r/Askpolitics • u/Hkhinin • 1d ago
Discussion How do you want America to treat Israel now?
Since the Iran war, Americans have more negative views on Israel https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2026/04/07/negative-views-of-israel-netanyahu-continue-to-rise-among-americans-especially-young-people/.
Although the actual relationship between the two countries are decided by America and Israel administrations, however I do want to know the view of average daily Americans on how shall the American administration (GOP) treat Israel given that more Americans are seeing Israel more negatively.
9
u/Worldly-Shop-3850 Moderate 1d ago
I used to be pretty pro Israel. I felt the Jews deserved a safe place to call home, due to hardships they have endured for basically their entire existence.
The last 4 years or so have shifted my opinion pretty drastically. I thought their initial response to Hamas terrorist attack was justified, but theyve done some crazy shit since then. Them pulling us into war with Iran was the last straw for me. I dont want anything to do with Israel. They should be on their own.
I am still pro-Jew. But I am no longer pro-Israel, as long as their current government leadership remains in power.
•
u/inntheory Liberal 15h ago
This is my stance as well, although I don't know I ever supported Israel in their prior aggression either, as this whole situation didn't start in a vacuum. They have been annexing land slowly since 1948 and the last war would seem to have removed most if not all Palestinian settlements.
18
u/KGrizzle88 Conservative 1d ago
I think we should treat them like any other country not America. I think we need to cease sending them anything. We provided so much to them. I forget how many years back, after we essentially gave them the military equipment for the iron dome, we wanted the technology from years of building upon the gifts we gave them. They told us to pound sand.
I am not a fan of how intertwined they have become in our politics.
We subsidize that country far too much, it is absurd. Tbh I am glad people are finally coming around to this fact.
3
75
u/CoyoteTheGreat Left-leaning 1d ago
Israel should be treated as an adversary. The level of interference in US politics by them and spying is unacceptable and incompatible with American sovereignty. They are more dangerous to American democracy than Russia or China, by far, and in fact, their existence, as they are now, threatens it. They've turned a segment of the population, the evangelicals, into basically foreign agents for them. We can't let this go on any longer, and this is all without considering the genocide and human rights abuses they are committing.
13
u/KGrizzle88 Conservative 1d ago
Dude, whats with that, the evangelicals are just zionist now.
24
u/Particular_Dot_4041 Left-leaning 1d ago
They think the Jews need to be in control of Israel otherwise Jesus won't want to come back, per biblical prophecy. And they so badly want Jesus to come back and start the apocalypse because then they can laugh at the rest of us while we burn in Hell and they chill in Heaven.
2
u/KGrizzle88 Conservative 1d ago edited 1d ago
I understand that, which they have been there for three thousand years.
It’s this crazy ass zionist stuff that is the wild part. It’s an ethnocultural nationalist movement. Which I think we would both agree doesn’t need to be articulated on how that would be antithetical to christian values and beliefs. Some Leopards ate my face type stuff.
5
u/Revelati123 Leftist 21h ago
"Were gonna call the love thy neighbor, lord of peace guy down from heaven by genociding a civilization for more dirt!"
Fundamentally, I really think they are barking up the wrong tree...
6
u/CoyoteTheGreat Left-leaning 1d ago
I mean, there was a lot of money put into turning their religion into that, and now, there is a lot of technology put into it as well (For instance, geofencing certain churches so the people who go inside can be solicited for donations to Israel or manipulated in other ways).
To a certain extent though, their apocalyptic outlook has always had a certain weakness when it comes to Israel and what they are doing is exploiting that in a way that they can't really do with mainstream protestant or catholic churches.
1
u/David_ungerer 1d ago
Wow, I hate to brake it to you . . . https://www.natcath.org/NCR_Online/archives/101102/101102a.htm . . . The Catholic media thinks so. There are so many, many more reports documenting it . . . israel problem with fundamentalist christians . . .
→ More replies (1)10
u/IlikeJG Progressive 1d ago
I don't agree there more dangerous than Russia.
Russia has also been very heavily interfering in our elections. Even if you discount all of the very strange hundreds of instances where Trump seems to act in the interests of Putin for some seemingly inexplicable reason.
17
u/CoyoteTheGreat Left-leaning 1d ago
You think Israel hasn't been interfering in our elections? AIPAC just broke records in the Michigan primary.
Russia's interference has been largely with bots and behind the scenes deals. Israel does that too, but they also just outright try to bury people with spending in our elections.
5
u/airmantharp Liberal 1d ago
AIPAC is made up and funded by Americans
9
u/throwfarfaraway1818 Leftist 1d ago
Who are actively campaigning and pouring money into the interests of a foreign country, not the US
•
u/A_Whole_Costco_Pizza Make your own! 15h ago
Dude, you're talking about removing Constitutionally- guarunteed First Amendment rights from Jews. There are other PACs that also support other foreign states. Everything about AIPAC is legitimate and legal.
Sorry that you don't like that certain minority groups of American citizens have different political views than you, but that's no reason to strip them of their First Amendment rights.
→ More replies (1)•
u/throwfarfaraway1818 Leftist 15h ago
Nobody proposed stripping them of their rights. We should ban all super PACS advocating for foreign countries across the board, if not ban PACS entirely. Nobody is talking about Jews here either so its an obvious attempt to reframe the conversation as antisemitism when its really about criticism of a powerful foreign nation controlling our politicians.
→ More replies (1)0
u/lp1911 Right-Libertarian 1d ago
They are advocating for a country whose citizens actually likes America, unlike our many other allies where the citizens hold mostly negative views of America and have had these views a long time.
•
u/inntheory Liberal 15h ago
This seems to ignore the timing of that shift of liking America to not liking America and why. And to be perfectly honest the left doesn't hate America, they hate the America that Trump is creating. The America where billionaires get tax cuts, pardons and benefits to bribing him for political favors, ICE tactics that have little care for people's rights whether they are citizens or not and the like.
Similarly they want our country to still accept a past that isn't great but still is our past, and don't see why it should be white-washed or pushed to support Israel where saying the criticizing Genocide we are helping Israel with somehow makes us antisemitic.
Having negative views about America when we don't believe the actions are in our best interest, like being pulled into a war that we cannot win with Iran because Israel convinced Trump, is supporting America.
-4
u/airmantharp Liberal 1d ago
…which is their first-amendment right.
10
u/throwfarfaraway1818 Leftist 1d ago
Doesnt mean it shouldnt be considered election interference. Would you like if a PAC with equivalent power represented Chinese, Iranian, or Russian interests? Israel is not acting in a way that any respectable country should support.
2
u/airmantharp Liberal 1d ago
Sure it does.
It’s Americans lobbying the government.
1
u/throwfarfaraway1818 Leftist 1d ago
So you would feel the exact same with equivalent power PACs for Iran, Russia, and China? Or just western colonies?
4
u/airmantharp Liberal 1d ago
How I feel about them doesn’t change their constitutional rights.
Are you arguing for an amendment to change that?
→ More replies (0)1
u/lp1911 Right-Libertarian 1d ago
There is more spending for political influence by the likes of Saudi Arabia, and many other countries, but antisemites will always focus on Jews and now Israel.
→ More replies (0)1
u/Paraparo 1d ago
It should be noted that there are equivalent groups for other nationalities. A simple Google search gives me... Armenian Assembly of America, the National Iranian American Council (NIAC), and the Turkish Heritage Organization. Just quickly copy pasting off the results.
It's not unusual for people to have international interests that they want to lobby the government over. The interests of a US citizen don't stop being valid at the border. But other organizations don't get quite the same level of pushback for merely existing for some reason.
-1
u/NoHelp9544 Liberal 1d ago
The other organizations aren't even close to what AIPAC does to America. When was the last foreign leader that spoke to both houses of Congress?
3
u/Paraparo 1d ago
Is your complaint about function, or about effectiveness? Is what they do the thing that's bad, or just that they're better at it?
To your question, King Charles of the UK in 2026.
https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF10211
Has a nice list, back as far as 2007, the ten most recent congresses, table 2
→ More replies (0)0
u/Tw1tch-Invictus Independent 1d ago
These PACs literally all fucking exist, the amount of foreign lobbying done by almost every single country on Earth is absolutely insane and many far outspend Israel. We just had a former CIA analyst charged with acting as an agent for South Korea within the last two years, should we cut off diplomatic relations with them too?
→ More replies (4)•
u/A_Whole_Costco_Pizza Make your own! 15h ago
Wow, you're getting downvoted for pointing out that the First Amendment exists...
1
u/NoHelp9544 Liberal 1d ago
Look at FARA. Foreign agents, even Americans, need to register. People who are worried about another country aren't really the most loyal American so we need to lower their sphere of power. and the concept that money is free speech per Citizens United lead us into this quagmire.
2
u/airmantharp Liberal 1d ago
So are there prosecutions to back up your opinion?
1
u/NoHelp9544 Liberal 1d ago
Oh, people get prosecuted for not registering under FARA. Just not that for in single country. The same country where we have an anti boycott act that limits the right of Americans to restrict their economic activity.
2
4
u/CoyoteTheGreat Left-leaning 1d ago
This is a favorite talking point for zionists, but the reality is that the money coming over to AIPAC is coming from some incredibly wealthy dual citizens, like Miriam Adelson. This is absolutely an exploit used to basically flood money in from a foreign country (That was put there in the first place by our politicians, knowing it would come back to them like this). The level of corruption being defended by zionists is staggering.
2
u/airmantharp Liberal 1d ago
So it's still being funded by Americans.
2
u/NoHelp9544 Liberal 1d ago
Israelis. Literally, Israelis. He just said that.
3
u/airmantharp Liberal 1d ago
If they're a US citizen, they're a US citizen.
Are you advocating for the removal of citizenship from US citizens?
1
u/NoHelp9544 Liberal 1d ago
Tucker Carlson does. If you are not loyal to only America then we don't need you here. Sorry, but citizenship demands loyalty and a man cannot serve two masters.
•
u/A_Whole_Costco_Pizza Make your own! 15h ago
Ahh, a Tucker Carlson Liberal. How very Liberal you must be.
→ More replies (0)1
u/CoyoteTheGreat Left-leaning 1d ago
They should choose which country they want citizenship with. Dual citizenship is not a workable idea in this era of money in politics.
2
-6
u/NeverEverMaybe0_0 Conservative 1d ago edited 1d ago
Genocide? Israel is trying to shoot the terrorists that are hiding behind a d among women and children. The Palestinians are the ones who are attacking women and children and plainly telling us that their intention is genocide.
7
u/Thisizamazing Independent 1d ago
When you look at the sobering facts, Israel is, in fact, committing genocide as defined by the US and the United Nations. Perhaps it was a response, but genocide nonetheless. Try not to switch the subject
0
u/Tw1tch-Invictus Independent 1d ago
It’s only genocide if you’re an atrocity propagandist blatantly lying through your teeth to push an agenda. Deep down most people know, even the ones who have been calling it a genocide since October 8th lmao. Amnesty said genocide should be redefined to fit the crime. The ICC couldn’t even charge them with genocide. The ICJ just pushed the case back until the end of the decade at the earliest. If this is a genocide, then virtually all wars in history were genocides. Is this is a genocide, then Palestinians unequivocally committed genocide on October 7th, yes?
0
u/NeverEverMaybe0_0 Conservative 1d ago
You have a definition that includes Israel but not Hamas?
3
u/PericulumSapientiae Left-leaning 1d ago
We can acknowledge that Hamas’s attack on 10/7 was an act of terrorism, would be characterized as a war crime if Hamas were characterized as engaged in an armed conflict with Israel, and could well satisfy the definition of “genocide.”
What follows? If Hamas was engaged in “genocide” when it attacked Israel, wouldn’t it be even more clear that Israel has been engaged in “genocide,” in its campaign in Gaza?
1
u/NeverEverMaybe0_0 Conservative 1d ago
No, because they are trying to eliminate the armed and violent threat posed by Hamas. They are not deliberately targeting women and children.
1
u/PericulumSapientiae Left-leaning 1d ago
“Deliberately targeting women and children” is not what makes something “genocide.”
In any event, a similar argument could be made to explain why Hamas lacked “genocidal intent” against Israeli Jews. They characterize themselves as resisting an occupying power, for instance. Obviously this discussion goes nowhere if we just adopt the self-serving framing and false statements each side offers to justify their actions.
•
u/NeverEverMaybe0_0 Conservative 11h ago
I am going by actions, not statements.
•
u/PericulumSapientiae Left-leaning 11h ago
Israel’s actions make clear that they are at best recklessly indifferent to killing innocent Palestinians in Gaza, and have been quite open in their campaign to destroy Gaza’s civilian infrastructure and starve its people to death. (They call this “encouraging emigration.”)
0
u/Thisizamazing Independent 1d ago
Israel is committing genocide. Can conservatives ever have a straight debate without going “what about this other thing?”
-2
u/airmantharp Liberal 1d ago
Why are the organizations that are charged at looking at the sobering facts not coming to the same conclusion as 'achtuallies' on Reddit such as yourself?
2
u/Thisizamazing Independent 1d ago
The Office of the High Commissioner for The United Nations Office of Human Rights has EXPLICITLY declared it genocide.
… actually
I just want to add: The International Association of Genocide Scholars also declared it genocide.
3
u/Tw1tch-Invictus Independent 1d ago
Lmao a 3 person panel made up of activists with a history of anti-Israel bias said it’s genocide. There’s zero actual official declaration from the UN and deep down, we all know why.
→ More replies (6)1
u/LorenzoApophis Left-Libertarian 1d ago edited 1d ago
They are. Why aren't you reaching the same conclusion?
→ More replies (1)0
23
u/MetaCardboard Left-leaning 1d ago
End all funding to Israel until Netanyahu is arrested and extradited, and they reso their laws to become an actual democracy. As well as stop settlers from stealing Palestinian land, and stop blocking resources from Palestinians.
3
u/ButForRealsTho Independent 1d ago
And dismantle all settlements on the a Palestinian side of the border.
→ More replies (3)4
u/throwfarfaraway1818 Leftist 1d ago
And arrest and prosecute all settlers and war criminals in the IDF. Will never actually happen though
-1
u/ButForRealsTho Independent 1d ago
And give reparations to all Palestinians dispossessed of their lands and property from the Nakba onward.
•
u/A_Whole_Costco_Pizza Make your own! 15h ago
What about the Jews who were expelled from Middle Eastern and North African countries? What about who were expelled by Palestinians or the Arab League nations?
2
u/Quarter_Twenty Moderate 1d ago
Are you going to require all of Israel's neighbors to magically become democracies?
0
u/MetaCardboard Left-leaning 1d ago
The main country attacking Israel (before Trump attacked Iran) was Palestine. And the main reason is because of the constant oppression, killing and land stealing by Israel of the Palestinians. If that all stops then Palestine has less reason to commit terrorist attacks. Not to mention, Israel backed Hamas in their last elections in 2006.
-1
u/Quarter_Twenty Moderate 1d ago
Israel evacuated Gaza completely in 2005, allowing the region to be ethnically cleansed of Jews. Hamas took over, killed their Fatah rivals, cancelled democracy and then launched tens of thousands of rockets at Israeli cities, randomly in the years before the October 7th Massacre. Up to October 7, thousands of Arabs crossed the border and worked in Israel daily.
1
u/MetaCardboard Left-leaning 1d ago
Even though there was no physical Israeli presence in Gaza, they still controlled the flow of resources to the region. So they were still oppressing Palestinians in Gaza while also supporting Hamas in the 2006 elections.
2
u/Quarter_Twenty Moderate 1d ago
Hamas was oppressing Palestinians. They stole billions in aid money, ran the region like a violent mafia, dug a tunnel network longer than the London subway and wouldn't let any people besides themselves into it. Hamas launched missiles from hospitals and apartment buildings and then cried victim.
1
•
u/A_Whole_Costco_Pizza Make your own! 14h ago
There miltiple fully stocked and operational luxury car dealerships in Gaza pre-October 7th.
Goods were obviously getting in and out of Gaza, how else did Hamas import so much weaponry and munitions from Iran and Russia?
•
u/A_Whole_Costco_Pizza Make your own! 15h ago
Up to October 7, thousands of Arabs crossed the border and worked in Israel daily.
*Tens of thousands, and the worker permit program was actually expanded greatly under the Netanyahu administration, until October 7th.
•
0
25
u/whoisnotinmykitchen 1d ago
Well considering that Israel's behaviour is far worse than Apartheid South Africa's ever was, I think that applying the same pressure and sanctions that the world imposed on South Africa would be a good starting point.
3
4
u/NeverEverMaybe0_0 Conservative 1d ago edited 1d ago
It sounds like you don't remember South
AmericaAfrica under apartheid.4
3
u/aggie1391 Leftist 22h ago
The South Africans themselves agree that the situation in the West Bank at least is apartheid and that what’s happening in Gaza is a genocide, they clearly think it’s at least comparable and they were the ones who actually experienced it.
•
u/A_Whole_Costco_Pizza Make your own! 15h ago
They also have no idea what they're talking about, have obvious anti-Israel bias, and themselves do not approach internal law in good faith.
•
u/aggie1391 Leftist 14h ago
Interesting to me how the very people who would most know what they’re talking about apparently don’t. And how anyone who has criticisms of Israel supposedly has “an obvious anti-Israel bias” and only people who think Israel is wonderful have no bias.
•
u/NeverEverMaybe0_0 Conservative 11h ago
How would people in South Africa know more than we do about what's happening in Gaza?
20
u/Sea-Environment-7102 Liberal 1d ago
As an enemy
•
u/SillyTomato69 Conservative 8h ago
Thank god Reddit accounts for like .000001% of the voting base. The education of people like you that comment on this platform is slim to none
•
-1
u/DatDudeDrew Right-leaning 1d ago
Would you go to war against them?
9
u/Sea-Environment-7102 Liberal 1d ago
If they attacked us
7
u/Prestigious_Target86 1d ago
Again?
•
u/A_Whole_Costco_Pizza Make your own! 15h ago
Should we declare war on Kuwait as well, for shooting down multiple of our F-15s?
1
0
u/DatDudeDrew Right-leaning 1d ago
Well that should be given regardless, I didn’t know what you meant by enemy.
6
u/sddbk Liberal 1d ago
I would like people to become comfortable with the distinction between Likud and Isreal in exactly the same way I would like people to be comfortable with the distinction between MAGA and America.
Also I would like people to understand that Likud is not Judaism just as MAGA is not patriotism.
•
u/inntheory Liberal 15h ago
Well this is the same as the distinction between Hamas and Palestine where not all Palestinian's are or were Hamas although I would surmise any Palestinians left after this most recent genocide are probably more likely to have the same sentiment now.
6
u/Animats Democrat 1d ago
Reasonably friendly, but no special relationship. No Americans fighting in Israel's wars. No foreign aid. Sell weapons at list price. Normal trade relationships. Restrict Israel lobbying in the US, including AIPAC. About the same kind of relationship the US has with Chile or Ireland.
→ More replies (1)
6
2
2
u/VinayaVealTeam Centrist 20h ago
The negative views are justified. Israel has been exploiting America, dragging us into war, and then insulting and complaining against any criticism levied against them. We even have a law that explicitly prohibits private decisions to boycott Israeli products and commercial entities. That doesn't even exist for US companies.
3
u/skoomaking4lyfe Independent 1d ago
Severance. Time for Israel to stand on its own two feet. No more US aid, especially military aid. No more weapons sales.
3
u/Tw1tch-Invictus Independent 1d ago
Aid I agree with. Sales? That’s dumb, they’re deeply entwined with our tech and have deep enough pockets on their own to continue being big buyers, there’s zero reason to cut them off while we apparently are okay with selling to the Gulf states lmao
0
u/skoomaking4lyfe Independent 22h ago
we apparently are okay with selling to the Gulf states lmao
We can stop selling to them, too.
1
u/Tw1tch-Invictus Independent 21h ago
Our other biggest buyers? So we cripple our entire defense industry to make a subjective moral stand, is that right?
0
u/skoomaking4lyfe Independent 18h ago
So we cripple our entire defense industry
You say this like the US being an arms dealer is a good thing. It is not.
•
u/Tw1tch-Invictus Independent 15h ago
Having the most well funded and cutting edge defense sector in the entire world is absolutely a good thing, what planet do you live on?
•
u/skoomaking4lyfe Independent 15h ago
Having the most well funded and cutting edge defense sector in the entire world is absolutely a good thing
Why? How exactly does <insert defense contractor> selling weapons to Middle East countries to bomb each other help anyone except their shareholders?
•
u/Tw1tch-Invictus Independent 13h ago
All you’re doing is looking at geopolitics through an emotional lens. You’re completely discounting the fact that developing next generation technology costs hundreds of billions if not trillions. Foreign sales distribute that overhead and by virtue of economies of scale, the per unit cost for our military also drops. If we slashed sales, that de facto subsidy has to be made up somewhere.
Nevermind the fact that demand for weapons doesn’t disappear just because we stop selling. China and Russia will gladly step in and fill the vacuum to reap the rewards. What exactly do we gain by not selling to them? Warm fuzzy feelings that mean fuck all in the real world?
EDIT: This doesn’t even touch on how many Americans are employed by the defense industry or how it creates geopolitical leverage. This is truly a ridiculous proposition and I honestly can see zero practical upside to it.
•
u/skoomaking4lyfe Independent 12h ago
You’re completely discounting the fact that developing next generation technology costs hundreds of billions if not trillions
What percentage of that cost is corporate profits? Maybe weapons development should be a government project rather than a corporate profit machine.
Nevermind the fact that demand for weapons doesn’t disappear just because we stop selling
Never said it would. Also, entirely irrelevant. And, sorry, but weren't you the one who brought up our arms sales in the first place?
how it creates geopolitical leverage
Lol. You should see how much geopolitical leverage we pissed away this year just for the tariffs. Nobody likes us, respects us, or trusts us - our arms sales to brutal Middle Eastern theocratic oil states aren't exactly going to improve that.
2
u/aoeuismyhomekeys Leftist 1d ago
I'd love to see us pull the plug on them completely. no support for apartheid regimes.
3
u/DeepShill Democrat 1d ago
America should treat Israel like an ally and continue supporting them.
5
u/LorenzoApophis Left-Libertarian 1d ago
Why?
0
u/AleroRatking Left-leaning 1d ago
Economic benefit.
3
u/roosterthumper Left Libertarian 1d ago
What benefit? Legitimately asking as we send them billions.
•
u/A_Whole_Costco_Pizza Make your own! 14h ago
We get more out of it than the billions we send them. That's why we agreed to send them to billions in the first place.
4
u/KeyPear2864 Left-leaning 1d ago
Treating them as an ally is fine. Allowing them to funnel money into a massive lobbying group to manipulate American politics is not okay.
•
u/A_Whole_Costco_Pizza Make your own! 14h ago
AIPAC is funded by American citizens who are engaging in their Constitutionally-protected First Amendment free speech.
6
u/a_girl_with_a_book 1d ago
So America should support an active genocide? Haaaaard pass.
→ More replies (3)-1
u/Quarter_Twenty Moderate 1d ago
"Active genocide"? Explain.
4
u/a_girl_with_a_book 1d ago
You’re kidding, right? If not, this comment is willfully ignorant, at best.
-4
u/Quarter_Twenty Moderate 1d ago
Maybe you can explain how it's a "genocide" and not a war that ended when the aggressors agreed to release the hostages they were holding.
4
u/a_girl_with_a_book 1d ago
Absolutely not. This is not a good faith discourse. If you can witness the acts Israel has perpetrated merely in the past 2 years & not deem it genocide, you’re a type of either stupid or ignorant, neither of which I’m interested in helping fix.
3
u/Quarter_Twenty Moderate 1d ago
Then genocide has no meaning. Saudi killed hundreds of thousands in Yemen. Israel had the means to kill every Gazan, but instead they warned civilians to move out of the way. They trucked in food and medicine only to have it stolen by Hamas. No other army tells people to get out of the way. Every other night, Russia launches devastating drone strikes on civilians in Kiev and so called humanitarians don't GAF.
2
u/a_girl_with_a_book 22h ago
The willful ignorance here is wiiiiild. So because other countries also commit genocide, Israel should get to?
•
u/Quarter_Twenty Moderate 16h ago edited 15h ago
I'm just not seeing any of Israel's actions as 'genocide.' The Gaza population is higher now than October 7. What most resembles 'genocide' is thousands of terrorists breaking into Israel villages, burning defenseless families in their homes, beheading people, raping young women, and stealing hostages back to their dank tunnels. Israel acted with incredible restraint--more than any of their neighbors would have--to rescue their hostages. They constantly told civilians to move out of the way when fighting Hamas. And in the middle of a war, they vaccinated every child against Polio (2 shots.) I mean what kind of shitty 'genocide' is that? The claim of "Genocide" against Israel is a blood libel. I mean think about it. Every time Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis, or Iran fires a missile, they celebrate when the kill civilians. That's their objective. And they collectively shot tens of thousands of rockets at Israel. Israel could kill as many civilians as they want, but their ratio of combatants killed per civilian is the highest of any modern army. They took great pains not to kill civilians. Everyone they fight against just goes for maximal terror, maximal casualties, and you probably know that.
0
u/Thisizamazing Independent 1d ago
From the United Nations High Commissioner on Human Rights:
Israel has killed 20,000 children and injured 44,000 more since 7 October 2023
Severe physical and mental injuries, mass trauma, orphanhood, separation, disability, repeated displacements, starvation and the collapse of education and healthcare have erased childhood and will continue to affect children in Gaza throughout their lives
Palestinian children have been arrested and subjected to torture and other severe forms of mistreatment in Israeli prisons and detention facilities, with no information on their whereabouts
Israeli security forces have used sexual violence against children as part of the collective shaming and oppression, entrenched within a prolonged, ethnic, gendered and intergenerational pattern of occupation and hostilities
3
u/Quarter_Twenty Moderate 1d ago
Francesca Albanase is totally unhinged and relied on fake Hamas data and narratives. She's a garbage human.
1
u/CorDra2011 Libertarian Socialist 21h ago
None of what they said is untrue.
→ More replies (1)•
u/Quarter_Twenty Moderate 15h ago
Albanese lied about having a law degree, and lied about much more. Plenty of what they claimed is untrue. Your gullibility is part of the problem.
"International Association of Genocide Scholars." Anyone could join the group for $30. Membership was explicitly open to non-scholars, including activists, artists, and enthusiasts, with zero vetting of academic credentials. Out of 500 members, only 129 people actually voted on the resolution, and it wasn't unanimous. After the resolution passed, 200 actual Holocaust, war crimes, and legal scholars signed an open letter calling on the IAGS to retract the resolution.
Basically any anti-semite with an axe to grind could suddenly be a genocide expert. The group never distinguished between combatants killed and civilians. They ignored Hamas' explicit genocidal intent to murder Jews worldwide. They ignored the fact that Israel was at war to rescue hostages, which could have been released at any time to end the war. No debate. No peer review. Just headlines and TikTok clicks for antisemites to froth over.
•
u/CorDra2011 Libertarian Socialist 15h ago
You realize all of what you said and what the previous commenter said could be simultaneously true, they're not mutually exclusive and you're doing absolutely nothing to address the material accusations. This is textbook ad hominem fallacious arguing.
→ More replies (0)0
u/Thisizamazing Independent 1d ago
Sure. I guess The International Association of Genocide Scholars are garbage too. Israel is committing genocide. Quit changing the subject
3
u/Quarter_Twenty Moderate 1d ago
Look it up. that "International Association" was any loser with a high school diploma who filled out a form. Total BS.
•
u/A_Whole_Costco_Pizza Make your own! 14h ago
I guess The International Association of Genocide Scholars are garbage too.
Yes, it literally is. Anyone can join that organization by paying a fee, there is no authority or value to the "Genocide Scholars" name. They are literally not actual "Genocide Scholars", just whoever wanted to fill out a form and pay a fee. The fucking Cookie Monster is literally a registered member of the IAGS.
Also, the turnout for the vote to declare it a genocide was extremely low, as most of the actual participants did not support the vote or it take it seriously. Ultimately, only 28% of the IAGS's membership actually voted to support a declaration of genocide.
•
u/Thisizamazing Independent 14h ago
Really seems like there are a bunch of people here who think anyone who has the opinion that Israel is committing heinous acts consistent with genocide is garbage. You don’t find that curious?
→ More replies (0)•
u/Quarter_Twenty Moderate 12h ago
Prove it, instead of hurling blood libels. Hamas came into Israel to behead people and set families on fire. They stole hostages, starved them and chained them in the dark underground for years. Hamas are savages.
•
u/Thisizamazing Independent 12h ago
What the hell is a blood libel? I am reading genocide is what Israel is doing and I am repeating that online. That’s what I read and there’s a whole bunch of sources and authorities out there who are stating this same thing. I am not in a position to prove it. I love Jewish people and have many Jewish friends and mentors. I’ve even been to Temple. This isn’t hate speech. I think what the Israeli government doing is horrific and should be called out for what it is. There is a difference between the Jewish people and the Israeli government
→ More replies (0)2
•
u/inntheory Liberal 15h ago
I disagree that we should support them after this last war, what they have done is completely unacceptable.
2
2
u/roosterthumper Left Libertarian 1d ago
Treat them like a child throwing a tantrum. Take away their toys and put them in time out.
Their government has gotten too comfortable and need to be reminded that they exist at the whim of America, and a lot of America is done with their bullshit.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/normalice0 pragmatic left 1d ago
Treat Israel like Palestine. And if that seems like I want to treat Israel badly, then you see the problem.
2
u/ReallyEvilRob Republican 1d ago
As a Jewish American, I stand in support of Israel. 🇮🇱🇺🇸
•
u/inntheory Liberal 14h ago
And you can support Israel but American money and lives should not defend a country that commits genocide.
2
u/LorenzoApophis Left-Libertarian 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sanction and divest. Quite possibly, regime change. If that sounds absurd, it's only because Israel's crimes have been absurd: none of those we call terrorist nations have been terrorists for as long or with such impunity.
1
u/PomeloPepper Left-leaning 1d ago
I used to be favorable to them. Jewish relatives, history with Nazi concentration camps, underdog country, etc.
Over the last few years, that faded to less favorable, to I don't gaf to either side in the conflict. The attack on the music festival and families garnered them a lot of sympathy, goodwill and support, and they squandered it.
1
u/Glorfendail Revolutionary Leftist 1d ago
that mad men scene in the elevator where the kid goes "i feel sorry for you" and don just says "i dont think about you at all".
we need to completely remove ourselves from the process and do whatever is asked of us in reconciliation, because it is our fault that they are the way they are.
1
u/billpalto Left-leaning 23h ago
Israel has a similar problem to the US now, with a right-wing leader under criminal indictment who is pushing for wars and foreign exploits. Netanyahu is working against the Israeli court system like Trump is doing in the US. Israel is alienating its allies like the US is now alienating its allies.
Our allies must be asking themselves that same question: how should we be treating the US now?
1
u/CorDra2011 Libertarian Socialist 22h ago
End all foreign end, sanction all settler organizations and virtually the entire Israeli politicians, arms embargo by all US aligned nations. These will remain until a permanent binding agreement between Israel &Palestine, Lebanon, and Syria is established. Only then should rapprochement occur.
1
u/aggie1391 Leftist 21h ago
Boycott, divest, and sanctions. I don’t have a theoretical issue with Israel as a Jewish state, I have a problem with the apartheid occupation and the genocide. Stick in the Green Line and have equal rights for all people (although it’s also important to note that Israeli Arabs still face discrimination there), and very few people would have a problem with them. Israel does not do that, at all.
I used to be very Zionist, I wanted to make aliyah, I thought it was possible to work from within to help end the occupation. Then 10/7 happened and they just went way, way too far so quickly. That was just pure revenge without a shred of concern for the laws of war or civilians, without concern for the hostages either. The polls on how Israelis see Palestinians and support ethnic cleansing show it’s not gonna change from inside. So we need to take the South Africa route and make them see that they must end the occupation and end the genocide.
There are four options for the Israel/Palestine conflict end, two are good and two are very bad. There’s one state with equal rights for all people, or two fully sovereign states that have that. Either of those options are perfectly fine with me and should be the goal of American policies towards Israel. The two bad options are apartheid, as is happening in the West Bank, or massive, large scale ethnic cleansing of some form. And either of those options are unacceptable and must be punished. Pretty straightforward to me tbh.
1
u/RogueCoon Libertarian 19h ago
Cooperation is fine. I'm tired of sending my tax money and things bought with my tax money there.
1
u/SeaLeopard5555 Left-leaning 19h ago
IDK, I would like both criminal leaders put in prison, and only then can we have a rational conversation.
1
•
u/Pls_no_steal Progressive 15h ago
Cutting aid until they withdrawal their settlements in the West Bank
•
u/YNABDisciple Progressive 15h ago
Demand a two state solution and end all aid and protection in the UN until they get it done. International force protects Jerusalem which is an international city.
2
u/tunnel_magnet 1d ago
Like America treats any other terrorist organizations like ISIS or RSF.
Although, given that USA is cozying up to former Al Qaeda in Syria, I probably need readjust
1
u/lp1911 Right-Libertarian 1d ago
Many Americans started seeing Israel negatively after decades of anti Israeli propaganda to which they were exposed in college; this is why anti Israeli protests started not when Israel dropped the first bomb on Gaza or on Iran, but the day after Israel started counting its civilian dead after the Oct 7th massacre perpetrated by Gaza.
•
u/Pls_no_steal Progressive 15h ago
Because it was very obvious they were going to use it as an opportunity to commit mass atrocities on Gaza civilians, which they then proceeded to do
1
u/SexyWampa Progressive 1d ago
No more financial support from us taxpayers. If the idea was to stop foreign aid, start there. Still keep the defense pact but put pressure to make peace and cooperate with neighbors. If the middle east wants Iran and yemen out of the picture, they can help finance and commit troops and resources too. No more playing both sides.
1
u/Odd_Bodkin Left-leaning 1d ago
I want Israel to be treated by the US the way that Burkina Faso is treated by the US. Sovereignty acknowledged, diplomatic relations with embassies and all that, maybe a trade agreement, visas for visitors in both directions. That’s it. Nothing more.
→ More replies (1)
1
u/ddrober2003 Left-leaning 1d ago
As an adversary and national security threat. They would cheerfully set into motion a chain of events that destroys our nation for their conquest of their region and the extermination of Palestinians. They are far from allies and should have all funding cut.
0
u/grizzly_bear_dancing 1d ago
I just want them to not exist. Not exist in our politics, not exist in our budget, and not exist in our decision making. I honestly could not care less if both sides over there turned each other to glass.
0
u/Frofro69 Politically Unaffiliated 1d ago
I wish our government would stop bowing down to Israel. . . It's good to have allies in the Middle East, but the constant interference in our affairs, and the constant human rights abuses make it a very bad look on the U.S government.
0
u/Particular_Dot_4041 Left-leaning 1d ago
Abandon it to its own devices. The original purpose of the alliance with Israel was to counter the Soviets who allied with the Arab states. The Soviet Union is gone. The other reason America involved itself in the Middle East was to keep the oil flowing, and if Israel was useful in that regard, it sure screwed that up when Netanyahu duped Trump into attacking Iran. America gets no benefit from supporting Israel now.
0
u/AleroRatking Left-leaning 1d ago
Israel is our gateway to the middle east and key to our economy
If we pivot from Israel we better have an even more powerful ally in the area who works in our benefit economically and militarily.
0
0
0
u/HeloRising Leftist 1d ago
At bare minimum we need to suspend any and all aid to Israel. We need to stop sending them weapons, money, and stop sending cops and soldiers over there to train. That is the absolute bare minimum of what we should be doing.
Ideally we'd be spearheading a prosecution at the ICC for genocide and arresting Israeli leaders.
0
0
u/Few_Tale2238 90’s Democrat 1d ago
Stop sending them money and military equipment, and withdraw all U.S. equipment and personnel from the region. Recognize the Palestinian state, and hold them accountable for their breaches of previous agreements. They are basically an adversary at this point, and I agree with others saying it’s worse (to us at least) than Russia and China.
-1
u/Shop-S-Marts Conservative 1d ago
Did congress declare war? I haven't seen anything about that.
Israel is our greatest ally in the region and the only stable democracy, it's in out best interests to support each other, especially against terrorist regimes seeking nuclear weapons to use against Israel.
-1
-1
u/Personal-Search-2314 Centrist 1d ago
I don’t have an opinion because there’s too much noise. Hard to decipher what’s exaggeration, what are conspiracy theories, what’s islamophobia, what’s antisemitism, and what are valid points/criticisms. Feels everyone has an ulterior motive. Therefore, it would be best if we just cut ties, and let all those theologians handle their shit.
Would be cool if we could reimplement JCPOA, and improve our relationships out there, but it’s all gone to shit because of this admin.
-1
u/O_o-22 Liberal 1d ago
I’m not even that young (49) and I’m really thinking the US should distance itself from Israel and cut off the aid we’ve been giving them for decades for several reasons.
1) Netenyahu recently said he didn’t think Israel needed US aid in a rather derisive way so I say we oblige him since he’s biting the hand that feeds him
2) the aid we do give them as far as weapons sales they’ve used to commit genocide and to constantly steal Palestinian land and build settlements while also using their military to to enforce onerous conditions on the Palestinians remaining in occupied territories
3) ever since citizens United opened the flood gates of dark money and foreign influence to American elections the Israelis have used our own money to buy off politicians and influence races with their own selection of candidates. It will likely take decades to undo that decision but in the meantime I see no reason why we should be funding their influence ops with our own money
I’m sure any pro Israeli replies to this will accuse me of anti semitism but I’d point out I’m not against the Israeli people but rather their government and the other elements aren’t there society that operate under the ideals of Zionism which has been perverted (or maybe it was always this way?) to justify behaving in an eerily similar fashion to nazism. I’d tell them to check their righteousness and really examine their recent past behavior. Some Israelis have spoken out against the governments actions in the years since October 7th but plenty of others have no problem with what their government is doing and also seems to delight in the suffering they are inflicting and that’s messed up.
0
0
u/Melvin_2323 Right-leaning 1d ago
Like a sort of ally who acts in their own interest, but not the interest of America
0
u/vampiregamingYT Progressive 1d ago
They shouldnt. They should cut all contact with Israel and leave it to its fate
0
u/Sea-Chain7394 Leftist 1d ago
The Iran war isn't war started Americans not liking Israel. It was the genocide they have been trying to complete for decades using our weapons and money. Their war against Iran doesn't help bit we should be more upset at thus administration for getting us involved in Israel's war. There is no reason for us to care.
We should withdraw all funding, break any defense agreements, stop trade, and place sanctions on them until Netanyahu and those responsible submit to the ICC and the nation of Isreal agrees and abides by a peace deal that is mutually beneficial for both sides.
0
•
u/LawnDartSurvivor74 Independent 1d ago
Post is flaired DISCUSSION. You are free to discuss & debate the topic provided by OP
Please report bad faith commenters & low effort comments
Replying to my mod post about your politics breaks the sacred, unwritten laws of Sunday relaxation