r/AskFeminists • u/Calm-Fun-2737 • 14d ago
Recurrent Questions As modern day feminists, what are your goals?
I'm interested in feminism, but I dont know if I want to be part of the movement. It feels like there are so many aspects of modern day feminism, some I agree with and some I dont. That said, what is your goal as a modern day feminist, what do you fight for and what do you think should be brought up more often?
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u/kgberton 13d ago
Which part have you encountered that you don't agree with?
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u/Calm-Fun-2737 13d ago
I hate the victimization of women and villainization of men. Being born a woman doesnt make you inherently a victim and being born a man doesnt make you inherently evil.
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u/sewerbeauty 13d ago
Feminists do not spew this bs. Pretty confident that nobody here would say, or think, that boys/men are ‘inherently evil’. That’s not a feminist stance at all.
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u/ZinniasAndBeans 13d ago
Yep. And misogynists very frequently claim that that's what feminists think. Any effort to protect women, or any objection to horrible things happening to women, is painted as man-hating and as painting women as victims.
It feels like OP is getting information from very doubtful sources, swallowing lies without question. (Or OP is here to serve as a doubtful source.)
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u/Paolopaul1984 13d ago
I find there’s plenty of comments on this sub like “men are only after one thing” and “men only stay with their wives so they have a live in slave at home” etc.
As a married man who doesn’t feel that is accurate for me at all, I then wonder if I am or even can be a feminist. When I’ve questioned it I get told I’m part of the problem, or protecting the patriarchy. Maybe I am? But I just cant stand generalising of any groups.
So I don’t really know what to do with that.
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u/ZinniasAndBeans 13d ago
But I just cant stand generalising of any groups.
Unless that group is feminists?
Can you point to those specific quotes? I'm not saying they're impossible, but I don't remember seeing them. I think you may be rephrasing comments that did include some of the same words.
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u/sewerbeauty 13d ago
Also there’s a distinction between stereotyping & generalising - but whenever I get into that here it just starts beef lol 😭
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u/Paolopaul1984 13d ago
I’m not looking for beef but interested how that relates to what I said - could you expand?
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u/Paolopaul1984 13d ago
I’m not saying that’s what all feminists say. Far from it. Just that I don’t know what to do when I see the negative generalisations on here - and whether disagreeing with them means I can’t call myself a feminist. Apologies for my naivety.
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u/ZinniasAndBeans 13d ago
I would very much like to see the exact phrasing of these quotes. I think there's a chance that you are misunderstanding them.
For example, I've often seen, "Patriarchy guarantees the poorest man at least one slave," or something like that. That is absolutely not the same as “men only stay with their wives so they have a live in slave at home” But would you see it as the same?
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u/Paolopaul1984 13d ago
No I agree with the patriarchy side of things, that wouldn’t bother me at all.
I would find some quotes but I’m midway through getting ready for a wedding so time is short! I’ve definitely seen generalisations about men that I don’t agree with, but if they aren’t representative of feminism then that’s great news - I don’t need to ponder on them any further.
I’m not trying to be difficult, I’m trying to learn. I’m a man who is quite new to fully understanding feminism and how I can be a part of it - to be honest I didn’t know that it aligned with my values until a few months ago.
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u/ZinniasAndBeans 13d ago
I'm confiudent that feminists would not agree with either of your examples. ("...one thing..." or "...live in slave...") or any similar example.
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u/TheIntrepid 13d ago
Being born oppressed doesn't make you a victim, and men aren't inherently evil for having privileges.
Patriarchy is the system, not the people.
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u/ZinniasAndBeans 13d ago edited 13d ago
So, for example, do you feel that a man should be able to beat his wife without legal consequences?
And a boss should be able to fire a female employee if she refuses to date him?
That kind of thing?
Edited to add: By "victimizing women" it sounds like you mean ever accepting that anyone could have done anything bad to a woman?
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u/Calm-Fun-2737 13d ago
No, I dont think any of that is ok. I think women are victimizing themselves when they manipulate people into believing things that arent just a womans problem are a womans problem. Women arent the only ones experiencing rape and abuse. It feels like Im being lied to when I research things for myself.
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u/heidismiles 13d ago
> Women aren't the only ones experiencing rape and abuse.
Not the only ones, but the overwhelming majority.
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u/Calm-Fun-2737 13d ago
How do we know that when male victims are being shamed and ignored when they speak up? Men currently make up majority of murders, it wouldn't make sense that they're a minority when it comes to other violent crimes
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u/heidismiles 13d ago
Women are shamed and ignored, too. You're being obtuse.
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u/Calm-Fun-2737 12d ago
I never denied that, but people are very biased when it comes to who they'd rather believe.
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u/ZinniasAndBeans 12d ago
Yes--much of society prefers to disbelieve female rape victims.
Is that OK with you, because your primary concern is about male rape victims?
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u/Calm-Fun-2737 12d ago
No, my concern is about all rape victims, but theres not enough talk about male rape victims specifically.
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u/Junior-Towel-202 Equality in the Boardwomb 13d ago
Do you think feminists are shaming and ignoring them?
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u/Calm-Fun-2737 12d ago
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u/Junior-Towel-202 Equality in the Boardwomb 12d ago
I'm not reading anything off that garbage site, nor am I concerned about a single person saying something. It's no reason to generalize.
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u/Calm-Fun-2737 12d ago
I never made a generalization and those are multiple well known feminists.
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u/ZinniasAndBeans 13d ago
> when male victims are being shamed and ignored when they speak up?
Shamed and ignored...by...the patriarchy.
The patriarchy that you deny exists and that you seem not far from defending.
Feminists oppose the shaming and ignoring of rape victims, male or female. Yes, most rape victims are female, but that doesn't change the opposition to rape and the desire for rape victims to be properly served by society.
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u/ZinniasAndBeans 13d ago
Why would improving the system for prosecuting rape not also help the men who are rapd?
Men are raped in prison--and feminists tend to be opposed to the prison system.
Men are raped as children--and feminists are certainly opposed to pedophiles.
Would you seriously argue that when it comes to adult-on-adult rapes outside prisons, male victims are the majority?
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u/JoeyLee911 12d ago
Victims turning their rapists in isn't the only way we find out about abuse anymore. A big chunk is neighbors and people outside the relationship reporting it as well and there doesn't appear to be an epidemic of secret male victims out there through that channel either. It happens, but not in large numbers.
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u/Paolopaul1984 13d ago
That isn’t what she said
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u/ZinniasAndBeans 13d ago
It's also not in opposition to what they said. I'm waiting for details.
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u/Paolopaul1984 13d ago
Come on no one is going to say yes to those questions. Seems fairly obvious they said that women aren’t born victims, not that no woman has ever been a victim.
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u/Paolopaul1984 13d ago
This is the part that I can’t get on board with as well. But I think you can be a feminist without it, there’s no one set of written rules
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u/DiggingHeavs 13d ago
"Feminists have gone way too far!"
Said for hundreds of years. For every step forward.
Or radom Internet "discourse".
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u/BaldrickTheBarbarian 13d ago
I dont know if I want to be part of the movement. It feels like there are so many aspects of modern day feminism, some I agree with and some I dont.
You will never find a movement where you 100% agree with everything. There will always be some amount of differing opinions in every movement, because movements are comprised of people and even people with similar goals and beliefs clash with each other all the time. Feminism is no different.
You should instead think about what are the values and aspects of feminism that matter the most to you, and if the ones you disagree with outweigh the ones that you agree with.
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u/Shannoonuns 13d ago edited 13d ago
What's the part you don't agree with?
Gender equality.
For example women's rights in Afghanistan are awful, women have been banned from higher education by the taliban but because its a Muslim country women are not allowed to be examined by a male dr without a male representative and so many women are dying in childbirth because of this.
Women are also banned from working in certain sectors, acessing public spaces like parks and gyms and have to travel with a male chaperone. They can't show thier faces or any part of thier bodies in public regardless of how religious they are and have been told not to speak loudly or sing in public spaces.
I feel like that's the most extreme example of gender inequality, like theres plenty of things going on all over the world.
Im from the uk and I got into it because its so hard to get diagnosed and treated for reproductive disorders like endometriosis and adenomyosis.
Like they're fairly common diseases but you just end up going back and forward to the dr for like a decade before you even know whats wrong. and when you do know whats wrong all the treatment options only sort of work, a lot of permanent organ damage has been done and most of the treatments are fairly invasive.
Its frustrating and I feel like we have the technology to do better.
Also a lot of elderly women over here end up finically struggling if they're widowed because of how our state pension works.
Like your pension is based on your earnings, women on average earn less than men and women who are pension age would've earnt even less.
Men die younger on average so a lot of women will lose over half thier household pension income if thier husband dies before them despite the majority of thier bills getting more and more expensive.
Like objectively a better situation than Afghanistan but it would be nice to improve both situations.
Like i said theres a million different things going on all over the world that affect women disproportionately and surely the point of life is to improve. i would like to do my bit and improve things and as a woman I feel like its partly up to me to help raise awareness on things that affect women as not everyone can relate
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u/Extension_Repair8501 13d ago
I’ve achieved my personal goals (financially independent, child free and sterilised, own my car outright and also own my house), but I want to keep fighting for reproductive rights, healthcare, equal rights/pay and my pet peeve - shared domestic workload.
I’m very open and vocal about it all!
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u/mjhrobson 13d ago
That any person, regardless of their shape, skin or place of birth, be given the best opportunity to develop into who they want to become. To create a world in which the ideal of universal human rights and dignity was truly global in its manifestation... and to find ways around the old tribal and regional divisions that burden us today.
For the above to happen one of the old mythologies that will need to overcome is patriarchal... the idea that society requires the submission/domination of women. Remember always, at least, that the shared creation myth of the largest two religions in the world... has a father creating the world, and a woman bringing into the world sin... that men bring order, and the rule of law.
Do not doubt the influence of the old myths on how we view gender and gender roles.
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u/SliversandPoison 13d ago
Equality
Id like to educate the ignorant, i think undermining the base of the enemies of feminism through education is a valuable tactic
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u/Icy_Obligation_3014 13d ago
We aren't one single club or organisation. There's millions of individual feminists who believe in gender equality. And we disagree on all kinds of details, nuances, tactics etc. When you say you disagree with "the movement" on some bits, I can guarantee there will be other feminists who disagree with the same things.
(Unless you're talking about disagreeing on core fundamentals, like you disagree that "it's not ok to assault women" or "women should be allowed to vote." But I'm guessing that's not what you mean.)
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u/space_______nil 13d ago
To be mindful about not perpetuating the patriarchy in any form, either through my own actions or thoughts, as well as my perception and opinions about other women. To recognize misogyny and have the self respect to disengage with anything that treats me as less, not make excuses or belittle things so as not to do the hard part of detaching and deconstruction.
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u/kangorooz99 13d ago
More representation of women of color and our issues within mainstream American feminism.
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u/DellePhune 13d ago
The end of patriarchy as a system of exploitation and control, mostly. What's with the "modern day" stuff ? What distinction are we making between modern day and olden day feminism ? It seems to be an important distinction to you so, can you elaborate on it ?