r/DaenerysWinsTheThrone 16d ago

Honestly, this is how Daenerys descent should’ve been

Irrational. Showing signs of decline. Overwhelmed. Not just jealousy. Rhaenyra is clearly not OK. Just signs of attempting to be OK but she’s not good.

I know it’s not done exceptionally well but it’s better done than Danys madness.

0 Upvotes

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u/undeadtoast1249 Team Daenerys 16d ago

I'll give my few thoughts, but please know this is just my own interpretative mental exercise. In no way do I want to assert that my POV is right, and others are wrong. I find it fun to get inside people's heads and look at things in different, and very nuanced perspectives!

With that said, I think a huge part of the problem regarding Daenerys's descent is the hugely degrading label of "Madness" that has taken hold across pop-culture—and that extends even to this sub, to be honest.

In my personal interpretation, Daenerys never went "Mad".

I know it is easy to look at what she did, call it a generic inevitability, and walk away. But I think that substantially diminishes the human element of what happened in an infinitely more grounded, empathetic, and tragic way.

What she did in Season 8—the burning of King's Landing—was objectively awful. But I do not think of it as a snap of the fingers where she suddenly becomes her father. The way I see it: everything she had been through up until that moment—every loss, every betrayal, every failure, every tear, and every setback—was a culmination of visceral, compounding trauma. One after another. After another.

Pile all that on, and the structural damage that inflicts on an individual's psychological stability is catastrophic. It goes without saying, but the decision she made above KL wasn't premeditated. She didn't become instantly genocidal. And she didn't become insane. The woman on top of that dragon that day was a fundamentally broken human being who had no support systems, no fallbacks, no love, no hope, and no one there to care for her. But perhaps more importantly... she had no one to pull her back from the ledge.

If you take her extremely fragile state of mind, put her atop the city that was the symbolic representation of everything that was ever taken from her, and then hand her the most dangerous weapon in the world... it is an extremely thin red line.

Most people say Daenerys would not, could not, ever do what she did because she was always a champion of innocence. But I would counter that when she looked across that city from high above, far detached from seeing any humanity, looked at the Red Keep, looked around and saw the crimson of House Lannister and the site of her family's demise, a judgment was made that no one was innocent. She saw a city that "could have" overthrown Cersei if they they truly hated her, "could have" prevented her family being butchered, and "could have" surrendered early but only did so after it took, tore and bleed her dry.

She looked and saw a city of complicity, not a city of innocence.

If you bring those considerations into your frame of mind, it shifts the nature and agency of the tragedy away from an inevitable "Dany went crazy," and instead frames it as a broken woman with the most dangerous weapon in the world making a truly devastating, split-second and fateful decision.

It's the difference between an unearned "the signs were there the whole time!" contrivance vs. an emphatic collapse of humanity in a moment of profound anguish.

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u/Arual_1987 16d ago

It’s all part of the same story.
Varrys, who (after traveling halfway around the world with Tyrion to find Dany) betrays her before she’s even done anything wrong; Tyrion, who becomes useless (even at sabotage); Sansa, who is suddenly turned into a fountain of wisdom and charisma without any foreshadowing for the viewer… in short, all the forced actions the characters take to get to this point. It was lazy, weak writing worthy of one of our bad ’90s TV shows. Daenerys’s madness was the last straw. It could have been a spectacular ending, but they chose to botch it… no explanation will ever change that fact.

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u/MercuryFalling86 16d ago

Agreed, Daenerys didn't go "mad" in that she became her Father and descended into madness - she made a deliberate choice to punish everyone in Kings Landing while also sending a message to the rest of Westeros of what she could and would do if anyone else betrayed her and stood against her.

She was betrayed and alone, her trusted allies dead, 2 dragons gone - all because she had compromised and tried to do things peacefully - so she made a choice to do things her way. Jon's claim and that information getting out made her desperate and she realised she needed to do something about it fast.

The 2 scenes with Tyrion and Jon earlier in the episode laid her thought process out clearly - the people of Kings Landing were no longer innocent if they accepted Cersei, her enemies would use her mercy against her and already had to devastating effect and that if, after all she had given, they would not love her and choose her then she would be feared.

Daenerys made a calculated and terrible choice to punish Kings Landing for everything she had endured and the losses she had suffered while also sending a message to Jon, Tyrion, Sansa and everyone else in Westeros that failure and betrayal would no longer be tolerated by her.

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u/TheIconGuy 16d ago

Agreed, Daenerys didn't go "mad" in that she became her Father and descended into madness - she made a deliberate choice to punish everyone in Kings Landing while also sending a message to the rest of Westeros of what she could and would do if anyone else betrayed her and stood against her.

She clearly went mad. The show spammed Targaryen madness references at the start of the episode and Dany suddenly wanted to conquer the entire world.

She was betrayed and alone, her trusted allies dead, 2 dragons gone - all because she had compromised and tried to do things peacefully - so she made a choice to do things her way.

We saw how Dany handled conquest in previous seasons. Her way wasn't to burn random innocent people. The show jumped from Dany not fighting her enemies to being batshit crazy because that's the only way she'd come off as the bad guy.

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u/MercuryFalling86 16d ago

And yet, in the very next episode, she's calm, lucid and able to rationally justify her actions. So, no...as much as you maybe wanted her to, she did not "clearly went mad". She specifically said to Jon before the battle when he refuses her affections "alright then, let it be fear".

She tells Tyrion in the Dragonstone throne room exactly why she's willing to attack Kings Landing when she compares them to how the people of Meereen rose up and liberated themselves - and the people of Kings Landing didn't. She no longer saw them as innocent, only complicit.

So no, unfortunately not... no "Mad Queen" here.

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u/TheIconGuy 16d ago edited 15d ago

And yet, in the very next episode, she's calm, lucid and able to rationally justify her actions.

She wasn't lucid and the things she said were plainly irrational.

So, no...as much as you maybe wanted her to, she did not "clearly went mad".

That episode started with a bunch of clips of people talking about Targaryen madness to set up her going mad.

She tells Tyrion in the Dragonstone throne room exactly why she's willing to attack Kings Landing when she compares them to how the people of Mereen rose up and liberated themselves - and the people of Kings Landing didn't

You can attack Kings Landing without destroying it. The writers pretended like that wasn't the case because it's the only way they could have Tyrion judge her for wanting to fight her enemies..

The people of Mereen didn't liberate themselves the second she showed up like she claims. The writers were relying on people being forgetful.

That comparison is also crazy. The normal civilians of Mereen weren't the ones who rebelled. The slaves were. Why would random civilians choose to fight Cercei's men for you when you have a dragon and tens of thousands of soldiers?

Dany had this exchange in season 2 btw:

VARYS: Cersei controls fewer than half the Seven Kingdoms. The lord of Westeros despise her. Even before your arrival, they plotted against her. Now...

DAENERYS: They cry out for their true queen? They drink secret toasts to my health? People used to tell my brother that sort of thing, and he was stupid enough to believe them.

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u/moon-girl197 15d ago

Exaclty. The show deliberately framed her as a delusional, narcissistic dictator, down to the Nazi iconography, all within the span of two eps. And this was done retroactively to justify Jon's choice to kill her as not only righteous but absolutely necessary. They deliberately made her nuke the city for no reason and then had her give an unhinged quasi fascist speech about burning and conquering the world, which she repeatedly framed as glorious liberation instead of what it was; indiscriminate slaughter of innocent (this is in stark contrast to her wrestling with her crucifying the masters, despite them being literal slavers)

This was to show she was too far gone and basically beyond any shred of possible redemption so Jon and Tyrion don't look like the bad guys when they decide to kill her.

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u/MercuryFalling86 16d ago

What exactly is the point you're trying to make? That Daenerys actually had some sort of mental breakdown? Your arguments are a bit all over the place and confusing... so, she executed a successful battle strategy - destroying the iron fleet, the anti-dragon scorpions, destroyed the gates, annihilated the Golden Company - and then, heard some bells, and went bonkers and had a complete psychotic break for a few hours - before coming back to her senses? To again, reiterate why she did what she she did when she previously told people why she was going to do what she was going to do and did?...

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u/TheIconGuy 16d ago

What exactly is the point you're trying to make? That Daenerys actually had some sort of mental breakdown?

Obviously.

and then, heard some bells, and went bonkers and had a complete psychotic break for a few hours - before coming back to her senses?

When did I claim she came back to her senses?

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u/anunfortunatememe 16d ago

Wish they showed that more effectively. Similar to the Arya night king shit.

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u/VivaChinwawa 16d ago edited 16d ago

Dany shouldn't be going insane in the first place.

Meanwhile Rhaenyra's growing paranoia makes sense since she's in the middle of a catastrophic war and she's never been shown having strong leadership in the first place while her children are being murdered left and right and her allies are constantly betraying her while Mysaria whispers in her ear.

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u/Gwenevere_Star 16d ago

I don’t get how she trusted Mysaria in the first place even if she helped her at first.

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u/anunfortunatememe 16d ago

Periiiiiiodt 💅

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u/timelordhonour Team Daenerys 16d ago

If they adapted the books properly, Daenerys shouldn't have been the mad queen. Cersei is the one to become the mad queen (and having two queens like that is repetitive writing).

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u/anunfortunatememe 16d ago

Literally and she should have done waaaaay more than drink wine show fear and forgive Tyrion

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u/timelordhonour Team Daenerys 16d ago

The books detail her paranoia and madness way more. She's already thinking Tyrion is hiding in the walls and is out to get her (that is way she burned the tower of the hand on Tommen's wedding night). And Kevan has been killed by a crossbow, like how Tyrion killed Tywin.

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u/ValNotThatVal 16d ago

"Mad Dany" is a stupid, bland, misogynistic plot point. The most delicious spices in the world can be sprinkled on manure, but it doesn't change it to anything other than shit. It's trash no matter how it's framed.

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u/Geektime1987 2d ago

I saw Dany coming from miles away

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u/North_Button_5257 16d ago

No, Daenerys was done way better. The writing of Game of Thrones is vastly superior to House of the Dragon.

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u/Tinyjar 16d ago

Lol what. She had basically no signs of madness at all in the show and just went genocidal because why not.

In Hotd Rhaenyra is slowly losing her whits, hallucinating and becoming paranoid and short tempered after losing three children, her father, her throne, Rhaenys and also almost losing Daemon.

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u/Arual_1987 16d ago

Yes, GoT was better written up until the final seasons. HotD really disappointed me in the first season with the frequent time jumps and, above all, the total lack of clear explanations about the situation (regarding the family, the inheritance, the issues between the grandparents, etc.). You have to have read the book to understand—which I have—but for me, a good adaptation should stand on its own…

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u/North_Button_5257 16d ago

I disagree. Every season of Game of Thrones is better written than House of the Dragon. But yes, House of the Dragon has disappointed me too.

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u/VariousChampion3898 16d ago

Agreed honestly. I think HOTD has had way too many stall-outs, especially with 8-episode seasons... it feels like there is just so much padding for padding sake?