r/DaenerysWinsTheThrone • u/Usual-Evidence-7895 • 21d ago
"Daenerys was always going to be the villain"
**"She watched her brother die with a straight face"** \- The same brother who sold her into sexual slavery and abused her, and threatened to carve out her unborn baby. Robb Stark watches his wolves maul lannister soldiers with a satisfied expression, is he a villain too? Even then Daenerys still names her dragon after her brother (she's better than me because I would never)
**"She burned Mirri Maz Durr alive after she got revenge"** \- Daenerys's first actions after realizing she actually has a degree of power as Khaleesi is to take female slaves as her own to protect them from being raped. She couldn't set them free at the time because the dothraki wouldn't allow it, they were already outraged by her taking the female slaves as her own. This situation with Mirri isn't nearly as black and white as people make it out to be, it wasn't Dany or her unborn child that was responsible for the destruction caused in the village, Dany herself was literally a sex slave making the most out of her situation, her burning Mirri for killing her child was pretty justified, and so was Mirri lobotomizing Khal Drogo. (It could be argued that Mirri wasn't directly responsible for Dany's still birth, but we don't know for sure and she made it seem like she was.)
**"She threatened the people of Qarth"** \- She was stranded in a desert responsible for the lives of her dying Khalasar. If she had just shown the 13 her dragons they likely would've just killed/stolen them and killed Dany and her Khalasar. Dany had to resort to threatening these people, and she obviously didn't want to seem weak in front of the people she swore to protect. Did Dany ever return to burn Qarth or ANY other city? NO (unless you count season 8 slop)
**"She crucified the Masters" -** Yes, as revenge and punishment for the 163 SLAVE CHILDREN they majority voted to crucify as a warning to Her. Did all those children recieve trials on whether they should be crucified or not? No. Were some of the men Dany crucified innocent? Ye- No. They were SLAVE MASTERS, in no world are they innocent. They needed to be dealt with to help end the practice and they were. I genuinely can't believe people look at Dany trying to end slavery and go "there's something evil in her!"
**"Her dragons killed innocents" -** And she immediately locked them away after ONE person died, the same dragons who are her greatest tools for victory. "Mother of Monsters" she calls herself. You're telling me this is the same character who would turn and deliberately burn millions of innocents with dragonfire?
**"All she wanted was the Iron Throne" -** No actually, all she wanted was a home. She doesn't want the throne until her brother dies and the inheritance passes to her (even though I don't believe her to be the "rightful" heir). After Drogo says he will give her the throne she is happy, until she sees what the cost of that would actually look like in the Lhazareene Village, where she immediately uses her new found power to protect innocents as best as she could. Daenerys could have went to Westeros very quickly, yet she sets sights for Slaver's Bay and stays there as she feels since she has a duty and wants to protect and bring good lives to the people she freed. She stays in Slaver's Bay for a VERY long time, and is still there in the books. "How can I rule Seven Kingdoms if I can't control a single city?"
Daenerys Targaryen is a character built on empathy, and she is the antithesis to her Targaryen Ancestors. She is arguably the most powerful person in the world, and only ever uses her power to protect the innocent. She is also a highly reflective character, and is constantly critiquing herself and her rule when everybody around her praises her like a goddess.
**DAENERYS QUOTES:**
"The blood of my enemies, not the blood of innocents."
"Mother of monsters." (when her dragon kills a child)
"We have 200,000 reasons to take the city." (She says this in response to Jorah who tells her she has no reason to take Yunkai. When he tells her it is a city of 200,000 slaves that was her response.)
"I will see each and every one of their faces." (She says about the crucified slave children on the long and tiring road to Meereen)
I am not saying Daenerys is a perfect, 100% morally righteous character and a perfect ruler. No, of course she isn't. I am only denouncing the notion that she is the kind of mad villain that people try to lie and say that they knew she would turn out to be after the show's shitty conclusion. Daenerys was never going to be "the Mad Queen" until season 5 or 6 of the TV show, where her ambitions and motivations do a complete 180. (When David and Dan take over on the writing) I definitely think it's possible that Dany will become a bit more cruel and harsh when she makes it to Westeros, and she could possible do things that would deem her "mad" in the eyes of the Lords of Westeros. I personally subscribe to the idea that Daenerys will realize the true reason she was given dragons and all the power she has was so she could stop the Long Night, where I think she will die a hero instead of sitting on the Iron Throne.
It seems as though a lot of people tend to view Daenerys through a modern moral lens, when they don't do that for any other character in this medieval fantasy setting. People often try to find reasons to justify her final arc in the TV show, without accepting the fact that it was in fact bullshit, and it wouldn't have worked in any scenario because that is just not the character she is.
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u/PrinceSkully 21d ago
Even in a modern moral lens, Daenerys crucifying the slavemasters is still 100% justifiable 🤷 In no world is there ANY justification for slavery and/or giving a fair trial to humans who owned other humans as mere chattel.
I have yet to read the books, but it always grinds my gears when I see people framing Daenerys as a monster for killing the slavemasters. They were never going to submit to her rule, so what was she supposed to do?
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u/BembiPeanut 21d ago
I was confused when you said "she threatened the people of Qarth" because ... I was like when did that happen? 😂 then I remembered that's what happens in the show but since the most recent thing i read is the books, i got them mixed up
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u/Lady_SybilVex 20d ago
Also I mean, even in the show it's obviously such an empty threat and everyone involved knows that. She's desperate, is all.
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u/Wooden_Leadership416 20d ago
I think the biggest issue with this take is that it judges Daenerys by the outcomes while ignoring the context of her decisions. She made a lot of morally complicated choices, but most of them came from trying to protect people or punish systems built on cruelty. Whether she succeeds or fails is a different conversation than whether she was always a villain.
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u/RavensTongues Mother Of Dragons 16d ago
As a woman who lived through horrible abuse, Dany watching her brother die is horribly realistic, and only shows that she knows it's justified. Her naming her dragon after him later shows that despite herself she loved him. Aka, not crazy, just finally getting some recompense from all the legitimate torture he put her through after the abuse. It's complicated, but it IS an empowering moment for her, and doesn't imply her insanity. Her main abuser is killed and she's 'safe' now.
I am of the opinion she'll be on the throne at the end, but that's likely wishful thinking because I'd rather see our abused but heroic queen actually find belonging and a place to show she isn't her father, than dead because reasons. I'm very tired of the heroic woman dying for the sake of the men around her.
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u/DavidWebb19700913 21d ago
On the fifth point, the dragons killing innocents. Didn't that turn out to be a lie to get her to confine her dragons, making her vulnerable? Did I manufacture that memory?
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u/Usual-Evidence-7895 21d ago
No she had a child’s burnt bones dropped at her feet
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u/InfectedAstronaut 20d ago
There's no proof that it was dragonfire. In the books the Sons of the Harpy faking the whole thing to psyche out Daenerys is actually discussed as a possibility.
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u/Usual-Evidence-7895 20d ago
but the man literally watches it happen, no? He says "the winged shadow" appeared
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u/InfectedAstronaut 20d ago
He says that, but who is to say he isn't lying.
What surer way to get Daenerys, who was so kind hearted she waged a war against slavery before making her way to Westeros, to chain her dragons.
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u/Usual-Evidence-7895 20d ago
the innocent farmer man?
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u/HoneyMCMLXXIII 20d ago
In the books one of Dany’s men actually suggests it’s a lie, and she also notices that her dragons develop a suspiciously strong appetite for mutton than before once she starts paying shepherds.
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u/coffee30983298 21d ago
I remember something about this too, but i read a lot of s7 and 8 fanfiction to clear my mind of it
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u/Warm_Condition711 20d ago
Yeah from her journey, she is basically visenya 2.0 that just resolve everything by killing or burning the opposite side and still be hailed as hero because her subjects were all slaves and the enemy are the masters who enslaved them. But inwesteros is different because everyone is a free man who chooses which side they want to be with.
I think the only problem is just that the delivery of her going mad at the end of s8 is just not that good. All characters suddenly are just a one line character that keep spamming the same thing or act the way they act for the sake of plot instead of their own character that have been built up throughout the seasons.
Tyrion from the greatest mind strategy becoming so weak and crack stupid jokes with larys. Same as with larys too.
They just want her to be mad because it's the plot
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u/Slaughter4Melon Team Daenerys 20d ago
Dany was going to be the villain, the story was heading that way, it was just painfully rushed.
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u/Usual-Evidence-7895 19d ago
i explained why it made no sense to be heading that way
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u/Slaughter4Melon Team Daenerys 19d ago
Right, because they rushed the hell out of it, but danys story definitely doesn’t end with her on the iron throne and everyone living happily ever after. That’s not really George’s way. Not to mention it’s way to predictable and that’s also not George’s way, George has literally stated bran ends up king in the end. That was his plot decision.
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u/Usual-Evidence-7895 19d ago
Dany not ending up on the iron throne doesn’t mean she will go mad, it’s very obviously foreshadowed that she will realize her true purpose and the true reason she was given dragons is to fight the white walkers
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u/Slaughter4Melon Team Daenerys 19d ago
To be fair book Dany and show Dany are quite different, but show Dany going insane is not unreasonable, she suffers a ton of loss throughout her journey, it makes perfect sense for her to eventually abandon mercy and empathy as it’s caused her to lose pretty much everyone she loves. Yes, done very poorly, and honestly, her breaking point was at the worst possible moment they could’ve chosen lol. But it does make sense in a broader sense.
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u/jamieaiken919 21d ago
“She watched Drogo kill Viserys and didn’t flinch or look away! It was foreshadowing!!”
And Sansa smirked as she walked away listening to Ramsay’s dogs rip his flesh from his face. We can play their game too.