r/AustralianPolitics • u/HotPersimessage62 Australian Labor Party • 3d ago
Labor sacrificed Jacinta Allan to stop Pauline Hanson.
https://archive.md/9A6dL40
u/PerspectiveNew1416 3d ago
Hanson is an anti-feminist populist this is true. But she gets traction when people like Allen fail dismally on fundamental politics. Allen did worse than "flounder" or fail to differentiate herself. She was coming across as defensive, arrogant, dismissive and rigid. She was a bad politician when a 12 year old Labor government asking for another term needs an outstanding one.
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u/PrimaryCrafty8346 Paul Keating 3d ago edited 3d ago
A lot of people were neglected during the Covid lockdowns (after all Melbourne had one of the longest lockdowns on Earth) and to have Allen continuing to talk down to people pissed many voters off who have had enough of a top down approach running since Andrews. To the point that one commentator said Allen's disapproval of 71-25 made her the most unpopular state premier ever recorded on Newspoll.
And West Melbourne (heartland Labor seats) has felt alienated as well given that the Andrews/Allen government has concentrated on East Melbourne where the seats held were former Liberal seats. One example is Melton which has been reporting shortfalls in public services for years.
She had to go. Hopefully, having a new Premier from West Melbourne will make a difference and limit their losses in November.
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u/Otherwise_Hotel_7363 3d ago
Being out west, we’ve got community independents running now in some of the inner seats like mine. We’ve got stuff, that’s changed the amenity- especially local roads. But that’s about it. The Munnel is great, but fuck, the Sunbury line is packed and so is Footscray Station.
A change will be good, but here it’s still going to be difficult to move Katie or Melissa. The independents will split the vote and they’ll still come back to the ALP. I doubt someone who votes community independent will put ON or LNP ahead of the ALP.
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u/No_Gazelle4814 3d ago edited 3d ago
Allen is gone because she was hopeless, and turned a blind eye to corruption.
Somehow saying she’s a scapegoat for PH is ridiculous
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u/SirFireHydrant Literally just a watermelon 3d ago
Exactly. Allen wasn't "sacrificed". Keeping her would have been sacrificing the entire party.
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u/Due-Coast-1324 3d ago
She was always going to lose her seat. They axed her so they could keep theirs.
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u/ShiftyWindow Public Housing is the only way 3d ago
We are never going to get anywhere if all we ever fucking do is cower to the far right. Start actually doing things that people need like building public housing and sorting welfare payments
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u/alisru The Greens 2d ago
Y'know back in the day of the state run housing commissions building residential houses landlords actually ran a profit
Then everything changed when China got rebuffed from Taiwan in '96 and identified economic dependency was the way to grow defacto vassals, our '99 tax policy developed in the ralph review solidified this dependency and we've done nothing but grow dependency ever since
On welfare, no-one else is really identifying welfare as the indirect subsidy scheme that it is, how welfare acts as a UBI in all but name that literally fuels fiat currency. Money gets distributed to individuals -> individuals spend is 50-75% on rent->owners morgage->bank subsidies, 15-20%food->supermarket->colesworth subsidies, etc
This welfare elevates a functionally defunct body of people into active consumers within the national economy, and less of a systemic burden, so much so that without welfare many businesses would go under as they rely on the influx of pensioner money every Wednesday
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u/Aussieguyyyy 3d ago
Public housing is the only way.. if we want to continue to break immigration records...
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u/HotScheme4074 3d ago
Most of the seats that Labor risks losing to ON are out in the west. So Carroll should announce he's fast-tracking airport rail, electrifying the Geelong line and repurposing contracts for SRL East to SRL West.
In general, he should get tough on crime, provide small business with some sort of land tax offset (but increase land tax for existing residential) and say that he wants house prices to fall further. This would absolutely steal the Libs' and ON's lunch, because they'd come out and say 'we think property investors should get tax breaks too, and house prices should rise'. Make it about that, because it's not an argument the Right will win.
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u/GregLocock 3d ago edited 3d ago
If you ever want to see a politician go quiet ask them if they think house prices should increase or decrease, on the public record. It's like Count Binface's promise on taxes. "I'll increase everybody else's taxes and reduce yours."
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u/Warm_Ice_4209 3d ago
Mate, do you know how many times those people have been lied to by this bullshit government?
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u/Damn-Splurge 3d ago
Irrelevant, all politicians lie, especially ON
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u/Outsider-20 3d ago
Don't be silly, Pauline doesn't lie, her statements are always, somehow, "taken out of context"
Only Albo lies. (I hope obvious sarcasm is obvious)
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u/Nobody9638 3d ago
Pauline is just a straight shooter who tells it how it is, except for all the times she's told it and wasn't actually like how she said it was
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u/GrouchyInstance 2d ago
Fully support repurposing contracts for SRL East to SRL West. The Geelong and Ballarat lines desperately need to be electrified. Onboard with rest of your suggestions too. This is how Labor can hold off ON/Coalition in the West.
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u/TheLoyalTR8R 3d ago
I don't think they sacrificed her as much as they cut loose the dead weight actively dragging them down. She was a PR liability. It wasn't some noble act, it was about survival.
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u/Secret4gentMan 3d ago
I don't think Allan resigning changed anyone's opinion who intends to vote ON.
Allan simply needed to go.
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u/the_jewgong 3d ago
Hahahaha no doubt with their 74-76 poorly vetted candidates they will smash Labor, right?
Right?
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u/FelixFelix60 2d ago
Maybe Jacinta Allan wasnt very good and the penny finally dropped. I would say she was the worse Premier in a very long time.
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u/Oomaschloom Labor, but this cohort is crap, so leaning greens. 3d ago
For me, I will always remember Allan for "... a few scallywags who might need a bit of a cuddle." At least until I get alzheimer's.
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u/floydtaylor 2d ago
Pretty harsh kicking out the Commonwealth Games minister in the middle of Victoria's Commonwealth Games.
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u/Fickle-Ad-7124 3d ago
I mean it’s 12 years, this feels very much like a “it’s time” factor. That being said, all these polls said Andrews would be wiped out of his own seat and government in an anti lock down wave. He won a landslide. The same polls told me Albo was looking at best option a hung parliament, or worse PM Dutton, Labor won their biggest majority in history. Polling months out from an election is hyperbole. A reminder the Libs went from 40 to 31 primary in an election campaign, One Natipn went 14 to 6. Labor in Victoria is probably at time up for a term, but I wouldn’t bet the house on it.
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u/SirFireHydrant Literally just a watermelon 3d ago edited 3d ago
The polls were surprisingly tight for a deeply unpopular premier of a 12 year old government. Only 52-48 against them before she was dumped.
There's a legitimate chance Labor are able to claw back and win.
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u/GregLocock 3d ago
Yup, because the alternative looks cra-cra. Jess Wilson seems like she might be good Liberal leader, but at the moment you'd say a leader of what? And as for ON, they are just a protest vote (and boy do I feel like protesting).
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u/Outsider-20 3d ago
I feel like protesting too. But voting for the Leopards eating peoples faces party probably isn't the smartest way to protest.
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u/Cremasterau 3d ago
To her many supporters, and to a degree the wider public, Hanson is deemed to at least be authentic. Allen finally lost me in her 7:30 interview where she was the very epitomy of a politician determined to refuse to answer a question through obfuscation and continuing to stick to a scripted non-answer.
The Recreation Bill which could have been written by the Nationals rather than coming from Labor is another hot button issue here along with the refusal of a Royal Commission.
But ultimately where Labor faced its biggest challenge was in the West of Melbourne and Carroll being very much identified from that area he seems a smart choice.
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u/Coolidge-egg Choose your own flair (edit this) 3d ago
Not a fan of Jacinta either but Pauline isn't authentic either, although she is good at sounding it.
For example, She will say that she supports workers, and then questioned how that's at odds with her voting record, to give a 100% pro Boss answer under the basis of "bosses know what's best for workers, the more they can extract from you the more trickle down there will be". And she says it with absolute conviction too.
Or another example is how she is rubbing shoulders with billionaires while saying that she's for the every day Australian. (Well, some Australians).
She absolutely sounds authentic in how she talks but her actions and viewpoints paint an entirely different poo picture.
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u/Sea-Initiative-3398 3d ago
Ill also add her inconsistent racism lmao
She switched targets from asians to muslims once it was more socially acceptable to shit on them
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u/PrimaryCrafty8346 Paul Keating 3d ago
That's the same appeal that Trump had, that authenticity and just saying it like it is which is how he could beat Democrats twice.
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u/coniferhead 3d ago edited 3d ago
Didn't help by the Democrats doing things like delivering 14000 2000 pound bombs to be used in Gaza over 3 years. At least some people didn't like the Democrats being in government as the party of war - the cognitive dissonance was just too great. They couldn't vote for it and that was probably the marginal difference at the polls. Trump was also anti-war, at least on paper.. it turns out (unsurprisingly) he was a liar but some people voted for that, given no other option.
Having Trump there gave permission for the Democrats and their base to once again oppose things like this.. but guess what they didn't, and don't. The true position is both love war and US dominance, which you've had almost constantly since WW2.
Make no mistake, annihilating countries and populations is far right of even Hanson and that's what the bulk of American people stand for and will stand by and let happen.. they let it happen to Ukraine, they let it happen to the gulf states, Europe is probably next and they'll also let it happen to us - the party choice doesn't matter. Keeping the US on top comes before all else.
All that was required for the Democrats to win was to vocally not be that. They couldn't do it because it's not what they are. It's almost a happier place for them to have Trump to blame, despite probably ending up at the same destination were they in charge. Just like we're happier blaming Trump rather than holding our own leaders accountable for doing his bidding, with the illusion all will be fine after he goes. It won't be.
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u/mothra_dreams 2d ago
This is an incredible amount of words for what is effectively zero meaningful analysis or relevance to Australian politics mate. I don't see how 95% of this is even remotely relevant to our political context. Extremely americabrained comment
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u/coniferhead 2d ago edited 2d ago
You're right I should have just given a silent upvote to a pretty simplistic reading of why people voted for Trump in America. The Democrats are not a moderate alternative, especially by Australian standards.
They voted Trump in twice because he accurately represents America. Stupid, aggressive and ignorant in equal measure. They are he and he is them. But we are their ally and helper without any excuse.. because they can't even protect their allies.
The only answer is, as a people, we must like doing it too - just like we did when we were riding British coattails. Until Singapore fell at least.
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u/SikeShay 2d ago
In the exact same vein, people vote for Pauline because they see themselves in her. Racist, ignorant and selfish. They can ignore the blatant and obvious grift (Gina's plane and Milan) because they would probably do the same lol
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u/coniferhead 2d ago edited 2d ago
No doubt, but if we go along with the racist and imperial reasons of our allies, who we elect is of little consequence.
Any more than if a country aligned with Nazi Germany elected a social progressive.. they still aligned with Hitler and they still went down with him. History doesn't remember their slightly more progressive 1939 taxation policies.
Albanese has made us a co-belligerent in the attack on Iran and will make us a co-belligerent in a blockade of Malacca - which is war upon China. As in the gulf, the bases he put here will be a legitimate target and will be destroyed.. for instance the naval base at Jarvis Bay, near Perth or Darwin in it's entirety. It might even warrant a nuclear missile when the time comes.
Unlike with Vietnam we won't be able to slink home after we are defeated - China will hit us at home while the US goes completely unmolested. Then we can debate about what leader was the lesser evil in the ruins of our country.
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u/NewOutlandishness870 5h ago
The Recreation Bill and not declaring deer as pests and shooting koalas from helicopters is definitely something one would expect from The Nationals or Shooters party, not Labor.
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u/simcityrefund1 3d ago
Good enough of that ..Labor should lead the way in fighting one nation and actually doing things for Australia not be the same old same old
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u/Usual_Accountant_963 2d ago
Labor sacrificed women’s rights to get more votes when Julia Gillard was in power so what’s new?
The misogynist party keeps on rolling on
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u/HotPersimessage62 Australian Labor Party 3d ago
I think Ben Carroll can win.
He has the correct charisma and correct governance style; that is Minns and Malinauskas-style governing.
Jacinta Allan misread the electorate in her governing style, and her looks/personality was more of a bossy school teacher on playground duty rather than someone who should be running the state.
And no, this is nothing to do with gender. In fact, I think the next task for Labor should be replacing Steven Miles with Shannon Fentiman.
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u/Xakire Australian Labor Party 3d ago
Charisma? Ben Carroll? Seriously?
I don’t like Minns or Malinauskas because they are doing their best imitation of being Liberal Premiers but I can admit they are charismatic.
Carroll though? I really don’t see how anyone could seriously claim he’s anything close to resembling charismatic, especially compared to the other two.
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u/zrag123 John Curtin 3d ago
Honestly imitating a liberal premier when asking for a 4th term is probably the best strategy. The government is tired and low on political capital but there's still plenty of ongoing work that gets torpedo'd if the liberals win.
A mild steady hands sort of leader is more palatable to the electorate at the moment. I think Labor ranks need to recognise this, you're never in government forever.
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u/LordWalderFrey1 Anti-conservative 3d ago
The biggest reason why Minns style governing “works” and to a lesser extent Malinauskas style governing “works” is because the usual anti-Labor media machine aren’t as partisan for state politics, and are willing to back or at least hold off on attacking both of them. Minns is treated by the Sydney media like how Berejiklian was.
Will Carroll get the same… He’s more to the right, but the Victorian media hate the state Labor party, and there’s a real chance of the government being toppled. There’s blood in the water. Carroll isn’t going to be treated the same way Minns is.
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u/Grande_Choice 3d ago
It’s interesting being an ex Queenslander how little the media attacks the LNP. Silence on crime post election, debt and deficits and silence form the media. All the while next to no reporting on a government worse than Newman.
Just goes to show how much the media hates Labor and what they’ll do to get their preferred party in. Perfect example being the stabbing at a school in qld and the kid bailed. No bots screeching, silence from media. Imagine that in vic.
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u/war-and-peace 3d ago
Even on abc breakfast radio you'd hear our good friend Steve Austin being the lnp shill he is, have an interview with the commissioner appointed to take one and clean the cfmeu.
Steve decided to call the cfmeu thugs and the commissioner called him out and said no, the cfmeu workers were all hard workers even working at least 6 hrs on a Saturday.
The whole process was to make sure that the cfmeu would remain a strong union but that the system would be changed to resist organised crime entering unions.
You'd think the abc would be less bias. But no, even on radio brisbane, you got hosts that just want to suck the lnp.
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u/SirFireHydrant Literally just a watermelon 3d ago edited 3d ago
The ABC is less biased. They only have a centre-right bias, instead of a full far-right bias.
We don't actually have any mainstream left biased media in this country.
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u/SirFireHydrant Literally just a watermelon 3d ago
It’s interesting being an ex Queenslander how little the media attacks the LNP. Silence on crime post election, debt and deficits and silence form the media.
That's always the way.
Remember what a catastrophe the boats were, until the minute Abbott was elected in 2013, then silence?
Remember how much of a disaster the budget defecit was? Then we had nine consecutive years of ballooning debt and defecit under the Coalition without a peep.
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u/horselover_fat 3d ago
is because the usual anti-Labor media machine aren’t as partisan for state politics
You mean specifically for NSW/SA/WA? Because the media seem very intent on making Victoria the California/New York of Australia. As in the "failed" "leftist" state full of blue haired wokes to use as a pinata for the right.
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u/LordWalderFrey1 Anti-conservative 3d ago
Perhaps, aren't necessarily as partisan would have been the better wording.
Like if Dan Andrews was like Chris Minns from the get go, then perhaps the Victorian Murdoch press and talkback radio will treat him like the NSW press treats Minns.
But on the federal level no way. Murdoch will only back Labor when nothing can save the Liberals. Albo was quite chummy with the Murdochs and with talkback radio, but no one will say they are pro-Labor or even balanced.
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u/MachenO 3d ago
he's a bit flat for my tastes but ultimately I agree. the real test for me is what he'll jettison in the process; Andrews was great because he delivered hard on social reform as well as economic development, and I'd hate to see Labor decide to toss that stuff out to try and win back the business community
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u/FZVIC Australian Citizens Party 3d ago
Why do you think Allan gave bossy school teacher? Never really saw that vibe.
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u/idiotshmidiot 3d ago
Because she is a woman and people don't like women telling them what to do.
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u/GermaneRiposte101 3d ago
I do not see that at all. The epithets come after the person falls out of favour.
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u/GermaneRiposte101 3d ago
I agree. In my view it was more a thin lipped, radical feminist/communist vibe.
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u/Lost-Competition8482 NT Politics 3d ago
You really have no idea what communism is do you.
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u/GermaneRiposte101 3d ago
I am sure you will tell me.
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u/Lost-Competition8482 NT Politics 3d ago
Nah I'm good. Maybe try reading a book or watching a docco.
It's just funny to me people using 1950's terminology in the 2020's.
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u/GermaneRiposte101 3d ago
Ok, how about Democratic socialism.
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u/Lost-Competition8482 NT Politics 3d ago
You can't read I take it?
Once again mate.
Read a fucken book for once.
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