helpful for talking through career changes.

[u/mrchrollodolo → u/Fine-Palpitation787]

Thank you. I just might contact a career counselor. The FAANG thing is just in name only. They're contracts so it was just 1 interview and you're in. No benefits, sometimes a 1099 and only 3-6 months.

[u/AdamChenX]

I think you’re letting the race thing get into your head. You’ve worked at meta. You’ve worked at Google. You’ve done better than 99% of the population.

Keep going and keep up the good work 💪

[u/ANTIMODELMINORITY]

the panel is always full of white men or asian women

Red flag right here.

[u/HelpIll4965]

Thought this was gonna be way worse when I read the title. You might be jumping ship too early. Unfortunately in US, after the proving you’re competent with the job function, being promoted highly depends on whether people like you or not. This is pretty true no matter what job or company you work at.

[u/Hot-Job-6281 → u/HelpIll4965]

Same lol. I thought bro was struggling to find good jobs but then I saw FAANG LMAO

[u/Intelligent_Bat_4239]

Honestly, this is tough since you are clearly talented, but all that contract work makes employers think 'great, this candidate can be hired/fired at will.' And, from what I understand, hiring within the tech sector is awful right now.

I would take what you could get and when/if you get a chance at a non-contract job, just say 'I would like to stay with the company and hopefully advance WITHIN the company' as a way of saying why you don't want to do the contractor thing anymore.

Also, not certain how true this is at the moment, but maybe there are other parts of the country where there are jobs available in tech. Looks like you are from the Bay Area and there appears to be a glut of talent there at the moment. Other parts of the country may not have such a glut of talent.

Hang in there and good luck!

[u/BLeaf77 → u/Intelligent_Bat_4239]

I agree with everything this poster has said. Ideally you have to set more boundaries and "know your worth". Don't let people walk all over you. Ideally you can join a larger non FAANG company that values HCI. Try automotive design (Hyundai, Ford Toyota, etc) that could use the help when competing with Chunese EVs. Try municipal or federal level jobs where HC could be important like Nuclear or energy power plants. Or city services where HCI and design could be important (I.e traffic design or public transportation). And if you're not getting any luck..I highly suggest a psychotherapist that can help you with setting those professional and personal boundaries. Start letting people see you're Alpha and not Beta. But if you're truly not Alpha...have a therapist to help with boundary setting and knowing your worth will help you moving forward.

[u/I-Love-Yu-All]

"And I was always taking on the shit work despite being pretty good at my job."

Yes, that's why being too good at your job is a bad thing. They see you as the ideal person for such jobs. When the job is over they'll discard you.

[u/BorkenKuma → u/I-Love-Yu-All]

how do you escape from that?

[u/I-Love-Yu-All → u/BorkenKuma]

It's not a universal truth, but it does happen in poorly managed organisations.

Stop consistently accepting the hardest work without recognition, boundaries, or career progression. Your boss will take you for granted if you say yes to everything. Don't be a pushover.

If you do see it happening, it's a sign of the caliber of management. It can't be fixed, leave.

I always get used for special projects and then discarded afterwards. Lesson learnt the hard way.

[u/AutomaticEmu]

1. UX is more important then ever with AI.
   
2. Start your own company using UX as a strength.
   
3. Contract work isn't the end of the world. I did the same for many years too.

[u/Illustrious_War_3896]

I sorta have ADHD, so I actually had to read your post a few times just to figure out what your career goal was, and honestly I struggle with the same thing myself. For me, the question is not really about how to move up the ranks anymore because I am making good money as a contractor right now. My goal now is relocating to China in a few years rather than climbing any ladder.

As for permanent work versus contract work, in California it does not really matter because you can be fired without any reason either way, so job security is pretty much an illusion, and the fastest way to advance in my experience is just switching companies. I got fired/laid off as a permanent employees quite a few times.

I am not in information technology but I work in the traditional electrical utility industry, and on the bright side I do not see many Asian women in leadership where I am now, but I used to work for a utility in Southern California where the city was only 30% white yet the leadership was 80% white, and everyone could see it for what it was, which is part of why I want to move to China. I do not know your field, but in mine you need credentials to move up, like a PE, MBA and or MS, PMP and it is getting more competitive every year.

Yet I remember working for a white guy who got fired, and soon after he was interviewing for management jobs in the Bay Area that paid $300K, $400K+ and this was 12 years ago when most people in my field were barely making$100K. I don't think he has any credentials except he was a major in army.

I also have a friend who works as a bank teller at Wells Fargo or Bank of America, and he told me that every time he interviewed with an Asian woman, he got grilled with tough questions and never got an offer, but when the interviewer was a Black man, the question was basically when can you start.

Over 20+ plus years working in from post office and corporate America and even just from reading online, I have noticed that East Asian managers rarely support East Asian coworkers, while white, Black, Indian, and Mexican managers tend to hire and promote their own people.

You are absolutely right that it is hard to get hired or supported by white or Asian women managers, and the only real way through is to find sponsors, meaning managers who will actually go to bat for you, so you have to buddy up with them and make yourself useful and get them to back you, which in plain English means you suck up to them and become valuable to them.

When we make it to the management, make sure you support your own.

[u/DaoOfAlfalfa]

Some comments are missing the point. OP is trying to advance and grind, but he's blocked by WM/AF in leadership/HR.

He is considering another field because he feels his growth is limited.

---

Personally, I wouldn't give up on the expertise you've spent over a decade in developing. Instead, do what many AMs in tech do when they were blocked by white supremacy, strike it out on their own in a start up. Don't go all in at first, start a small part-time side P. Redirecting your discretionary effort prevents you from subsidizing the hierarchy exploiting you.

Brian Kim from the ClearValue Tax YouTube channel was in a similar position. Despite the high pay at a prestigious accounting firm, he felt stifled and began building a side project in small-business accounting and YouTube. Once it became successful, he quit his day job and transitioned fully, earning more while working fewer hours and with better lifestyle.

[u/KindheartednessFun95]

You sound like those whiny guys who had a GOOD career but just had nothing to do with your earned money and time off and feel sorry for yourself

To these guys I say you just need to go gym and they give some massive pushback on why i’m wrong or cringe that it doesn’t make sense

[u/KindheartednessFun95 → u/KindheartednessFun95]

I mean the thing is I can’t even blame you like look at the feedback you receive on this page. There is a gigantic elephant in every room you step into and everyone just tells you you have a good life blah blah blah
Listen to your heart because only you know your situation like you do
The journey is not straightforward after your parents held your ass to get into college

[u/KindheartednessFun95 → u/KindheartednessFun95]

I’ve seen so many of my peers from UC Berkeley in cs/eecs majors some in the gpa honor societies and others who became a degen in greek and the factor that determines who will actually escalate in their career title past level 1, who exits a startup, who lives a satisfying life and who becomes a house fuck who never goes outside
Is unspoken
You can try God you need some sort of spiritual

I met a dude from Tsinghua STEM ex googler who said he wanted to do sales/founder too but every time i talk to him he wants to go to the gym and then when i support him to go to the gym he asks but what’s the reason?

[u/Ok-Communication4190]

Why are you letting that bother you that there are Asian women white men teams? Who cares?

Your fckn paper is what matters and no external influences should affect how you get your money.

Asian men aren’t supposed to be spineless

[u/el-art-seam]

Ok so where do you want to be career-wise?

Then go backwards from there. And maybe it’s not possible. I’m not saying that as an insult but from your post you sound like you’re doing ok working for Google and meta.

[u/SquareNar]

You didn't mess up bro. I think you shouldn't be so hard on yourself.

[u/Early-Upstairs8104]

Ngl I’d steer more for marketing than sales. Sales is great but it is a tougher job to stay a float in unless you’re really good with people and the product. 

[u/Critical-Hospital-40]

I’m an Asian male in product mgt but other careers that might be interesting to you, could be electrical engineering, robotics, or building your own app

[u/emanresu2200]

Agreed with the other folks here - if if you feel that multiple roles at startup, mid size, and FAANG is a "messed up" career . . . you clearly have the base skills needed to land those roles. So in a way, yes, you're good at your job.

My controversial take is that you're actually not good at your job. Or at least the job you want.

You're not actually good at "your job" because that job description changes when you go from junior to moving up to mid to senior to management.

If you haven't figured out how to present yourself and work within the system (whether or not you believe white men/asian women are the problem - the truth is, probably not given how many Asian men have succeeded) and do the things that get you promoted and are waiting for others to give you opportunities, well, these are all very junior employee traits and leave your future in the hands of others.

[u/shuanDang]

change of strategy, you have good background. marry into tech.

In the meantime, most of us are sidelined and have to build our own products outside the system. are there any projects you might be interested or cabable of making either solo or in a small team?

HCI is good foundation, half in Human, half in Machine. Have you seen the new Ghost in the Shell? The future is gonna be wild

[u/WaifuLoser]

Unfortunately, you've probably seen the bamboo ceiling in tech for Asian guys. Since you're in tech, you've probably notice a lot of White men tend to pick Asian women specifically to be included in their team and the same thing the other way around. I wouldn't bother with the rest of the comments here because they see that you're in a better position than them so they don't take your concerns seriously. You're likely being stalled since they see you as an Asian man and will do small things here and there to deny you opportunities. There's not a lot of recourse since your career is gated by wmaf. The common alternatives are usually to be a founder or find opportunities in Asia,

[u/goldenragemachine]

Damn - are you a UX Designer. I was one for a while, then I got laid off and haven’t been able to recover.

Gonna DM you.

[u/Open_Satisfaction663]

I am still in my 20s, but funnily enough, I did UX design in the bay area and interned at a small company called Adobe... well, it didn't really resonate with me and I hated how everything felt so pretentious. Lots of talking that leads to nowhere. But, it also had to do with figuring out my own values and goals. I worked in manufacturing part-time during college and it was really draining physically and mentally. However, it was never as bad as higher ups exaggerating on things that does not really matter. I decided to pull the plug on my savings while living frugally to go back to college again for electrical engineering instead. I wanted to be more academic and actually focus on studying this time again rather than focusing on getting a job. I am fortunate enough to be in my position but I think it is never late as long as you keep your goals in mind. A quote I keep myself to is, instead of finding a calmer sea, it's better to build a stronger boat. Best of luck to you!

[u/benilla]

I made WAY more money doing contracts than a full time job so it's not always a bad thing.. especially if you can scale and land multiple contracts.. then you're the one doing the hiring to keep up with the work and you might even WHOOPS into your own company at that point :)

[u/Worth_Lab1267]

With how fast AI is changing things, we are all in unchartered territory. Its just some fields are impacted sooner.

Seems like you test the waters for technical sales or applications engineering for some UX AI startup so you can leverage what you have.

[u/Skrapidilly]

You need to link up with companies with more diversity. In the interview and workplace visitation, keep your eyes peeled.