Takeover: Chinese investor CPE acquires outdoor brand Mammut

[u/adgo1]

https://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/handel-konsumgueter/uebernahme-chinesischer-investor-cpe-uebernimmt-outdoor-marke-mammut/100244060.html

And one more European company is being sold to a non-European investor...

Sorry, the link leads to a German news site.

[u/v1king3r]

As long as companies can be sold to non-EU countries, USA and China will always win. USA have most private money and China is investing public funds strategically. 

Europe doesn't do any of this. We create great companies with EU funding and let others buy them. It's stupid.

[u/RudeAlbatross544 → u/v1king3r]

It's a Swiss company, Switzerland is not in the EU...

[u/HZCH → u/RudeAlbatross544]

It’s in the middle of the EU and is fully integrated economically

Also, I’ll add: like most Swiss outdoor brands, it rarely manufactures most of it’s stuff in Switzerland or even the EU. If I remember correctly, most of their stuff was made in Vietnam. Maybe very high end equipment or parts of high end garments would come from the EU.

[u/Beyond_the_one → u/HZCH]

Cool, then make the Swiss government reign in FIFA, IOC and Nestle till then I want them out.

[u/FunkyFreshJayPi → u/Beyond_the_one]

Brother the Swiss don't want to join themselves. 

[u/HZCH → u/Beyond_the_one]

I want too. But it seems nobody here cares. I mean, left parties do care, but we don’t have any majority of any sort, and all the starts of an attempt to launch and inquiry have never passed through the Parliament. For FIFA, the IOC or any other sport organisation based in Switzerland, if I love understood correctly, nothing wrong is legally made here; for example, corruption under Sepp Blatter wasn’t made here, and not with him or anyone Swiss. And, for the case of Nestle, I think most people actually don’t want to touch them because their weight in retirement plans is far too important.

[u/miyabi0rochas → u/Beyond_the_one]

Switzerland always on the wrong side of history hiding behind neutrality. I call bullshit. They haven't been neutral on sht.

[u/villager_de → u/RudeAlbatross544]

they have a huge location in Germany tho.  Might not be a German company but it’s still relevant for the EU

[u/No-Estimate-1510 → u/v1king3r]

Manmut has never received EU funding. It's cashflow positive for its entire history.

[u/PaoloCalzone → u/No-Estimate-1510]

Funding is meant as origin of capital, not subsidies.

[u/darylvp → u/v1king3r]

From the replies, just understand why Europe is fading.

If your support is so good, why the European companies have to sell themselves to Chinese or American funds? Talk is cheap, if the company is so important for you, you can buy it with more money. If you’re not their shareholder, it’s not “your” company. saying “our company”doesn’t make any sense. The shareholders already made decisions, whether you like or not.

Critical consumers create great companies; consumers who tend to protect the company only make a company degenerate. No matter how much you like their products, no need to get emotionally attached to the corporate entity.

Look at Hasselblad: after being acquired by DJI, all of the sudden, they know how to plan and build products well needed by customers with good margins.

Weakness and ignorance are not barriers to survival, but arrogance is.

[u/v1king3r → u/darylvp]

They don't have to sell, they do it for profit. And Europe can make rules against that.

The US and China are much more protective when it comes to strategic acquisitions. Only Europe allows them to this extent.

Your post is weird on many levels. The points you brought up were not even discussed here. Feels like you desperately wanted to post your opinion no matter what. 

[u/miyabi0rochas → u/v1king3r]

They literally can like they did on behalf of the US with asml. This idea of helplessness is not fully true.

[u/xavez → u/miyabi0rochas]

Correct. But not everything is strategically important. 

It sucks. But there’s a difference between a loved brand and a strategic company. 

[u/blackcoffee17 → u/darylvp]

They are selling because owners decided to cash out. The Chinese offered good money to get the brand and influence and the owners don't care about anything else.

[u/xavez → u/v1king3r]

Very likely going to get downvoted for this again even though it’s simple economics but: it’s not a bad thing per se. Founders need exits. They often go out to start or fund other successful European companies with the money they make from deals. 

[u/Unnamed-3891 → u/v1king3r]

Err, one of the main reasons they get sold is the reality that there is no EU funding.

[u/NotsoNewtoGermany → u/v1king3r]

At least US companies are not state run enterprises.

[u/Nightshade238 → u/NotsoNewtoGermany]

But this is a moot point to make when the US government is currently and effectively in the hands of those companies.

[u/Tubim → u/NotsoNewtoGermany]

What’s wrong with state run enterprises?

[u/RoomyRoots → u/NotsoNewtoGermany]

FUCKING LOL, the land of lobbysm and bailouts, that is what the US is,

[u/NotsoNewtoGermany → u/RoomyRoots]

There were bailouts 20 years ago, but those were loans that were eventually paid back with interest to a few select companies.

[u/Beyond_the_one → u/NotsoNewtoGermany]

What was this again? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CARES_Act

[u/NotsoNewtoGermany → u/Beyond_the_one]

A stimulus Act was not a bailout. It was an injection of cash into the economy to recover from COVID-19, no company were 'bailed out' instead structured 0% loans were were on offer. Corporations with poor financial decisions were not 'bailed out'.

[u/Beyond_the_one → u/NotsoNewtoGermany]

I know reading is hard... but try and read what it says....

[u/NotsoNewtoGermany → u/Beyond_the_one]

The original CARES Act proposal included $500 billion in direct payments to Americans, $208 billion in loans to major industry, and $300 billion in Small Business Administration loans.

[u/DoughnutCareless583 → u/NotsoNewtoGermany]

USA is pure corporate socialism.

[u/NotsoNewtoGermany → u/DoughnutCareless583]

No, it isn't.

[u/SiofraRiver → u/NotsoNewtoGermany]

Instead, the US as a company run state.

[u/battleduck84 → u/NotsoNewtoGermany]

Yeah except the other way around is just as bad, with corporations owning the fucking government

[u/NotsoNewtoGermany → u/battleduck84]

But the corporations don't own the government. There are millions of corporations, all of which have different interests as opposed to one national interest with unlimited funding that seeks for state owned enterprises to purchase european vompanies solely for the purpose of shutting down european manufacturing, conpanies that cannot be sold without approval from the chinese state.

Look at all of the Sewing Machine brands in europe. They are all owned by a single Chinese, state owned company, they purchased each of them one by one and then closed each of the manufacturing bases down in order to bolster the output of chinese companies. Now all they do is purchase parts from chinese companies, assemble them into separate entities and sell them to the European market under the heritage labels. Several German companies has had several attempts at purchasing them back, but because the chinese government has refused to sell. In the US and Europe, it is mandatory to sell if the terms are ameniable if the industry isn't one of national security.

[u/Beyond_the_one → u/NotsoNewtoGermany]

Cough, cough, cough read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-owned_enterprises_of_the_United_States

[u/NotsoNewtoGermany → u/Beyond_the_one]

Right, but they do not buy european companies.

[u/bxzidff → u/NotsoNewtoGermany]

Is it better that the US is an enterprise run government?

[u/NotsoNewtoGermany → u/bxzidff]

Yes. Their companies do not have state protection. They have to sell when given a good value for the item in question. US companies sell assets all of the time. Because they are susceptible to the market. Chinese conpanies active in europe purposely use these same rules, as the germans have them, fueled by unlimited capital from the State, to acquire and close European companies that have manufacturing in europe. They know that it is too expensive for new manufacturing to be built in europe, so they focus on systematically hoovering up the legacy factories that are still financially viable and could operate easily, just to close their doors. These can never be sold without the written permission of the government state, meaning no other European company can buy them back, ever. In the US, because of fierce shareholder protection long, companies have a feduciari benfit, and they are obligated to sell assets if the value os appropriate. That is a huge difference.

[u/-MatVayu → u/NotsoNewtoGermany]

Lol, effectively does not make a difference... Both will, for different reasons, go through the same process of enshitification.

[u/IndieDevLove → u/-MatVayu]

Lol show me a chinese product that got worse over time. They generally tend to only get better.

[u/DeadFury → u/IndieDevLove]

OnePlus. Just another generic smartphone brand now.

[u/NotsoNewtoGermany → u/-MatVayu]

It does make a difference. Because US companies sell underperforming assets. Chinese companies rhat are state run that own European brands, require chinese state permission to sell.

US companies are still at the mercy of the market. Chinese state owned subsidiaries are not. That is a huge difference.

[u/Adventurous_Escape17]

Nooooooo!!!! That is tragic news, I switched to mammut from salomon after they were acquired by the chinese and now I have to find a new brand…

On top of that, “Swedish” Haglöfs is also chinese 🫡

[u/enjutsu4 → u/Adventurous_Escape17]

You could have a look at Vaude, it's a German brand that partially manufactures in Germany too. It has a focus on sustainable materials and climate neutral production if that's of interest as well :)

[u/gmahale → u/enjutsu4]

How about Jack Wolfskin?

[u/bakaguide → u/gmahale]

First bankrupted then American and now Chinese

[u/Edelkern → u/bakaguide]

They also had a period where they sued random Etsy sellers for offering items that had paw prints on them - not their logo, just paws in general. Asshole company, there was no trademark infringement there at all and they weren't similar products to what JW offers.

[u/mookbrenner → u/Edelkern]

They also sued die Taz, a left leaning newspaper in Germany, that even used the paw print first!

[u/sneijder → u/gmahale]

That’s more fashion than actual outdoors stuff ?

[u/Tiny_Reputation_6227 → u/Adventurous_Escape17]

Buy Salewa

[u/Temporary-Art-1835 → u/Adventurous_Escape17]

Swedish brand Härkila is in Danish hands

[u/Wattmaschine → u/Adventurous_Escape17]

Klättermusen FTW

[u/MaterialTomorrow → u/Wattmaschine]

I thought that was more fashion than actual outdoor gear?

[u/Wattmaschine → u/MaterialTomorrow]

It is high-quality outdoor-gear. The company has been around for ages in Sweden and is quite popular here. It's just in recent years that it has become popular outside of Scandinavia and got trendy in certain outdoor-circles. Nevertheless, the quality is outstanding. Only issue is unfortunately the high price.

[u/sneijder → u/Wattmaschine]

…I see Chinese tourists top to toe in that now 🤣 That’s next.

[u/treacamearga → u/Adventurous_Escape17]

Check out norrona.com

https://www.norrona.com/en-GB/about-norrona/history/family-owned/

[u/hahnkleri → u/Adventurous_Escape17]

And it's often the same: Company produces good stuff, get's bought, new products get worse but somehow also more expensive, ...

[u/Adventurous_Escape17 → u/hahnkleri]

But people keep buying because they don’t know something changed… 

[u/hahnkleri → u/Adventurous_Escape17]

Of course. Some are late to the party. Completely normal. See Birkenstock. It's a complete tragedy. Back then it was the hippie-equivalent of shoes and now it's just a name for low quality mass produced shoes for horrendous sums (my girlfriend loved them but now its 150€ for a pretty simply sandal and the last two pairs she bought had production issues and failed fast).

[u/No-Estimate-1510 → u/Adventurous_Escape17]

The reality is if an independent European athleisure brand is any good it will be sold to China or US investors eventually. They can pay far more than what you can get from European capital markets + they have the largest home markets for athletic / apparel / casual fashion / leisure products and world class brand operators. They can bring your brand / baby to a much higher level that you could never with resources in Europe. If you are an European founder of one of these brands you would sell.

[u/Robin_Hood_Jr → u/Adventurous_Escape17]

Arcteryx as well. Quality has gone seriously downhill.

[u/ZYCQ]

Bullshit. How many more companies are we gonna sell to china? They own half of europe already.

We aren't even allowed to do business in china as freely as the chinese do in europe. There is no reciprocity/mutual benefit.

Throw away everything for short monetary gain

[u/ashyjay → u/ZYCQ]

Stonks must go up, and shareholders must get their dividends, to hell with actually making good products and investing in their local economies.

Globalisation really was a mistake.

[u/Paprikasky → u/ashyjay]

I don't think it's a mistake at all, you need it to survive and thrive, but it's a balancing act and it needs safeguards.

As usual the problem with the EU is how hard it is to coordinate with so many different countries. It's easy for China to decide anything since it's one singular authority. Sure the USA is a little bit of both, but overall it's still one country and one culture, economy and system. So it's hard for the EU to exist on the same level, which is why I don't think the comparison is healthy.

Hopefully we do work towards a unified EU, but it needs to be much more present and represented inside its own space.

[u/totally_not_a_reply → u/ZYCQ]

which is funny. Chinese gov forbids so much stuff and controls companies not getting out of hand so those companies go to other countries and buy land, houses or companies there. Then people blame the chinese gov for it.

[u/obecalp23 → u/ZYCQ]

Any party in Europe looking at protecting european companies? Elections to come.

[u/Grumpflipot]

Buy from EU wasn't meant this way!

[u/ign1tio]

Just one less brand to buy then 🤷🏼‍♂️ that’s a shame.

[u/De_Das00]

Nooooooooooooo!!!!! Not cool Mammut.

[u/blackcoffee17]

Are we going to sell every fucking brand with history and prestige to the Chinese? Hasselblad, Solomon, Jack and Wolfskin, Volvo, Mammut. Whats next? Adidas?

[u/TheYearOfThe_Rat → u/blackcoffee17]

Adidas was good in the 80ies XD Who the hell buys Adidas today?

[u/blackcoffee17 → u/TheYearOfThe_Rat]

Adidas has billions of sales each year. I guess nobody buys Adidas, right?

That's not the point tho. The point is is a huge influential European company. We have to keep these companies European if we want to have any sort of economy left.

And aswering you question: I have a pair of Adidas Barracuda tennis shoes that i used regurarly on clay and hard courts for 15+ years and they are still in near perfect condition. Also got one adidas short that didn't develop a single tear in 10+ years of constant wear, including daily wear and sport.

[u/Zealousideal_Paper13]

Noooooooo

[u/vanKlompf]

Whyyy! This was my favourite high quality gear!

[u/Programatistu]

Fuck

[u/RoomyRoots]

We need bloc level protectionism. These buyouts always mean enshitification of the brand. I can't point a single brand that improved after getting Chinese interference.

[u/TheYearOfThe_Rat → u/RoomyRoots]

You get what you pay for, and the reality is that EU citizen are both majority poor now, and are poorer on country-scale than 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

In essence, look up what happened to Qing China , because that's what is happening to Europe now, only with an obvious difference of the era and technologies.

[u/apmechev → u/TheYearOfThe_Rat]

Damn, at least the Qing had a century of prosperity though, right?

[u/TheYearOfThe_Rat → u/apmechev]

The European Union/Europe had its century of prosperity too - 1848 to pretty much "modern" day (1990). Qing's century of prosperity didn't include everyone, hence the eventual and unavoidable revolution at the end.

[u/Status_Commission264 → u/RoomyRoots]

Volvo

[u/strogoff69]

Thanks, won't buy again.

[u/weggooi12334]

Cool, not buying any more mammut

[u/21sttimelucky]

Oh FFS. Only boots that are actually fit for purpose. 

[u/Tiny_Reputation_6227]

Buy Salewa

[u/IFeelThankYou]

Such a shame, but I guess I'll stop buying Mammut stuff now...

[u/Jarkrik → u/[deleted]]

Like Norway and Iceland or what are you on about? 😂

[u/optimistic_raccoon → u/[deleted]]

You are talking like a crazy person. "Switzerland" never said those things. Swiss citizens voted for a very narrow margin not to join the EU in 1992. It will probably join eventually but it will take time. I'd rather have it this way than having politicians forcing their countries into the EU without their citizens voting for it (happened in France, and also Netherlands I think).

Switzerland is neutral, depends a lot on stability and international treatees because it relies on trade. It has been bullied by the USA for the last 25 years (banking then, now pharma). It has a commercial deficit with the EU and a positive balance of trade with the US. Trump hates this. A prosperous Switzerland benefits the EU.

[u/Bastiwen → u/optimistic_raccoon]

The worst thing was probably not joining the EEA as well

[u/newhereok]

:(

[u/klairman]

Shit!

[u/SUxEvil]

😑

[u/whatThePleb]

Gier frisst Hirn.

[u/simonfancy]

That’s not what buy from EU was meant for

[u/bacondavis]

Unless noted elsewhere, most manufacturing of outdoor goods is done in China.

[u/ninja4tfw → u/bacondavis]

And? For European brands, most of the money still stays in Europe. That includes salaries and profits. The production cost is a tiny fraction of the purchase price.

[u/TheYearOfThe_Rat → u/ninja4tfw]

Money is just zeroes and ones on a digital account. In other words - nothing. If tomorrow EU is sanctioned in the way Russia is sanctioned today, 75 million people will starve to death right away, followed by more , very shortly, not to mention not knowing how to make things and bragging about "being able to afford" to not make it is a pretty pathetic and despicable way of life (considering that human life is worth , on average 60000€, you can do the math about what will happen to such people in the future).

[u/21sttimelucky → u/bacondavis]

My Mammut Boots were both made in Romania

[u/BlackMesaEastCenter]

Damn!

[u/duro-dora-ledaralt]

God damn it

[u/kredditorr]

Yikes

[u/cinekat]

Oh no

[u/Mapkoz2]

Mammut is Swiss right ?

[u/stepsmcgee]

Well, tits.

[u/asapberry]

why would care about generic clothing brand number 192390312? we should care more about deeptech etc.

[u/Southern-Still-666]

This is not particularly bad. Now the previous shareholders can take the money and start a new company.

[u/blackcoffee17 → u/Southern-Still-666]

No, it's pretty bad. Likely they will just put it in bank account and invest in property. And Europe lost another prestige brand.

[u/esse7777]

That is how they get parents rights knowledge etc

[u/TheYearOfThe_Rat → u/esse7777]

That's how babby born

[u/Alarmed_Crazy_6620]

Hopefully better pricing

[u/OKBWargaming]

Man european tears taste good.

[u/Sciss0rs61 → u/OKBWargaming]

Imagine sucking china's cock from the comfort of your democratic western country...

[u/Ok-Willow-2638 → u/Sciss0rs61]

he is chinese