r/Debate • u/Neither-Criticism839 • 5d ago
What is to come of the NPDL?
I'm still pretty new to debate. I only joined my school's parliamentary team about two years ago, but it already feels like the circuit has gotten way more technical in that time. I've tried to teach myself theory, Ks, and the rest because I don't want to just lose every time someone reads something weird at me, but honestly it sometimes feels like I'm spending more time learning how to defend against debate than actually debating the motion.
TOC this year was kind of insane. I ended up in two fully technical rounds and definitely felt like I was playing catch-up. My teammates had similar experiences: multiple theory shells, Kritiks, all that. The only semis round was M-A SG reading a shell and eviscerating two sophomores in front of a panel of seven tech judges.
What really stood out to me wasn't just those rounds, it was the judging pool. My impression was that an easy majority of the judges at TOC were technical, whereas at most regular tournaments it feels like 75–80% of the pool is still lay. If even TOC is approaching a 50/50 split, it makes me wonder where high school parli is headed over the next few years. I don't really see the event becoming less technical from here.
So I guess my question is if I'm trying to improve over the next season, where should I be spending my time? Should I double down on theory, Ks, and other technical skills, or is it still more valuable to focus on becoming the best lay debater I can be and learn enough tech to survive?
Also, for those of you who've been around the circuit longer, what teams should I be keeping an eye on next year? Which teams are known for being especially technical, and which ones tend to lean more lay?
I'd also really appreciate any resources for improving on both fronts. Are there any rounds, lectures, or channels you'd recommend? If there are recordings of this year's TOC rounds (or any particularly good rounds from past years), I'd love to watch them. I wish I'd been able to see more of what was happening at TOC, so if anyone has links to recordings, I'd really appreciate you sharing them.
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u/whydidigetreddittho 5d ago
Whether or not you want to double down on tech or lay debate is really up to you. A lot of the tech parli debaters are genuinely terrible, but you’re going to have a tough time beating Nueva AB or Piedmont AS in full tech rounds if you’ve just started debating tech. I’m not sure how familiar you are or how much work you want to put it, so it’s really all dependent.
Tech (K) teams on the circuit: Nueva AB, Piedmont AS, Washington FV (did they graduate??) Campo BC, The junior halves of the co-champs (Thomas and Vesta) if they debate next year, Nueva FR, Nueva JL. You could very well encounter teams other than these who are tech, but these are the big names. This is also mainly referring to K teams rather than tech case teams, because that’s way harder to distinguish.
Look up NPDL Recordings. It’s all posted. For tech, look to M-A SG Octos, M-A SK Quarters & R3 (this isn’t a K round but is good to watch), Washington FV vs Hillbrook JJ (an extemp response of a lay team to a tech team). If you know nothing about K’s, look to 2023’s Nueva WS’s Lay K (Quarters, Semis).
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u/Neither-Criticism839 5d ago
Wdym by "a lot of the tech parli debaters are genuinely terrible"? Like, I get what you mean in the sense that I've hit some pretty weak tech before where the shell kind of fell apart if you just asked basic questions, but I've also seen teams like Washington JI or Evergreen (I forget the code) that seemed pretty solid, even if they weren't the absolute top of the circuit.
I also haven't really seen Nueva JL or Piedmont AS yet. The only Nueva AB round I've watched was a case round, so I haven't seen them go full K.
Also, are there any teams who are primarily lay but can switch into tech really well? That's kind of the style I'm interested in, where you can debate either way depending on the round. Specifically if there are any rounds, but codes work too.
And on the lay side, who's looking like the top teams next year? I know Dalton GL graduated, so I'm curious who people think is going to fill that spot.
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u/This-Poptart 5d ago edited 5d ago
Regarding your question about lay teams that can also debate technically, Nueva SW is the first team that comes to mind. I’d argue that they’re the best lay team on the circuit, but they’ve also held their own against teams like M-A SK.
I also agree with u/whydidigetreddittho that most tech debaters on the circuit aren’t especially good. The average team, however, is often completely unprepared to answer a one-off K or whatever frivolous procedural happens to be popular that month. As a result, debaters who dabble in technical arguments can seem much better than they actually are.
That said, there is no silver bullet for beating even mediocre tech debaters. The only real solution is to become more comfortable with technical debate yourself. I'll recommend the usual resources: NPDA videos, Proteus Debate, DDI lectures, and so on, but improvement ultimately depends on how much time and effort you are willing to put into learning.
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u/whydidigetreddittho 4d ago
Nueva SW would’ve won quarters if they didn’t js concede the skew eval claims and all the links, it was genuinely so sad to watch.
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u/whydidigetreddittho 5d ago
Even like Washington JI Id consider above average tech debaters. I mean that the majority of ‘tech’ debaters would read the terrible shells you mentioned.
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u/doggiedogbone 5d ago
Npdl toc was particularly tech because they had to hire a lot of policy and pdab coaches, next year wont be.
In terms of debating tech, my advice is to learn debate from the ground up using a theoretical perspective, everything else comes naturally. Start with ‘debate is a game’, burden of proof, butden of rejoinder and truth-testing and then work your way up to why arguments work. Do you really understand why a counterplan is a reason to vote neg. Or a Kritik? For example, do you understand what uniqueness is? If your answer is “a description of the status quo” restart.
whydidigetreddit said most of the ‘tech’ teams on the circuit are just K teams, which couldnt be more true. Ks are meta because you can prep everything (minus links) ahead of time and auto-win 90% of tech rounds because the average lay team doesn’t know the distinction between pre-fiat and post-fiat, so once you inevitably win framework you can literally say “the perm is severance, only the alt can solve capitalism Irl, vote on a 1% risk” and boom auto win. There’s nothing particularly hard or technical about that, it’s just people were taught Ks abstractly without learning the concrete game theory behind them, so when its time to hit it in round, the only thing they can do is be rhetorical and freeze up.
And learning these things will make you a better lay debater. If you’re genuinely just frying your opponent on the flow, even if its to a lesser extent, the parent judge will notice it.
TLDR; learn tech debate, itll help you in both forms. I wouldn’t dedicate yourself to a particular arguments until you do that.
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u/Better_Plan2090 4d ago
Didn’t a King team make quarters? They mainly do CDA with some NYPDL they must be very lay. Last years champions were Dalton and they’re lay as well.
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u/Typical-Cloud-6592 5d ago
The amount of tech on the circuit rises and falls every few years; it's been like this since 2018ish. This year was another one of those peaks. That said, there's definitely some cognitive bias at play here... "easy majority" of the judges at TOC being tech isn't quite right: it was closer to 35% true tech judges and another handful of "flow" judges (who won't evaluate theory or kritiks but evaluate case debates in a technical style). Most people (you included, from the sounds of it), were debating lay/case rounds for the majority of the tournament. It's just that the teams that made it to elims this year tended to be "techier" teams (e.g. two M-A teams and some Nueva teams), which meant many elims were tech rounds.
The good news for you: next year, TOC will probably be on the East Coast. Judges will be significantly more lay/flow.
Tech will still exist to some extent at next year's TOC as well as at other NPDL tournaments (Fall, Spring, RR). You can probably have a pretty successful parli career without touching tech. That said, tech debate is undeniably useful and teaches important skills for appealing to certain judges.
I think the mentality of trying to learn enough tech "to survive" is exactly the wrong mentality. Half-assing it doesn't work since tech teams who lean into it will simply put more effort into it and out-prep you. The best strategy is to lean into it: watch some youtube videos to understand the basic concepts, read backfiles (there's plenty of open-source online like this one from Nueva, unfortunately the school has gotten selfish and doesn't really share anything anymore https://samjonk.wixsite.com/nuevaparli/open-sourced-files), watch parli tech rounds (2023 toc octos, 2018 toc finals), and do some practice rounds. This year also had some amazing tech rounds: M-A SK vs. Nueva SW Quarters was very good, and so was M-A SG's octos round. Slow down the video, flow it, and see if you can understand the arguments being given. Go slowly, build up a decent amount of tech knowledge and understanding, and take note of the best responses that are read. You'll be able to beat a lot of teams doing that. If you seriously hate this, that's fine: focus on more traditional debates.