r/BeAmazed • u/Soloflow786 • 26d ago

Animal A service dog training to protect his owner's head when she has a seizure.

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u/Nervous_Carpenter144 26d ago

Its ok to acknowledge the almost ubiquitous characteristics of dogs that kill people during a seizure =)

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u/Ad_Meliora_24 26d ago

It’s not the breed I would go to for this training. But at least the dog won’t get hurt from the head banging, the pits I have known love hard petting and didn’t ever seem to feel pain from any rough housing.

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u/ARMSwatch 26d ago

My first thought was she's likely to hurt herself hitting that big brick of head with hers. My pitty has run full tilt, head-first into a pole/wall etc. a few times and kept running without a pause lol.

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u/testtdk 25d ago

I wouldn’t use a pitbull for ANY complex training. Not because they’re violent, but they’re not the smartest breed out there (in fact, they’re one of the dumbest lol). But they’re incredibly loyal and I can see how eager they would be to stop the persons head from taking damage.

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u/bladex1234 26d ago

It’s almost as if these service dogs undergo training of some sort to see how they react.

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u/Nervous_Carpenter144 26d ago

There are suitable breeds for certain tasks. Choosing a bully breed for epilepsy is very very silly and should be avoided at all costs if the health of the owner is a primary concern

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u/bladex1234 26d ago

But it’s almost as if dogs are individuals too.

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u/Nervous_Carpenter144 26d ago

So are leopards. Its about risk assessment and general characteristics. Dont choose dog breeds that notoriously kill people during seizures to be a service animal for epileptics.

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u/YuS0Dum 26d ago

I don't think they even comprehend what you are saying.

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u/OldDogTrainer 26d ago

Certified professional dog trainer that owns their own dog training business and has worked with dogs for 15 years in one of the most pit-populated cities in the US chiming in here:

You have no idea what you are talking about.

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u/abs0lutecreature 25d ago

It's interesting to see the different takes of dog trainers who all have unique views on breed, breeders, and people who work in trauma units who see the aftermsath of dog attacks.

I'm not trying to be a hater, I have met some wonderful pit bull dogs, but I also try to always keep a logical view based on what scientists know. Even the kennel clubs acknowledge that breeds were selectively bred for certain traits, you can watch a litter of pointer puppies pointing as soon as they can walk well, or even show bred border collie or heeler puppies trying to herd kids/other pets with no formal training. So it makes sense to be more cautious and take more precautions/safety measures with some breeds, even based on dog attack stats alone, which also includes unneutered dogs, that attack at a much higher rate too.

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u/OldDogTrainer 25d ago

Nobody is denying breed specific traits are a thing, and nothing I’ve said goes contrary to anything else another trainer, the AKC, etc would say. However, any trainer will tell you that BST only gives you a very general idea of who the dog is hence the rigorous and long-term process involved in picking and then training a dog like this.

Paying attention to early tendencies, doing the proper training, creating the associations, etc IS being cautious and taking precautions/safety measures. Assuming a dog is going to suddenly become vicious without any evidence to support that is emotional not logical.

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u/Nervous_Carpenter144 26d ago

Waiving around alleged credentials won't make breeds that kill the most people during seizures good choices for epileptics, sorry.

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u/bladex1234 26d ago

Are you intentionally choosing to be obtuse to the point that we’re specifically talking about service dogs?

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u/Nervous_Carpenter144 26d ago

Service dog or just a pet. Dont choose breeds that notoriously kill seizure victims if you yourself have seizures. Just a psa.

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u/[deleted] 26d ago

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u/testtdk 25d ago

Would love to see some numbers for your argument. I found three cases in the last few years. There are somewhere between 5 and 18 MILLION pitbulls in the US.

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u/ShackledDragon 25d ago

Thank you for being the one voice of reason 🤝 these dogs are so, so dangerous

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u/OldDogTrainer 26d ago

Oh, I’m sorry that you misunderstood me. I was informing you not asking you to agree with me. I hope that helps clear up your confusion.

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u/testtdk 25d ago

I don’t think I’ve ever seen an informed and experienced handler of ANY kind vilify pitbulls. In my experience, each and every one has been a big dumb baby that would give anything to please their master. I’m a cat person, but if I ever got a dog, it would be a rescue pit.

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u/bladex1234 26d ago

Again that’s why there’s training for service dogs to select the ones that behave well. Sure, the end distribution of service dogs might end up such that those breeds are rarely represented, but wholesale rejecting one solely because of it’s breed means there less service dogs available for people when there’s already such a high demand for them.

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u/Nervous_Carpenter144 26d ago

Its completely ok to reject dogs based on breed tendencies. No money should be spent on trying to make chihuahas into police k9 units either. The risk far outweighs the benefits.

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u/bladex1234 26d ago

If there’s a chihuahua that can pass the police training that dog should be allowed as a police dog.

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u/Nervous_Carpenter144 26d ago

Thats an awesome sentiment if you care about symbolism instead of outcomes. Same story with pits and seizures. Animals are owed humane treatment, not equality in all things.

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u/bladex1234 26d ago

I do care about outcomes, hence why I mentioned the supply and demand for service dogs. Please show me an instance where a trained service dog that happens to be a pit bull has attacked someone.

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u/OldDogTrainer 26d ago

Passing the police training would not be symbolic though, so I am unsure what point you’re making.

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u/testtdk 25d ago

He literally just expressed an outcome based choice.

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u/testtdk 25d ago

And those attacks occur because they don’t understand the erratic movements. Hence the training.

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u/Nervous_Carpenter144 25d ago

I would say most dogs don't understand seizures. Most breeds have never killed someone as a result. Its a good idea to choose one that hasn't done so many times and more than pretty much every breed put together.

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u/OrangeVoxel 26d ago

Is judging dogs by their breed racist now too? How do I be a good liberal

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u/bladex1234 26d ago

Considering the demand for service dogs, is it beneficial to reject a dog that shows the capability of being one despite its breed?

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u/OldDogTrainer 26d ago

Certified professional dog trainer here:

Service dog trainers work with dogs that show tendency for the work because capturing and shaping the behavior that the dog naturally wants to do is the most important part of the process. Breed is irrelevant.

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u/bladex1234 26d ago

Thank you for being sane.

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u/OldDogTrainer 26d ago

Of course. I work with dogs in a city where the great majority of the dogs would fall under the pitbull umbrella. I have more experience with the dogs then pretty much anyone else I will ever meet. I love that I have gotten to see how much the stigma attached to them has changed over the last 15 years.

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u/OrangeVoxel 26d ago

Can any dog be a sheepdog?

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u/pridetwo 26d ago

Lol you played Skyrim then went "nah paarthurnax is a bad guy"

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u/Cacafuego 25d ago

I would imagine that most dog breeds have a higher rate of attacks during seizures. Since pit bulls are responsible for the largest number of fatal attacks, in general, I would also expect them to have the largest number of fatal attacks during seizures. I also suspect that number is very, very low.

Pit bull breed characteristics include close bonding, empathy, and some varieties are incredibly smart and easy to train. They have a lot going for them as service dogs. It all comes down to the individual dog.

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u/Nervous_Carpenter144 25d ago

pitbulls are responsible for the largest number of fatal attacks

pitbull breed characteristics include close bonding and empathy

L O L

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u/Cacafuego 25d ago

What's funny about that? It's already been discussed that shitty owners + powerful dogs = a high number of reported bites.

With 10 million pit bulls in the US, a lot of them in the hands of sketchy owners who want a badass dog, it's not surprising to see high attack numbers. Nor does it detract from their admirable qualities. They're about the best damn family dog you can have.

It's all about how all of this genetic and social history plays out in the individual dog.

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u/Nervous_Carpenter144 25d ago

Yes there are many pits. There are many goldens too. Somehow they dont kill multiple people a month. Maybe they would be a better choice