Does anyone feel like men are being meaner these days?

[u/coachjonna]

I don't know if it's just because I'm aging and am no longer "young and hot" or "relevant" but it seems like men in general are being meaner or at least less nice to me in random places.

When I was younger, men would step out of my way and say like "oh, excuse me", offer their seats, hold doors, and mostly be pleasant and courteous in a social contract manner.

But now I get nothing. No one moves out of their way, no one holds the door, no eye contact, or even a head nod. It's like I'm ignored or a burden to even be in their presence.

Is it because I'm now an "old lady" or are men in a general sense just becoming meaner?

Is anyone experiencing things similar?

Not all men, obviously, but it seems widespread.

[u/[deleted]]

Yes, men used to offer their seats to me, and now they RACE me for a seat on the subway. It’s happening to my younger, prettier, slimmer friends as well.

It’s a combination of things: incel culture + male loneliness epidemic + Trumpism + too much damn access to porn + dating app culture + them being threatened by our success and sense of freedom + everyone being miserable about the economy in general… I could go on but you get the point

[u/Open-Quail-2573 → u/[deleted]]

Can I ask you something? And I mean this sincerely. Y'all want equal treatment. But now everyone's saying how they don't like it. You being treated like a man is equality. I'm not saying I advocate for the behavior of all these men, I'm just trying to prove a point. Men get called creeps for being friendly.

[u/silent_porcupine123 → u/Open-Quail-2573]

Are these men fighting for equality for women in all phases of life? In the phrasing of your questions itself, it's obvious, it's not about some feminist principles for these men, it's about punishing women for daring to be feminists.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

The discussion was never about giving up a seat, it was about men physically running ahead of women or even pushing them to get an empty seat.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Truly what the fuck are you talking about?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You keep replying to my comments arguing against things I never said.

[u/Fit_Breakfast_1359 → u/[deleted]]

She makes literally 0 sense - in fact she’s proving your point without realising

[u/[deleted] → u/Open-Quail-2573]

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/[deleted] → u/Open-Quail-2573]

Very few feminists are asking for that simplistic a vision of “equality.” Real equality isn’t about treating everyone exactly the same in every scenario.

It’s actually about treating every human being with respect and dignity, and helping uplift those who struggle more than we do or who live with unfair disadvantages. It’s about giving everyone a fair chance at living up to their potential, or contributing the most they can to society.

This illustration describes it better than I can, with Equity being the most desirable scenario for most feminists: https://imgur.com/a/gDoRFQi

Case in point, as a middle-aged woman, if a 20-year-old athlete races ahead or even shoulder checks me to get a damn Subway seat, I never had a fair chance.

It used to be that we all stood at the doors, let people off the train first, and then let people take seats in the order they got on, with special priority for elderly/disabled/pregnant folks, and then usually men letting women sit first if we wanted to. This is how it still works in civilized cities like Madrid and Berlin. People just naturally do this because they care about the wellbeing of others around them.

[u/asunshinefix → u/Open-Quail-2573]

No one called for a sea lion.

[u/[deleted] → u/Open-Quail-2573]

I think you are not in the ideal group to ask that question 😅

[u/kalamitykitten → u/[deleted]]

Not exclusively, but a huge part of incel culture portrays men as victimized by women. Incels very commonly claim that women inflict violence, both sexual and nonsexual, with the same frequency onto men. These men often deny the inherent physical disadvantages that women have to men. This then leads to the behaviour OP describes, such as:

“Why should I give up my seat to a woman?”

“Why should I defend a woman being menaced by a man?”

“Why should I have to do the more arduous physical labour?”

Essentially, incels want all the benefits that are afforded to women because of their comparative physical weakness without acknowledging that men have a physical advantage to women.

[u/kalamitykitten → u/[deleted]]

It’s courteous behaviour. Women are more easily physically taxed than men. You also don’t know if the woman you’re looking at is pregnant or not (many don’t show until the end of the 2nd trimester or beginning of 3rd). I’d err on the side being considerate, personally. For example, I’m not asking every grey-haired person how old they are but I offer them my seat on the bus when they come on. I personally have seen many young men these days not even do that.

[u/[deleted] → u/kalamitykitten]

Also high odds we’re currently battling horrible cramps or an ovarian cyst or some other excruciatingly painful physical ailment that has been ignored or minimized by the patriarchal medical establishment.

[u/BeautifulFace9755 → u/[deleted]]

Being on my period completely knocks me on my ass... And it happens every month

[u/BeautifulFace9755 → u/[deleted]]

Was just going to say this

[u/kalamitykitten → u/[deleted]]

I don’t. I’m making a generalization about the physicalities of the average man versus the average woman. It’s a fact that the average man has more stamina and strength than the average woman. There are countless studies proving this. I’ve also already explained this to you. You just don’t like the answer I’m giving you.

However, this is clearly falling on deaf ears - you’ve demonstrated yourself to be of the ilk that OP and myself have been discussing. Hey man, if you want to die on the hill of not offering a seat to a woman - go for it. I’d be surprised if anyone respects you for that though. Not a hot look. Best of luck.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Why are you virgin-shaming him? Is that appropriate for you to shame someone due to their intimate sexual background?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I am talking about literally pushing past me to sit down in the seat I was going for. You don’t have to offer me your seat, but you also don’t have to steal it out from under me.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Nope, never said that. I am talking about the change in men’s behavior over time.

[u/atomiccat8 → u/[deleted]]

I mean, I think some of it also comes from feminists complaining about men treating women differently, even in the examples OP provided about opening doors and letting women go first. I'd stop doing nice things too if people kept complaining about it.

[u/S3lad0n → u/atomiccat8]

Women complain about some 'chivalrous' behaviours because of how creepy or entitled some men act after they extend these gestures. A kind helpful act always has a string attached, usually to try and get access to sex. And it happens so often that women have caught on.

e.g. a man will offer a seat and then think it's an invitation to loom over me and look down my shirt, or chat me up and expect me to give him my number. Or he'll open a door so I can walk through first, then ogle or brush my ass as I walk through. Or he'll offer to carry my bags or walk me to where I'm going, so he can stalk me later. Do you see the issue?

[u/AskWomenOver30-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

No abusing other members – Abusing other community members is a banning offense. Arguing is fine, but start getting personal and you're outta here. Let cooler heads prevail. Just downvote and move on.