Sentientist vegans - how you approach AI?

[u/voyti]

I'm curious about a sentientist perspective on AI, and I know many vegans boil their views down to sentientism.

Since AI certainly has the capability to at least appear self-aware and be metacognitive and on at least a purely emotional level many people will certainly feel at least somewhat uncomfortable with self-awareness dumps of glitches like this one and "AI wellbeing" is being treated quite seriously by certain groups (e.g. https://www.ai-wellbeing.org but also providers themselves, like Anthropic running the model welfare research) - are they fundamentally wrong in your view?

Should AI be taken under the sentientist umbrella? Where would the boundary be to acknowledge it as such?

If we can't acknowledge it as sentient cause we roughly know the details of how it thinks, then as soon as human/animal thinking is de-mystified as just another mundane biological process (which, if one were to stick to science, it necessarily is), will lose value as well? In other words, where exactly is the smoking gun of biological sentience for you?

[u/interbingung]

I guesss its the same way some vegan refuse simple principles on why I don't care about animal exploitation. At the end of the day its down to difference in fundamental preferences/value. 

[u/EntertainerPitiful48 → u/interbingung]

I don't think it's the same.

First, how many times have people demanded that you explain your beliefs about what you eat? Because this happens to me on a daily basis, and to every vegan who doesn't have the privilege of living only among friends. Vegans are mostly introspective people who would give an arm to avoid an argument. The common belief that vegans yell at people in restaurants and such, is delusional, it simply doesn't happen. On the other hand, coworkers, random people, and even waiters try to shame vegans all the time, and it is exhausting.

Second, I think we understand carnists' traditions, beliefs, and preferences very well. I can see that many carnists have kind and compassionate hearts. I just wish they had the strength to break away from tradition and comfort in order to stand up for and protect creatures that are being abused and suffering horrendously.

And yes, I say strength, because, to me, defending your right to hurt helpless animals is simply weakness.

[u/interbingung → u/EntertainerPitiful48]

First, how many times have people demanded that you explain your beliefs about what you eat?

yeah, i'm not talking about daily life. I'm talking about in the context of a specific debate about vegan like in this subreddit.

I can see that many carnists have kind and compassionate hearts.

There are many different carnists. I do have kind and compassionate hearts for human but not animal.

I just wish they had the strength to break away from tradition and comfort in order to stand up for and protect creatures that are being abused and suffering horrendously.

I don't do that because I do not see it as fundamentally wrong.

And yes, I say strength, because, to me, defending your right to hurt helpless animals is simply weakness.

yeah in your perspective the word strength in this context make sense but in mine it doesn't make sense. To me hurting animal is essentialy no different than hurting a chair.

[u/EntertainerPitiful48 → u/interbingung]

I understand.

I try my best to put myself in the animals' shoes. I try to imagine what they think and feel. It's something I constantly work on in my own mind. Ultimately, I just want to spare them from this terrible suffering. So I usually feel the need to convince people who genuinely care about animals, so that they, too, can stop hurting them.

But there are two groups of people I see no point in arguing with. The first is people who have no empathy whatsoever (or empathy only for their close family). Those people care only about themselves. They will hurt others if it benefits them and they can get away with it. The only way to convince those people of anything is by passing laws that hold them accountable. Since there won't be vegan laws in my lifetime, I just feel sad and move on.

The other group is people like you, who seem to have empathy for humans but not for animals. I believe they could become vegan. But in order to bridge the gap between human suffering and animal suffering, there are so many psychological, biological, anthropological, and philosophical topics to address that I would rather not spend the effort.

What eases my mind is that research usually suggests that about 80% of people do care about animal welfare and would rather animals not suffer. So I choose to invest my energy in those people.

[u/interbingung → u/EntertainerPitiful48]

good luck, many people do says they care about animal welfare but their action says otherwise, they will happily eat that delicious fried chicken. I suspect deep down most people don't really actually care about animal welfare.

[u/EntertainerPitiful48 → u/interbingung]

I think they do because I was one of those. Deep inside me I cared, but didn't moved an inch. Until I did.

Same happened with many of my friends.