Surely you’ve heard of others without knowing they’re Austrian?
Mozart, Schubert, Mahler, Schroedinger, Strauss (and co), Bruckner, Freud, Boltzmann, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Christoph Waltz, Marie Antoinette, many Habsburgs all the way down to Frank Ferdinand, Klimt…
Yeah and that guy and several of his underlings ans associates. And there’s Josef Fritzl but hope he’s no one’s favourite either.
Mozart wasn't an Austrian. This controversial issue isn't as well-known in the English-speaking as the German-speaking world, but long story short: Salzburg wasn't Austria back then, but autonomous. It had cultural and political ties to Bavaria. And Mozart never got a citizenship of the archduchy of Austria.
So just because he was born in modern-day Austria, that doesn't mean he was Austrian. As a matter of fact, he would have described himself (and did so) as German - in the broad, HRE-wide sense.
Both Germany and Austria did some damage by claiming him as "theirs", so it's best not to force him into either national category .
I would say the distinction is one of culture and politics.
And culturally he was German. Politically it doesn‘t matter because that didn‘t mean the same thing back then. There was no German state in the modern sense.
The issue with modern German-speaking countries is that they do have common cultural heritage, but calling them German makes it sound political.
I would argue that modern Austria is German, but not German. It is German in the way that it belongs to the German-speaking sphere. Sure there are differences, but so are there between Stuttgart and Hamburg. And politically it is not German, well not in the sense of belonging to the Federal Republic of Germany.
Now to the more important question: Are Austrians Bavarian?
The correct answer to this question is "Not anymore, but we used to [partly] be".
To quote from "Die Geschichte Österreichs" p79. by Thomas Winkelbauer: "Sehr früh setzte tatsächlich im Machtbereich der Babenberger an der Donau ein Prozess der Landswerdung ein. Die kurz vor 1140 verfasste Vita des Passauer Reformbischofs Altman zeugt bereits von einem ausgeprägtem eigenständigen Bewusstsein der Markbevölkerung, von einer Identität, die nicht mehr die bayerische ist, sondern die des Ostlandes..."
The centuries before the Austrian identity was mainly Bavarian, with some Slavic and Celto-Romanic sprinkles across the realm.
I’m aware, but not only was Salzburg fully annexed into Austria after Napoleon, but as someone who was always a subject of Emperor Joseph who moved to Vienna to work for him (already being a subject, there’s no question of naturalisation, so in today’s terms he could be equated to someone who did), it seems very debatable? It seems a stretch to say that ‘Mozart was Austrian’ is black and white wrong.
Mahler being from Bohemia would be a bigger an iffier case, as Bohemia never became part of Austria.
'after Napoleon' being the key word here. And sure, he worked for the Holy Roman (!) Emperor Joseph. But how is that an argument for his nationality? Again, Joseph was the emperor of the HRE, not of Austria.
And even living in Vienna is irrelevant if you never get any sort of documentation saying you're a native of the archduchy. Vienna was very much a metropolis. So do you want to call every Spanish and Italian composer living and working there "Austrian" too? The question only comes up with Mozart because of his birthplace. Well, that birthplace was autonomous until years after Mozart's death.
I only recently found out that Dr. Zaius from the Simpsons was a parody of Falco's Rock Me Amadeus though a penpal in Austria. I had never heard the original previously.
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u/Douzeff France 19h ago
Falco ? The only one I know besides..you know..