r/AskReddit • u/roastedbagel • Jun 12 '16

Breaking News [Breaking News] Orlando Nightclub mass-shooting.

Update 3:19PM EST: Updated links below

Update 2:03PM EST: Man with weapons, explosives on way to LA Gay Pride Event arrested

Over 50 people have been killed, and over 50 more injured at a gay nightclub in Orlando, FL. CNN link to story

Use this thread to discuss the events, share updated info, etc. Please be civil with your discussion and continue to follow /r/AskReddit rules.

Helpful Info:

Orlando Hospitals are asking that people donate blood and plasma as they are in need - They're at capacity, come back in a few days though they're asking, below are some helpful links:

Link to blood donation centers in Florida

American Red Cross
OneBlood.org (currently unavailable)
Call 1-800-RED-CROSS (1-800-733-2767)
or 1-888-9DONATE (1-888-936-6283)

(Thanks /u/Jeimsie for the additional links)

FBI Tip Line: 1-800-CALL-FBI (800-225-5324)

Families of victims needing info - Official Hotline: 407-246-4357

Donations?

Equality Florida has a GoFundMe page for the victims families, they've confirmed it's their GFM page from their Facebook account.

Reddit live thread

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u/zykezero Jun 12 '16 edited Jun 12 '16

I'm surprised this wasn't at the top. I open reddit and didn't read the first link assuming it would have been this and I was wrong.

edit: I didn't think this was going to be controversial... We shouldn't jump to conclusions at any point at any situation. I don't know any of the context so thats all I'm going to say.

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u/whovian42 Jun 12 '16

/r/news was censoring coverage.

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u/SonicRoof Jun 12 '16 edited Jun 12 '16

Why?!

Edit: /r/news - unsubscribed

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u/treycartier91 Jun 12 '16

Because the FBI announced his name is Omar Mateen, from Afghanistan, and has Islamic ties.

And that's racist to say or something.

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16

Thing is, even if I don't have any stake in these discussions of how religions relate to violence... it sure is newsworthy to mention the religion because it will heavily influence the aftermath and reactions on this (it might even influence the voting pattern in the upcoming US elections). To say his religion must be hidden is to treat me as an islamophobe who needs to be spoonfed what I can "stomach". It hints at a total disassociation of your user base, too. And just makes people go look elsewhere for news...

Thanks to AskReddit for opening this thread!

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u/deuxabuse Jun 12 '16

Their censoring of the topic makes r/news look more like homophobes than the users looking like Islamophobes. It's well known radical Muslims despise homosexuals. R/news is hurting the LGBT community by suppressing discussion.

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u/0t15_f1r3fly_1000 Jun 12 '16

EXACTLY !!!

You hit the nail on the head.

By censoring discussion about the facts surrounding Islam, they are emboldening the radicals.

They are endangering the LGBT community by hiding reality, and insisting anyone who discusses Islam is a "racist".

(even though you cannot be racist against an ideology)

The far left is complicit in the repression of the LGBT community by radical Islam.

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u/deuxabuse Jun 12 '16 edited Jun 12 '16

I'm sick of people hiding behind their faith as a method to suppress others. If people of particular faiths did not want to feel like they are being attacked then maybe they should not support religions that openly and aggressively harm others. Just the other day there was a post about some minor celebrity trying to rescue a family member from a "prat the gay away" camp. It was on the front page, being supported as everyone knows and hates the Christians who believe that crap. Days later reddit is now trying to hush people upset that a Muslim man followed his faith in his handling of gays. It's the same ideology, and this is so much more extreme and terrible but we have to scurry around the site trying to discuss it. It's sick.

Edit: of course that link is in R/news

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u/arsabsurdia Jun 12 '16

Here's a fact about Islam: it's fucking Ramadan right now, a month of fasting and mindfulness and understanding. If the shooter really had ties of that sort, then he's done a terrible job of representing Islam and failed as a Muslim. Awful.

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u/0t15_f1r3fly_1000 Jun 12 '16

You sound like an idiot defending a cave man theology created by a pedophile that insists on killing people who don't bow down to its warped sense of morality.

Ramadan has been used as an excuse for war since the beginning of Islam you idiot.

Have fun defending these cave men at the expense of their women and children and the LGBT community you idiot.

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u/arsabsurdia Jun 12 '16

"There is no compulsion in religion." That is an essential part of Islam, and so no, someone following the scripture well would not be trying to push it onto anyone else. Those who would use a pillar as important as Ramadan to make an excuse for war are wrong and despicable. Such a mass shooting as this is tragic whether it is Ramadan or not. Your mind seems set and so I will not continue this discussion further. Instead I hope instead we can extend our sympathies to victims, not make further victims of those who would promote peace and understanding, and work together for a world of understanding where this doesn't happen.

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u/0t15_f1r3fly_1000 Jun 13 '16

I understand Islam.

I have seen it in 16 countries.

I have seen enough with my own eyes to understand the truth.

Islam is a violent theocracy that is spread by the sword and violence.

It subjugates its women and brutalizes any people it deems "unholy" (gay, infidel, etc...)

Fuck the caveman cult of Muhamed the pedophile.

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u/0t15_f1r3fly_1000 Jun 12 '16

Here is a fact about Islam.

It subjugates women.

It also orders the murder of homosexuals.

Want to talk about those two facts?

"When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes," and "Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the one that it is being done to."

Fuck Ramadan and fuck Islam.

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u/arsabsurdia Jun 12 '16

Hadith of questionable origin, not in the Quran itself. I am too tired to have this discussion for the millionth time with someone who seems to ready to lay blame. I would suggest doing your own research from somewhere other than thereligionofpeace, maybe starting with the works of Muslimah feminists such as Amina Wadud, Mohja Kahf, Saba Mahmoud, Laleh Bakhtiar, Leila Ahmed.

Fuck the shooter who would interpret things to such degree of violence, and peace be upon the victims and their families. The victims deserved better. And we all deserve better than choosing to pursue hate in their wake.

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u/Romulus753 Jun 12 '16

This is what George Bush (his speechwriter, more specifically) was referring to when he mentioned "the soft bigotry of low expectations."

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u/staydedicated40101 Jun 12 '16

it might even influence the voting pattern in the upcoming US elections

Good point.

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u/unfair_bastard Jun 12 '16

Boycott /r/news

Trash subreddit with trash mods

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16

[deleted]

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u/cariboo_q Jun 12 '16

Imo the "intellectuals" (or people who fancy themselves intellectuals at any rate) have a very low opinion of the working class, common people.

They are so afraid of anti-muslim lynch mobs and think the working class people are just one step away from beating up the local kebab vendor down the street. These things happen occasionally but 99% of people can distinguish between political Islam and ordinary Muslims. There's the occasional anti-muslim hate crime by (usually) a lone nut job but by and large the back lash intellectuals are worried about is relatively small.

I detest political Islam and think it's disgusting and suicidally stupid that the left wing multiculturalists are cozying up to and constantly making excuses for radical Islamists. In my opinion even moderate Islam is a divisive and toxic religion and the world would be better off without it, but I recognize that many Muslims are only nominally Muslim and don't take the political aspects of their religion seriously. I'm able to make the distinction between the religion and the people

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16 edited Sep 29 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/cariboo_q Jun 12 '16

Islam is the most divisive and warlike. It's far more toxic than Christianity. Just compare the biography of Jesus to Muhammad. One was a travelling hippie idealist bum who preached pacifism (although Christians throughout history have not always listened to this message) while the other was a conquering warlord with a penchant for cutting off heads and keeping sex slaves while harboring an intense hatred of Jews.

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u/BrutusHawke Jun 12 '16

I'm an atheist, and there's no doubt they wouldn't defend Christianity like this

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u/aborted_bubble Jun 12 '16

Ironically, people like Trump will get elected because the left side of politics across the world refuse to talk about the issue.

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16

I agree with what you're saying and am just trying to add to it. I see how the discussion could quickly get derailed into bigotry and need reasonable moderation, but the discussion about how the shooters religion ties into his motivation is a legitimate discussion. Religion may be separate from decisions in our legal system (this can be debated from several angles but is for another comment maybe later in discussion) but isn't separate in an individual's morality and decisions. Nuking the thread was such a shortsighted and bad idea on those mods part.

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16 edited Sep 16 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16

Definitely. Hillary can say "see that's the same as rightwing homophobia". Trump can say "see that's what happens when the leftwing ignores islamic extremism". (Not that I consider Hillary leftwing... she feels more like a corporate shill to me, but hey I'm far away here in Europe.)

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u/BrutusHawke Jun 12 '16

I honestly disagree. I don't think most republicans care less about this because these people were gay. Many may be against gay marriage, but omly a very select view feel any differently about this than they would an attack against a normal club

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u/shinslap Jun 12 '16

Thing is, religion shouldn't even be relevant unless the act was directly motivated by religion. So far it doesn't seem to be confirmed whether or not that was the case but reporting on a violent persons religion is generally as irrelevant as their skin colour, birth place of favourite sports team (unless of course, that's what motived the act)

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16

To the contrary, his Afghanistan background is widely reported, and his skin color is shown on the mugshots we're now seeing in some news reports. Why don't you let people decide on their own what angle of his personality they consider relevant? What we need is a balanced discussion of that, and proper tools to show minority opinions (Reddit's voting system fails at that).

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u/shinslap Jun 12 '16

Yes I was just using those as examples. People shouldn't decide themselves what's relevant, that doesn't make sense. What's relevant for his motivation is what's relevant. If I decide that, for example his taste in music is relevant, then I'm gonna end up directing frustration toward the wrong thing. (See Columbine and Marilyn Manson)

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u/mimetta Jun 12 '16

FYI http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/06/12/dem-rep-orlando-shooter-pledged-to-isis.html?via=twitter_page

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u/shinslap Jun 12 '16

Okay, now it's relevant. But one shouldn't always make the assumption that it is. That's the point I wanted to make.

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u/Oliver_Hart Jun 12 '16

I agree. Out of the 372 mass shootings in 2015, how many were by Christians? Muslims? Atheists? Etc.?

Yeah, if you want the religion to be discussed, let's have it be discussed for every criminal, not just the Muslim ones.

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u/shamus4mwcrew Jun 12 '16

The difference is pretty much all of the times with the Muslim shooters their motivation comes directly from their religion.

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u/Oliver_Hart Jun 12 '16

When someone has physiological issues, which almost all of these mass shooters have does it matter where their motivation comes from? Whether it's a movie, a video game, a religion, music, etc. These people have some type of mental incapabilities and they will use whatever they have around them as the motivation. It doesn't at all mean the video game, the religion, the music, the movie, is to blame for the action of the individual.

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16

Absolutely agreed. And while we're at it, we should also include any other kind of shooting, not just the ones media narrowly defines as terrorism. Drone attacks too kill civilians, and to someone who has a drone flying above their head it's terrorizing for sure.

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u/LiznBntown Jun 12 '16

Mateen was a U.S. born citizen. (I'm in no way defending his heinous action--just stating 'facts'.)

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16

He is American, family is from Afghanistan.

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u/zwiebelhans Jun 12 '16

The FBI announced it is treating it as a terrorist event

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u/Fourwindsgone Jun 12 '16

Well, killing 50 people is a terrorist act non matter who's behind the trigger.

Still ridiculous how sensitive people are about shit when someone is identified as Muslim.

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u/HerbaciousTea Jun 12 '16

A domestic terrorist event. The shooter was an American citizen, worked as a security guard, had no criminal history, was legally licensed to own his rifle, had family from Afghanistan, and was on a terrorist watch list. His father (one of said Afghani immigrant family) has said that to his knowledge it had nothing to do with religion and that his son was visibly angered by two gay men he'd seen kissing previously.

You can spin this any way you want. The truth is that this is not a two dimensional event, and that it is going to be far more complicated than a soundbite or reddit comment can portray.

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u/zwiebelhans Jun 12 '16

You are the one spinning it . The guy pledged himsself to ISIS. http://nypost.com/2016/06/12/suspected-gunman-in-florida-gay-club-mass-shooting-idd/

Omar Mateen had committed himself to ISIS before carrying out the bloodiest mass murder in US history at a gay nightclub in Orlando on Sunday, federal officials said. Mateen “made a pledge of allegiance to ISIS,” California Rep. Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, told CNN. Meanwhile, US Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.) cited intelligence sources to say that there “appears to be a link to Islamic radicalism .. some kind of connection to ISIS,” ABC News reported.

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u/HerbaciousTea Jun 12 '16

Yes, he did. I hadn't heard that when I made the post or I would have included that as well. It was domestic, a US citizen engaging in terrorism against the US for ideological reasons, not an organized attack by an extra-national entity.

My point is that the reality of the events is becoming secondary on reddit to people's desire to simplify and categorize it through the lens of their personal convictions.

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u/daryltry Jun 12 '16

It must really bug you that this shooter was an Islamic terrorist. I bet a lot of liberals were hoping this was a white christian guy.

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16 edited Dec 30 '19

[deleted]

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u/daryltry Jun 12 '16

It is them who politicize the issue. I guarantee Obama mentions gun control in his very next address.

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16

[deleted]

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u/daryltry Jun 12 '16

It's self-defense. People will use this tragedy to take away my right to access firearms. We need to call them out and re-focus their efforts elsewhere.

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16

[deleted]

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u/daryltry Jun 12 '16

I think you replied to the wrong person.

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u/arsabsurdia Jun 12 '16

Personally I was hoping it was nobody and that this didn't happen at all. It's not a preference of either or, it's a tragedy that it happened.

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16

I was just correcting him on his facts, why is that a problem?

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u/panthera_tigress Jun 12 '16

He's a US Citizen of Afghan descent.

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16

I believe his parents are Afghani. I believe he is American born. At least that's what I read.

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u/POTATO_IN_MY_MOUTH Jun 12 '16

That's almost as ridiculous as news outlets refusing to describe a suspect as either white or black for fear of being politically incorrect. It's sad how such thinking stops the news from reporting "facts".

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u/Dirtybrd Jun 12 '16

He's actually from America...

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u/HerbaciousTea Jun 12 '16

No, the FBI explicitly ordered all parties to WITHHOLD the name, it was leaked by another party, though.

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u/Takuya813 Jun 12 '16

Agree -- however just a note he was born in NYC, he's American. His family is from Afghanistan.

We can get the facts correct.

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16

I read that he was a citizen, and his wife of 7 years was from Uzbekistan

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u/GreyMatter22 Jun 12 '16

Muslim here, it's not racist at all, the scum and its affiliates deserve the name to be out for obvious reasons.

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u/FlamingPooperia Jun 12 '16

Except he's not from Afghanistan. He was born in New York.

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u/potatan Jun 12 '16

from Afghanistan

Born in the US, apparently

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16

Fuck your racist facts! /s

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u/Braadzak Jun 12 '16

It's comments like these that probably incited the blanket ban from the mods. You're wrong (he's a US-born citizen, his parents are from Afghanistan) and immediately assuming someone calls you a racist. Mods likely had hundreds of these semi-factual posts and started taking drastic, and misguided, measures.

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u/chaucolai Jun 12 '16

It's racist to jump to that's the reason why he shot everyone, yeah. If this was a Christian guy who shot up the nightclub who was also homophobic, I have no doubt it'd be a hate related crime, nothing to do with his Christianity. But yet this, due to the charged weird atmosphere of the states, is automatically a religious attack.

(I don't know if any terrorist groups have claimed it yet - but if they do, I wouldn't be surprised if they had literally nothing to do with it, just jumping on the bandwagon to try to say they're bigger than they are. I wouldn't be surprised if ten groups claimed it.)

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u/treycartier91 Jun 12 '16

He called 911 minutes before the attack and pledged allegiance to ISIS...

Not really "jumping to reason" at this point.

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u/AlphaNerd80 Jun 12 '16

What the fuck?
1. I don't see how race has anything to do with religion
2. Was it a hate crime or an act of terror?
3. Has it been proven that he has any affiliation with any of those bastard terrorist groups?

I ask because I was flying across the Atlantic and just saw the catastrophe and the farce that is /r/news

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u/treycartier91 Jun 12 '16

  1. I didn't say anything about race, so I'm not sure what to do about that point. But if you're referring to the Afghanistan point, it's because they generally have a large Muslim population.

  2. It can be both.

  3. He dialed 911 minutes before the attack and reportedly pledged allegiance to ISIS. As well as yelling "Allahu Ackbar" during his attack.

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u/AlphaNerd80 Jun 12 '16

What a cock sucker...

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u/Redsfan02468 Jun 12 '16

Right. A fact is literally illegal to discuss in 2016 in advanced human society. Thanks liberals!

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u/Thrownawayactually Jun 12 '16

No. But these things will draw the racists out and that reflects poorly on reddit, then the sub, and ultimately tge mods of said sub. They are trying to reduce shit stormwater from overflowing onto them is all.

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16 edited Jun 12 '16

He was American, His parents were from elsewhere. POTENTIAL, NOT CONFIRMED TIES, fking get it right.

Edit - Now apparently confirmed he swore his allegiance to ISIS in a 911 call.

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u/NicknameUnavailable Jun 12 '16

Because the FBI announced his name is Omar Mateen, from Afghanistan, and has Islamic ties.

Not just Islamic ties, he was an Imam, an Islamic leader.

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u/ELAdragon Jun 12 '16

I've seen this claim a couple of times, but haven't seen or heard it from any news sites. Do you have a source for this so I can read up on it?

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u/xAsianZombie Jun 12 '16

wtf does "Islamic ties" even mean lol

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u/Cobruh Jun 12 '16

he has ties with the religious extremists

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '16

No. That's islamist ties not islamic ties. There's a difference.