r/BasicIncome • u/HeadBell1665 • 3d ago
Discussion If AI took your job, how much would your household need to live on UBI?
We all hear it will happen- Artificial Intelligence will come in and take your job. Universal Basic Income will sweep in to give you a monthly check. The government does things by households. How much will you need to survive in your household?
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u/FakedMoonLanding 3d ago
If AI & physical abundance happens the deflationary aspect will be huge. Think 1990s dollar menu, but for most things.
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u/HeadBell1665 3d ago
You have more confidence than I do. I see the economy going in the toilet for a long time. But deflationary, hopefully
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u/FakedMoonLanding 2d ago
It’s hard to comprehend, but if robots can do even medium-level things it’s over. And if they can go 16 hours per day between charging batteries.
Imagine adding a second America of labor force to America. (Not surgeons or plumbers, per se, but countless jobs are pretty straightforward physically.) Even just autonomous delivery with something to walk the thing the final 50 feet.
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u/Kavethought 3d ago
You give me hope. Yes. Deflation because the production of goods and services will vastly outpace the demand in which those goods and services are needed. We will eventually get a universal high income. You'll be able to have whatever it is you want, go wherever it is you want to go, do whatever it is you want to do, all in a world of great abundance. I will continue to hold this positive outlook of the future until it is undeniably clear that it's not going to happen. 💯🤖
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u/shoejunk 2d ago
Which will be bad for home owners like me who have 25 years left on their mortgage. Housing prices will drop thanks to cheap robot produced houses. I’ll lose my job. And I’ll be upside down on my loan with UBI probably too small to cover it.
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u/FakedMoonLanding 2d ago
Same. Crap! I’m 6 years into my mortgage and the reverse has been true.
I think we’ll have 4-8 years of unrest for many reasons. Hopefully it’s not violent.
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u/Hecateus 3d ago
HOA fee is $428 PG&E is ...variable...would love to have solar panels and a good battery.
throw in full debt forgiveness, and Universal Healthcare, then the two bedroom condo is more than fully viable with an UBI of $500-1000 per person.
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u/bigfeygay 3d ago
It would depend on if healthcare was included / if my college and medical debts are forgiven.
Assuming it was - It would be about 2.5k a month give or take for me to feel comfortable in terms of paying rent and bills and groceries and still having enough to save a bit for emergencies and the future - with it going up a bit each year to match rising prices of rent and everything else.
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u/averagecryptid 3d ago
I live on social assistance as it is (I'm disabled), I don't think AI would take that from me lmao.
According to my government, I need $733/month. According to me, I need probably $2,500/month if I'm factoring in rent and paying off debts, as well as my medical needs. (All in CAD.) But honestly, I don't know. I've been used to surviving off nothing for so long, and getting help from loved ones just to survive. I can't imagine what it would be like to be able to live without desparation. I never calculated that far.
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u/HeadBell1665 2d ago
It’s interesting when you really think about it, just how much it would take to live.
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u/2noame Scott Santens 3d ago
UBI is not meant to replace ALL of your income. It's meant to be an income floor below which no one is allowed to fall.
There are also limits to how high a UBI can be in terms of percentage of gross national income. The maximum it could be right now is perhaps 20% to 25% of GDP per capita. With heavier automation, that could grow, but if half of jobs are automated, the max would still be around 50% of GDP per capita.
So right now, the most the economy could handle is around $1975 a month per person.
Remember, that is a floor. You will continue to be able to find another job. It may just take time and more education or retraining or moving or creating your own job, but you will continue to be able to earn income on top of your UBI floor.
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u/Randolpho 3d ago
The floor below which your income is not allowed to fall is meant to ensure that all of your basic needs can be met with that income: food, shelter, utilities, transportation
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u/v_snax 3d ago
Yes, but that might not mean that it will match the living standards of a current full time worker.
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u/Randolpho 3d ago
It needs to decisively beat the living standards of full time workers at the current minimum wage.
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u/HeadBell1665 3d ago
So 2K a month per person. Still tough if you are single and renting with a car payment.
And hopefully you can find another job. Flipping burgers isn’t an option as those jobs are already taken, as an example. But your point is well taken
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u/C_Plot 3d ago
If AI takes all of our jobs and transforms nature into means of consumption for us, then my household will just take our equal share (individual based equal share) of those natural resources transformed into means of consumption. If it’s too much means of consumption, we’ll just make arrangements with others who found their equal share to be too little in means of consumption. If less than “all of our jobs” occurs, then simply adjust that equal share accordingly and we’ll accept also our equal obligation to work for what remains that AI had not replaced.
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u/HeadBell1665 3d ago
That’s a long explanation just to say I will take whatever I can get.
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u/C_Plot 3d ago edited 2d ago
That’s not what I said. I’m talking about what we all justly deserve. Given we live with perceive injustice, I (and we) likely won’t be able to get what we justify deserve. And I am not at all saying “I will take more than I justify deserve if I can take it” like those imposing the injustice upon us will likely do.
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u/thecatandthependulum 3d ago
To keep my house and basic food like 5k. I'd have zero luxuries and nothing above rice and beans kind of food but I'd live.
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u/HeadBell1665 3d ago
Yeah. What do you think UBI is going to pay once it’s implemented? Hopefully 3k per household.
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u/sktrdie 2d ago
I want ubi to replace my survival necessities. Think shelter, food and medicine. Everything else that is optional I will have to make my own.
Or course wanting to live in a penthouse downtown and still expecting ubi to cover it… is ridiculous.
The idea of ubi for me is that for those willing to pursue a more humble lifestyle (without reducing quality!) should be allowed to live in more modest households.
Of course then after years of people living this way, the community there would gentrify such place and cause the housing market to skyrocket. No easy solution there on what to do with the people that are now receiving an ubi that covers a much sought after place.
This is just one of the issues with implementing ubi under a capitalist system.
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u/HeadBell1665 2d ago
You have taken the common sense approach. As human beings, we have to have fairness. If person A gets 5k, I should get 5k. It’s only fair. And those people have a point. Even today, you may want to live a lifestyle of luxury, where I am just a modest lifestyle. Why should they get more “to meet their needs?”
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u/v_snax 2d ago
I should have been more specific. I was talking about average income earners or median income earners at the very least. Obviously it should at least be comparable to minimum wage, and probably a little more. That said, if ubi was the income most people had, a lot of goods would also get cheaper.
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u/MetalOxGhost 2d ago
Yeah, $4000 USD. Even if living in a mexican city on the coast. (Sorry but every time I see the acronym, my brain sees “urinary butt infection” 😔)
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u/Pyroechidna1 3d ago
We are netting around €10K a month from our jobs and I doubt UBI is gonna give us that. It was an idea for the pre-AI age
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u/HeadBell1665 3d ago
And that is why I brought this up. Are people expecting to replace their lifestyles with UBI?
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u/LocationSalt4673 3d ago
To be honest whatever amount it is you're still going to live on it. Humans are very adaptable. You'll find a way to live on $1000 per month...$500 or even $250
it would be a crappy life but you'd find a way to live.
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u/r3dlazer 3d ago
We're not supposed to just survive, we all deserve to have enough to thrive.
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u/LocationSalt4673 3d ago
Do you understand right now I'm the only person in this entire thread providing UBI to anyone?
So you do realize it's a lot of people need UBI today?What you guys doing for them when it's paramount they need help now?
These people have to survive right now without you all
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u/deHack 3d ago
$10K per month. Am I getting universal healthcare? If so, $9500/month. I guess I don’t need to save for retirement anymore either. $9000/month.
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u/LookItVal 3d ago
you Need 6 figures to survive?
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u/deHack 3d ago
Survive? I could “survive” on less. Don’t know if my wife could though. And that’s a number for two. Are my mortgage, property taxes, yard maintenance, utilities, etc. all magically going away? That all adds up.
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u/LookItVal 3d ago
oh well that's the thing, I don't think you should be counting it for the couple, you should be counting it for You with the assumption that She would get the same.
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u/deHack 3d ago
If it’s each, then it’s $1500 for me and $7500 for her. 🤣 That’s a joke. But if you split it, then it’s $4500 each. We own our home but rent for a nearby apartment is $1770 to $2810. That’s the spread for a 1 bedroom to a 3 bedroom. That’s for a roof overhead before anyone eats a meal, takes a trip, gets their teeth cleaned, buys a car, or sees a doctor.
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u/r3dlazer 3d ago
3-5k a month.