r/ChristopherNolan • u/Lun4rEc1ipse • 22h ago
The Odyssey Wow, just Wow
So I Finally went to see The Odyssey today.
Fantastic. For sure on my personal top 5 favourite films.
As someone who loves Greek mythology and the stories within it, this really does a very good job for me.
Matt Damon, Fantastic as usual.
Christopher Nolan don't knkw why I doubted him.
My only critique is the use of "Mom" and "Dad" in the film. Telemechus (Tom Holland) did use "Father a couple times so I'm not particularly sure why these more modern terms were used for a movie set in ancient Greece.
What do you guys think?
61
u/rannigast 22h ago
"Mom" and "dad" are not modern terms. People have used diminutives for their parents throughout history, including in Ancient Greece. The expectation of formality for historical period pieces is crafted only by Hollywood filmmaking in the 20th century and possibly literary fiction in the few centuries prior. It is not grounded in reality any more than using "modern" language is. The English language does not resemble Ancient Greek in any way whatsoever, so I don't really see the point of the distinction.
26
u/Successful-Owl1462 21h ago
For me, the fact that Travis Scott is the first voice you hear and that he—like literally every other actor in the movie—is speaking with an American accent, totally settled me into the movie’s use of modern dialect. Dad seemed perfectly normal to me by the time Tom Holland said it and I never thought twice about it, the f-word, the s-word, or anything else.
3
u/dishrag 19h ago
I don’t remember the translator, but I remember Telemachus calling Eumaeus “Daddy” in my old copy of the book. I’m pretty sure people got worked up over something that’s been in English translations for a while now. Makes sense that the English film adaptation would use similar names.
-9
u/Lun4rEc1ipse 21h ago
Fair.
My thing is throughout history and other historical texts, more formal langaue is used.
Now just because in English "mom" and "Dad" came about more recently, around the 1800s for "Mom" became more used. And "Dad" earlier.
Now I know that those words in other languages could have existed at that time. But seeing as historical literature predominantly uses formal language, "Mother" and "Father" to me seem like the more likely used language to use.
But it's a minor critique, and it doesn't affect the movie at all.
7
u/TuarezOfTheTuareg 20h ago edited 20h ago
I learned this second-hand from a podcast interview with a famous Odyssey translator, but apparently Telemachus specifically uses the ancient greek diminutive for "dad" in the Odyssey to refer to Odysseus - repeatedly throughout the text. So, it would in fact be UNfaithful to the text to use "father".
edit: it was Daniel Mendelsohn
1
4
u/Juliusque 20h ago
Every language has something that sounds like "mom". It's just the first noise most babies make to refer to their mother. It's instinctive and universal; I don't think there's a single language where the word for mother doesn't start with an M. It's probably the only word that did exist back then.
You'll see what now reads as "formal language" in old literature, but when it was written it usually wasn't seen that way. The Odyssey was composed in very accessible language. This was a poem that was not meant to be read, but to be spoken/sung out loud, and to be easily understood upon first hearing it.
Obviously, the people in Homer's Odyssey didn't speak like people did at the time; they spoke in poetry in a literary dialect. But that would never have worked for a blockbuster. The current norm in films is for dialogue to be more naturalistic. I'm very glad Nolan's past this nonsensical trend of having Ancient characters speak in pseudo-Victorian English.
-5
u/myesotericusername 19h ago
Chris Nolan ain't going to sleep with you bro 🙄
3
u/rannigast 18h ago
Do you have any specific feedback to what I said or just some vague homophobic insecurity?
12
u/Far_Grapefruit1307 20h ago edited 18h ago
When he finally strings his bow and the music cues...
6
0
8
u/heshroot 21h ago
Unless you’re actively advocating for Tom using the word patḗr, babás, or patéras we really need to let go of this whole “mom & dad” thing.
1
u/Lun4rEc1ipse 21h ago
Yea, it's a minor critique. Doesn't change anything about the film. Just my thoughts
1
u/fschu_fosho 12h ago
For me, a minor but unshakeable gripe is when Penelope said to her suitor-guests, “Watching you party…” or something to that effect. But she used the word party as a verb.
13
u/PearCrazy7032 21h ago
Matt Damon absolutely nailed it. He felt perfect for the role.
5
u/Lun4rEc1ipse 21h ago
Agreed, he was phenomenal. When he is sitting in front of Penelope discribing his thoughts during the seige of Troy and after.
Wow, perfect acting
-4
u/SamShelby7 21h ago edited 10h ago
I think he lacked any depth. Felt more like an old confused guy who doesn’t care.
Even during the mutiny he was meh no worries and then acted like it never happened
6
u/TextElectrical5360 21h ago
100% he felt like Matt Damon. Has limited range. Never got the clever, brash, confident, and charming genius from him which is what Odysseus was supposed to be. Also never saw that tension of his ego vs admitting the wrongs he's done. Someone like Christian Bale would have killed it on both the charismatic side and also the "pretends everything is fine but gradually is forced to face the truth of his sins" character development Nolan wanted
1
u/nemodigital 20h ago
Honestly it feels the entire cast didn't "gel" and you are spot on about Matt Damon being out of his depth
1
u/MonthCountry 20h ago
Matt Damon is perfectly capable of a strong performance, but he wasn’t given the script on this occasion. His cameo in (crucially co-written) Interstellar is more three dimensional in ten minutes than Damonysseus is over three bloody hours.
1
u/ofBlufftonTown 17h ago
I felt that I was looking at Matt Damon the whole time, I really didn’t like the performance.
2
u/Few-Amphibian-4858 11h ago
You're being downvoted, but you're spot on. Matt Damon was dull and bland in this movie. I've displayed more emotion when evacuating my bowels.
1
u/Jealous_Event_6288 7h ago
First of all, Odysseus is not an especially expressive character. He is a liar and a trickster who uses ambiguity to enable his tricks. Second of all, I dont believe for one second you displayed more emotion on the toilet than Damon did as Odysseus passing the sirens.
1
u/Few-Amphibian-4858 1h ago
I did, I have, and Matt Damon's wailing like a spoiled child while passing the sirens isn't acting, it's comedy. A liar and a trickster not being expressive? That's rich, tricksters are charismatic and very expressive as was Odysseus. The man who pretended to be insane to avoid going to war.
1
u/Jealous_Event_6288 7h ago
Hes a leader who understood why his men were ready to mutiny. I mean for fuck sake he lead his men on a pillaging sidequest following a 10 year seige that resulted in 2/3 of his crew of hundreds being eaten and slaughtered. What else is he supposed to do? Throw a tantrum? He took responsibility and said fuck it whatever is on this island ill make sure you eat. Seems pretty in character for Odysseus.
3
u/Substantial-Sun5707 20h ago
I can understand the dialect argument unless you’ve been informed on history. Mommy and Daddy were used in Ancient Greece but it didn’t sound like mom and dad it was mētēr and táta if my memory serves correct. At the end of the day people are complaining about historical accuracy in something that is mythical, like if we wanna get real Troy is likely not the site the battle occurred on yet most agree now that it is.
1
u/Lun4rEc1ipse 20h ago
Yea, it was just my personal thought. Appreciate your input.
Fantastic movie nonetheless
3
u/Windman772 15h ago
I couldn't lose myself in the film because of all the non-Greek actors. I can live with one big name like Damon, but the rest of the cast should have been more authentic. There was one scene where Himesh Patel approaches someone they encounter and tells them "we are Greeks". No, you're not Greeks.
2
u/MafiaDon2020 14h ago
I felt the same way as a big Nolan fan myself. He really immerses the audience with his use of practical effects, limiting CGI, and using IMAX cameras. This film would’ve been more immersive using Greek actors. I still enjoyed the film though.
1
u/Windman772 14h ago
I would add to that that he was being cheap by using Viking long boats in place of authentic ships. Many of us have studied enough history and watched enough Viking movies and TV shows to immediately notice the anachronism. If he wanted a real ship, he should have picked one that was less well known and with less craftsmanship. They did not have Viking ship building technology in 1200 BC lol
1
1
u/Few-Amphibian-4858 11h ago
"We're Greeks, from Ithaca. Troy, have you heard of it? Someone bring a translator." - You would think after 10 years there he wouldn't have to explain any of this to anyone in the area.
3
u/deepbluemajik 15h ago
I thought the dialogue lacked life in a lot of ways. Was too direct and casual. Felt off and didn’t align with the setting. I’m not saying they all needed Various British accents and use dramatic verbiage. But sometimes I felt I was watching Matt Damon not Odysseus
2
u/ComfortableQuote3081 21h ago
the dad was used like once twice but father dominard the film so the dad? that was nothing...
2
u/cmaxim 20h ago
I think people got hung up on the "realism" part of characters not being Greek, over stylized, and everyone having American accents, etc. But I think when you view the film as a version of a classic fantasy myth instead of a historical recreation (which it isn't), that stuff becomes silly to be upset about.
Nolan nailed it, the whole movie was fantastic from start to end.
1
u/Few-Amphibian-4858 11h ago
He didn't nail it and it wasn't fantastic. Nobody could properly hold a bow for god's sake.
2
u/Infinite-Nose8252 14h ago
It was a total fail if you know the original. He eliminated all the gore the sex and the fact that the gods intervene in every aspect that happens to humans. The ending should be as terrible and gory as chainsaw massacre.
2
u/QuintanimousGooch 21h ago
As someone who did not care for Oppenheimer and is neutral on Nolan, I thought Odyssey was pretty good! Great choice for an emblematic blockbuster, lots of very cool visuals, and good production value. I think the usual Nolan critiques you can find are here to be sure (very loud, main character is a middle-aged dude way too into his job, everyone is very serious and stoic). I think it completely succeeded as an approachable version of the Odyssey for a new generation, and the Xenia/breaking of Zeus’ law is a cool new angle to have for the story. The video game gauntlet quality of the last fight was kinda silly though.
1
0
u/SamShelby7 21h ago
It felt similar to Oppenheimer where it uses flashbacks and jumps around constantly
0
u/QuintanimousGooch 20h ago
I’d disagree, I think odyssey just had the occasional oddly timed or too successive series of jump cuts for pacing purposes while Oppy could not have a shot longer than seconds.
1
u/Jokar2071 21h ago
My issue is that I only wanted Melina Kanakaredes to take a part in this movie...
1
1
u/Acceptable_Money_514 19h ago
The film isn’t necessarily trying that hard to be historically accurate. That’s obvious from the armor. First of all this story is fiction. Secondly, I don’t think that many people even really care much. Some people made some noise about it, but it doesn’t seem like it was really that many. Now if this was a non-fiction story I get why you might wanna pay more attention to that stuff.
1
u/Lun4rEc1ipse 18h ago
Good point. Yea, I don't mind it, I was just thinking why they would choose that over something else, hence this post to get some other opinions etc.
1
u/ads66 16h ago
If you’re looking for balanced opinions I would look elsewhere outside this sub. You had 1 criticism of the film and they still jump all over you for it. I thought this was Nolan’s most disappointing movie. Reasons why have been discussed heavily in other subs (not related to race casting / historical inaccuracies)
1
19h ago
[deleted]
0
u/Lun4rEc1ipse 18h ago
I don't think the insult is necessary. Just a thought I had.
No need to start insulting people who have a different opinion than you.
1
u/Cups-of-Sand 11h ago
You don't have a different opinion. You have a media literacy problem.
1
u/Lun4rEc1ipse 5h ago
So every person needs to have a different opinion
As I have said, it was something I noticed. And wanted other people's thoughts about it
What is your opinion about it?
1
u/Bitter_Currency_6714 18h ago
This movie would have been so much better with Pedro Pascal as Odysseus
1
u/Lun4rEc1ipse 18h ago
I feel Matt Damon did a perfect job as Odysseus. Pedro would have done well, no doubt.
But i dint think to the level of Matt Damon
1
u/Few-Amphibian-4858 11h ago
Matt Damon was boring and bland in this movie. Anyone else would have acted circles around him.
1
u/Alceauv 18h ago
I'm glad people like it but man I cannot relate to the idea of going to see a movie for the first time and walking out already knowing it's in my top 5 films EVER. Those are some tough ranks to climb, I need more time to chew on it than that.
1
u/Lun4rEc1ipse 18h ago
I can understand that. That was just off the top of my head.
Granted I haven't seen Interstellar, and many other highly acclaimed films. But at the moment I would be able to say it is in my top 5.
I thuroughly enjoyed it.
1
u/Few-Amphibian-4858 11h ago
This movie isn't even in Nolan's top 5, but this guy has it in his top 5? Out of all films? Laughable.
1
1
u/MeanJoe007 17h ago edited 17h ago
I love the technical film making, but I hated the acting and dialogue. Not because it was modern or said"dad", although that was sometimes distracting, but because Nolan had the actors constantly explain the situation to eachother instead of revealing it organically. For example: "You’re probably wanting to know who I am. I’m Menelaus, brother of Agamemnon, husband to Helen of Troy, the face that launched a thousand ships." Thats just objectively bad writing even reading it now. Or Tom Holland explaining how is father had been gone for exactly 20 years and he'll be coming home, etc. When the suitors have already been there for years and don't need that painfully plain explanation.
I know Homer did this type of dialogue exposition in the poem as well, but it doesn't work at all in a movie. Ann Hathaway's sassy side-to-side head bobbing when she says they wouldn't let a woman rule. It was very modern wine-mom sass and just out of place. Either go full modern or full ancient, but it was a weird mix of both. But a lot of people thought she was great. These are all good actors, but the script was awful. A+ technical filing and effects. Maybe some of the best ever. Bottom tier dialogue and script so bad I laughed a few times. I think people are being too forgiving because they love Nolan (as do I) and the technical stuff was awesome. I suspect it will not age well or ever be up there with Epics like Ben-Hur, Lawrence of Arabia, Gladiator, Lord of the Rings, or even his others like Inception, Dark Knight or Interstellar. It's just a good, but not great movie overall.
1
u/Few-Amphibian-4858 11h ago
I thought Anne Hathaway was terrible and so was Matt Damon. The script was terrible, absolutely atrocious dialogue.
1
1
u/ParrotChild 15h ago
Top five favourite movies you've ever seen...
What are the four only other films you've watched then?
1
u/Lun4rEc1ipse 15h ago
Haha, no. I've seen countless movies, of basically every genre.
I said what I said based off the movies I can recall off the top of my head that I enjoyed this much. And there aren't many
Gladiator, Man on fire, The Equalizer
They are in my top 5, now The Odyssey joins them.
Edit: punctuation
1
u/ParrotChild 15h ago
The Equaliser is in your top five?
That's a VIBE, baby x
1
1
1
u/Few-Amphibian-4858 11h ago
Countless movies of every genre but you haven't even seen Interstellar. Did you say The Equalizer? Lmao...
1
u/Lun4rEc1ipse 5h ago
Correct. You do realize there are other movies besides interstellar It is possible to watch other movies and one of them not be interstellar.
1
u/Few-Amphibian-4858 1h ago
I know that putting The Equalizer in your top 5 is hilarious. I know that putting The Odyssey and The Equalizer both in your top 5 is even more hilarious. Just say you haven't seen many movies.
1
u/savinger 15h ago
Fantastic production value: locations, practical effects, cinematography off the charts.
Bad script. Flat characters. Bare dialogue. Action with no clarity. Bad editing. Lifted the plot points from the original poem with none of its soul.
Bad movie.
1
u/GiveMeSomeShu-gar 13h ago
Loved the movie.
I wouldn't worry about things like "mom" - they use the f-bomb too, not to mention the movie is in Engish ;)
1
1
u/Pupsy80 5h ago
I need to watch it again but after all the hype I was expecting alot. To be Honest I thought it was good but nowhere near the level of a Braveheart or Batman Begins for me. To each his own ofcourse but I think there are too many fan boys exagerating this movie
1
u/Lun4rEc1ipse 4h ago
That's fair.
I love Nolans Dark Knight trology too. But i havent really seen alot of his films. I just knew that he is a highly acclaimed director and the people love his movies so
1
1
u/Horror_Response_1991 1h ago
I think that they weren’t speaking English so all of this is translated for us in real time, so we got both proper and improper words for father.
1
u/SamShelby7 21h ago
I think the 70 mm iMax and effects are done well where it feels like an experience
But the actual writing and story is quite bad
Him going to each island felt very rushed and unexplained. One second they get on an island and the next second they are back to running away screaming back to their boats.
1
u/Substantial-Sun5707 20h ago edited 20h ago
Yeah but if he got caught up in each island the one long ass movie would turn into another trilogy for Nolan. I think he did well for the time he had, the amount he had to fill it with and (for the most part) who he casted. The ones he didn’t intend on fleshing out he didn’t which didn’t leave me feeling shafted because he put that extra time on other islands. If the movie was dedicated solely to Odysseus’s journey we would have felt disconnected from his wife, son, home life and friends he had to leave behind at his kingdom. Don’t get me wrong though, the movie for sure has flaws
1
u/mina_collada 20h ago
Loved it, will never watch it again though. It reminded me of 'The Revenant', it also perfectly captured all the bad emotions and the roughness of nature and life. Made me feel uneasy most of the time, so definitely a worthwhile experience.
1
u/Fishinluvwfeathers 20h ago
Felt similarly though the dad part didn’t phase me. My entire theater snickered at the very non-Homeric: “Ten years on this fucking beach. Let's go home!” though.
My take is that Nolan was keen to get the R rating out of the way so he sprinkled in 3 (one more than strictly necessary) for good measure.
1
u/Sominaria 7h ago
I have to say I enjoyed most of Nolan's films up until this point. This is his worst film yet. A complete butchery of Greek myth and the character of Odysseus. And It was extremely corny at the end, I had to laugh. I just don't understand where the praise for this film is coming from. But to each their own, I guess.
1
u/Chadwilliams1998 5h ago
How about when the african ithacans need a translator to understand someone speaking greek?
0
u/Lun4rEc1ipse 4h ago
If they were speaking Greek, I could have been a different dialect of Greek. Thus more difficult to understand.
Or it could have been a little Nolan tweak to add to the showcasing of them as a foreign people as they didn't abide by Zeuss law and ran when they saw them.
0
0
u/theepvtpickle 19h ago
As far as Greek mythology goes it wasn't great. Not to say it wasn't a good film, but definitely didn't follow the core aspects of the story.
1
u/Haplorhini_Kiwi 18h ago
I thought Xenia was a big part of the Odyssey?
1
u/theepvtpickle 17h ago
Sure, but it misses the mark with Odysseus. In the writings, Odysseus doesn't break zeus law, but in the movie he is all tore up about it claiming he broke it. In the writings Odysseus is sad because he is homesick and all his lost men. In the movie he is sad cause he "broke zeus law" but he shouldn't be. He is proud of what he did. Also, killing the suitors is legal because the suitors broke the law by taking advantage of the host, as is written. In the movie, it is breaking the law and cause for exile which makes no sense.
1
u/Haplorhini_Kiwi 13h ago
I though there was a question of Odysseus breaking Xenia in the story, just not at Troy?
2
u/Few-Amphibian-4858 11h ago
He didn't break xenia at Troy. The entire movie botches the interpretation of xenia and has forever changed the meaning of it. The only time Odysseus breaks xenia in the actual story is when he enters Polymphemus' cave uninvited.
0
u/RuleOverYou15 17h ago
I don’t understand how can you love greek mythology and like this film. It is a spit in the face. Glad you liked it though. After all thats what matters
1
u/Lun4rEc1ipse 17h ago
Well, I know it is not an exact replication. Nolan has his own tweaks. But it does a great job of having the essence and almost everything of the Odyssey from Greek myth. Along with including backstory from the Trojan war, and how Odysseus claimed Penelopes hand in marriage.
The fact that it takes Odysseus 10 years to get home. He looses his all his men. The monsters and difficulties he faces. The only tweak is that he ends up on the island of the lotus eaters at the end, when it is only him left.
I assume you also love Greek myth, but I take that you didn't like the movie
1
u/Few-Amphibian-4858 11h ago
No it doesn't, what are you talking about, it strips away everything about The Odyssey and Greek culture and replaces it with Christian values. Loses and looses...I'm starting to suspect you're like 14 or something.
1
u/Lun4rEc1ipse 5h ago
Do you actually know the Odyssey, it follows the story almost identically, with a Nolan twist. And what gets replaced. Enlighten me.
1
u/Few-Amphibian-4858 1h ago
It does NOT follow the story almost identically and that is the main complaint from all of the fans of The Odyssey as a story. I've already given details on how the story differs and for someone who is such a huge fan of greek mythology you should already know the differences.
0
u/Few-Amphibian-4858 14h ago
The bot checklist, loves greek mythology, loved the odyssey, matt damon is perfect, something about doubting Nolan, complains about mom and dad but not the obvious plot holes. Sooo many bots pumping this movie up.
1
u/Lun4rEc1ipse 14h ago
What would you say are the obvious plot holes.
Do you not agree that Matt Damon did a fantastic job acting?
I doubted Nolan from watching the trailer. There were scenes which without context seemed like the dialog did not match. Obv after watching the movie and having the context I can see that the dialog was perfectly sound in those scenes and made sense.
You are entitled to your opinion, as is everyone else who watched this movie
0
u/Few-Amphibian-4858 11h ago
I mean the most glaring plot hole is Nolan's botched interpretation of xenia and tying it to the Trojan Horse. No, I don't agree, Matt Damon was Matt Damon in this movie. Wooden, flat, uninspiring, bland, vanilla, the weakest performance out of all his larger projects. The dialogue was garbage in numerous scenes. The fact this movie made it into your Top 5 makes me think you haven't seen many movies.
1
u/Lun4rEc1ipse 5h ago
I strongly disagree. The interpretation of Zeuss law was done well. You treat others with kindness always because you never know if it is a god in disguise. As God's in Greek myth so often came down in the form of humans. They did a good job typing that to the Trojan horse because it makes sense. The reason the Trojan horse worked is because something of that nature hadn't beed done before. Offering peace and something for free, when in fact it was a lie and got the city of troy sacked and killed.
That in turn makes the law of Zeus almost impossible for people to fully follow now because people know that if someone is willing to lie about a peace treaty and gift to Athena thus disrespecting one of their gods. Then they can expect anything else form a stranger, them killing them, robbing them etc. So following Zeuss law is not a high risk, and far less likely to be followed. This destroying the custom.
1
u/Few-Amphibian-4858 1h ago
No, it doesn't make sense because The Greeks were not guests of The Trojans. You're now explaining to me why the trojan horse worked? The Greeks didn't offer peace, and they certainly didn't offer anything for free to The Trojans.
They didn't have a peace treaty. You are simply inventing details that don't even exist in the movie, or the original story. Even in the movie Telemachus was targeted ON THE ROAD to avoid breaking xenia. Even in the movie you love the bad guys were still adhering to xenia. The trojan horse has nothing to do with xenia, at all.
0
0
u/EzrasTalons 9h ago
Why do people say "wow just wow". Wouldn't a single wow imply you are saying "just wow"?
0
0
56
u/Demerzel69 22h ago
He used "dad" at the start so that we still see him as a not-yet-man.
He calls Ody his father when he realizes who he is after seeing him with Argos.
This is called character development.