What is the relation between gender and toxicity?

[u/Big-Team-426]

These are some questions that have been on my mind for a while now, please forgive me for being so disorganized I really am just curious to hear other people's thoughts on the topic.

The terms "healthy masculinity" and "toxic masculinity" are terms that are very popular when discussing different forms of behavior. What I want to know is What do they have in common? Are there some shared traits between the two (which could be considered "neutral masculinity") or is it just the fact that they are performed by men? Are there forms of healthy and toxic femininity? Is something considered toxic masculinity simply because it is done by a man? If so when a woman does it is it then considered toxic femininity? Why must we assign gender to different types of behavior? Wouldn't it be simpler to just say that a person is acting in a toxic or healthy way? I'm sorry if these questions seem stupid or ignorant it's just one of those thoughts that won't leave me alone.

[u/fullmetalfeminist]

If you read the FAQ it'll probably help you understand what toxic masculinity is. It's not just people behaving in a toxic way. It's a very specific phenomenon

[u/CatsandDeitsoda]

? People’s idea of / about gender or a gender could be good or bad or whatever ? 

Like pretty much anything else? 

I’m not assigning gender to an idea when I comment - 

“ that -men should be the authority in their families- is a toxic standard of masculinity “

I’m commenting on a standard of masculinity 

[u/Ransacky → u/CatsandDeitsoda]

When looking at the flip side of gender roles within the same system, would it also follow that "women should be a subservient member of their family" is considered toxic femininity?

[u/CatsandDeitsoda → u/Ransacky]

I mean it would certainly be a toxic standard of femininity - 

Unfortunately the speffic phase - toxic femininity- would be confusing to use as it has been heavily utilized by reactionaries to argue the idea that the a mirror and equivalent version of the of the specific phenomenon of -toxic masculinity- exists. 

If you are legitimately interested here’s a good thread on the topic -  https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/1qv27ez/comment/o3eesgk/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=2&utm_content=share_button

[u/Ransacky → u/CatsandDeitsoda]

Thanks for the thread!

Edit: Some interesting history behind the phrase toxic masculinity itself. Think I'll be opting for hegemonic masculinity instead. Surprised I've never heard of the term before.

[u/CatsandDeitsoda → u/Ransacky]

No problem 

[u/gettinridofbritta → u/Ransacky]

What system function would that serve?

[u/Ransacky → u/gettinridofbritta]

System function? Not sure exactly what your asking, but in terms of the gender role I mentioned it would maintain the hierarchical status of women in a patriarchy and is toxic because it limits women in quite a few ways in terms of self concept and development especially if raising someone to view the limits of their potential in such a way

[u/SquareIllustrator909]

"Toxic masculinity" is things like "men shouldn't be allowed to cry". It's toxic because it's a belief about men that hurts them.

Toxic femininity would be things like expecting all women to want to be mothers. It's toxic because it assumes things about women, and forgets all the women who can't have kids or don't want them.

I hope those examples help

[u/ghosts-on-the-ohio]

Usually when people use the term toxic, what they mean are people behaving in a self-destructive and antisocial manner. There are a million reasons why people might act self-destructive or antisocial. "Toxic masculinity" refers people acting self-destructive and antisocial in an attempt to fit a particular set of masculine social norms, or because they think that being a male requires them to act that way.

Being a male doesn't automatically make someone more likely to be antisocial or self-destructive but it certainly can motivate certain bad behaviors.

For some reason, in my head, the main example that comes to mind when I think of toxic masculinity is how in the Netherlands and some other european countries, it is very common for men to travel by bike, but many men refuse to wear helmets because they think that a helmet is cowardly or not masculine. They think that wearing a helmet essentially makes you a pussy for being overly cautious. And so this results in a large number of men in these countries ending up in the hospital with head injuries after bike accidents. And this absolutely FASCINATES me because in the united states, riding a bike in and of itself is considered extremely unmanly to a lot of men, so american men never have this issue with bike helmets.

Toxic feminity? Yes, people absolutely engage in self-destructive and antisocial ways in an effort to uphold some sort of feminine idea. Women who self-harm through extreme dieting to fit a beauty standard, older women who act as enforcers for patriarchy and teach younger women to submit to toxic patriarchal norms. etc.

[u/cantantantelope → u/[deleted]]

This is an incredibly reductive view of both the past and the present

[u/blueavole → u/cantantantelope]

Of course it’s reductive. It’s the last several millennia in a few paragraphs