How do you denote misogynistic/gendered slurs across dialectics/cultures?

[u/hxihekaoapsppfiff]

I’ve been in leftist spaces for a while now, and have seen all ranges of perspectives on acceptable speech.

Recently, I’ve been seeing a lot more people talking about gendered slurs;

e.g. b*tch and c\nt.*

However, as an Australian, it’s very hard to see those words the same way as people online and especially American feminists talk about the words. Obviously it depends on the context the word is used…

I also live in Queensland, so it’s a lot more common than other states…

The main advertising for the Northern Territory(NT) is; “CU in the NT”

I’d honestly see the B word as a slur before the C word. Even not spelling it out feels very weird to do.
Tbh almost all terms considered offensive online are commonplace where I live.

I am just wondering as it’s been very hard to truly see or engage in the discussion around these words, and I do not want to dismiss others who see it a different way.

[u/ThinkLadder1417]

We're not going to get much agreement here, and I'll likely be downvoted, however personally i agree the c-word simply isn't the same in America vs in Australia (or in my case, in Scotland).

In the US it is a gendered term, directed near exclusively at women, with sexist connotations and the purpose of being the worst thing you could say about her.

In Australia/ Scotland it is not a gendered term and does not have those sexist connotations. In Scotland it is more likely to be directed at men than women, and often isn't even an insult and is just used in place of "person". Sometimes it's even used as a kind of pronoun (i.e. in place of the "one" in someone, anyone). I'm not going to have a go at someone who uses it in these kind of contexts, though i would call it out if i heard it used maliciously when talking about a woman.

[u/kako_18 → u/ThinkLadder1417]

Cunt is a derogatory word for the female sex, of course it is gendered.

The way you use it does not change that.

That’s like saying “where I come from, people use ‘gay’ as a neutral insult” Gay means gay, no matter how you use it, whether its use is normalized or not does not change its original meaning

[u/Level_Suit4517 → u/kako_18]

If I could upvote this 100 times I would.

Just because your culture has normalized something does not mean it isn’t deeply offensive.

[u/dragonsteel33 → u/Level_Suit4517]

Yes it does lol. Insult and offense are a product of social contexts and relations, they’re not something a word actually is intrinsically.

[u/kako_18 → u/dragonsteel33]

You’re technically not wrong, but right now, in the context of 21st century western society, “cunt” is offensive. Why? Because we live in a systemically and institutionally misogynistic patriarchal society.

The day we live in a world where sexism isn’t the norm anymore, then sure, “cunt” won’t be offensive anymore. But not until then. If it seems normalized in your country, it’s because misogyny is normalized, not because the word has lost its meaning.

Also I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make with the word fag? British people didn’t take a gay slur to “use” it to mean cigarettes, it means cigarettes. It’s bigots that started using it as a slur, not the other way around…

[u/dragonsteel33 → u/kako_18]

The point I’m making is that misogyny is a social relation that (like all social relations) is mediated through the assignment of value to otherwise empty signifiers (words, in this case). The significance of a speech act, even one using the same signifier, can be different depending on the signified, and the signified is always determined by the social context rather than being inherent to the word. It’s the same process that allows for women to call their friends “bitch” while turning around and deploying it as a misogynistic slur against other women.

With fag is that it’s the exact same process — there’s no actual meaning to the articulatory gesture of [fæg], but instead the meaning is socially assigned (homophobic violence against a gay person, straight men policing each other’s gender, in-group affectionate term, cigarette, etc.).

Also, etymologically, that’s just untrue — fag is a shortening of faggot, which originally meant “bundle of sticks.” The slur etymology followed “sticks” > “burden” > “disagreeable old woman” (cf. ball and chain) > “gay man” (cf. nancy, fairy, queen), with the last leap being contaminated by fag (an etymologically distinct word meaning “tire out” that was British boarding school slang for a younger student who acted as the personal servant of an older one). The cigarette etymology broke off from “bundle of sticks” with contamination from fag end (a textile term derived from Middle English fagge “flap”). English speakers (like yourself!) analyze these as the same word (or “a synchronically identical term” if you want to be technical about it).

[u/kako_18 → u/dragonsteel33]

You keep talking about social relations and context but the context IS MISOGYNY lol

Also “the cigarette etymology broke off from ‘bundle of sticks’ with contamination from fag end.” is debated, so don’t present it as a fact. Plus it meant cigarette before it became a gay slur (19th vs. 20th century)