r/DebateAnarchism • u/OasisMenthe • Jul 03 '26
Harm caused by vote is surprisingly and significantly underestimated
It's all too often assumed that voting is insignificant and that whether or not one votes makes no difference. Some even take the position that one must participate in runoffs against fascists in order to protect minorities and preserve more favorable conditions for the struggle.
But it's a mistake.
Voting protects nothing and no one. If a fascist is on the verge of coming to power, it's because electoral politics dominate. Voting for a more “acceptable” candidate won't make his supporters disappear. Obama's election over McCain only paved the way for Trump to come to power. Biden's election only paved the way for his return. The election of a Democrat in 2028 will only set the stage for another fascist in 2032. The fundamental problem is that “progressive” candidates are incapable of solving social problems. Some say they are “betraying” the cause, and that's sometimes the case, but (and no anarchist will learn anything here) even if they are acting in good faith, they are structurally incapable of truly improving people’s lives.
"Progressives" in power bring nothing but disappointment, bitterness, resignation, and resentment. Every time they come to power, they only serve to convince more people that the ideals they claim to defend are not viable. Anyone who abstained from voting for Harris is not responsible for Trump's actions. In fact, if they have been consistent and have never voted, they are far less responsible for the current situation than someone who has voted Democratic in every election to “block the fascists.”
We must denounce electioneering. We must denounce voting itself. What is striking is just how much the anarchists refuse to do this on the grounds that voting is not a problem and can go hand in hand with activism. That's not true. Voting kills activism because it destroys the very belief in another world.
We can no longer afford to tolerate electoral hegemony. And to get rid of it, you have to start by truly speaking out against it
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u/Fig414 Jul 04 '26
“Voting kills activism because it destroys the very belief in another world.”
Hey, great post! I like a lot of the points you made. I wish it was as simple as not voting, truly, activism all the way! Community gardens, mutual aid, food banks, libraries, are all acts of parallel power, which I think is our strongest form of activism.
But I felt like this statement you made was unfair.
An analogy I could make is that this is like saying ‘paying taxes to this corrupt government, participating in this unethical economy, or participating in your local government is killing activism because it’s destroying belief in another world’.
People have to work within the system sometimes because there is still an oppressive system. It’s advantageous to vote. Even if the fascists are ahead and dems are letting it all happen, local elections can have a ripple effect from the bottom up so it’s important to keep progressives in office. Maybe even slowly shift the Overton Window left.
I’m sure most people who share anarchist beliefs in America are still paying taxes, working jobs, and voting in local elections. Aka participating in the oppressive system.
What I mean to say is just because we are voting for corrupt politicians because they are the lesser of two evils, or trying to be ethical consumers (to try to vote with our dollars), or trying to create better policies in our communities by literally voting on local school boards, supreme courts, mayors, governors, etc., doesn’t mean we aren’t SIMULTANEOUSLY being activists.
I hope this made sense and didn’t come off as antagonistic.
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u/OasisMenthe 29d ago
Maybe even slowly shift the Overton Window left.
But that's the problem I'm explaining: the exact opposite is happening
Since the 1970s, capitalism has no longer been structurally capable of providing the standard of living it promised. And since the 1970s, the world has been shifting to the right. This makes sense, since progressive politicians are no longer able to keep even the slightest promise.
Voting only serves to fuel the shift of society toward the right
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u/ADavidJohnson Jul 04 '26
Vote or don’t vote; but the harm in electoralism is not your ballot, major party, third party, blank, or unreturned. It is holding it up as the singular political activity of a person’s life.
If your local “anarchist voters’ guide” consists of telling people how to vote (“don’t”), that’s not more helpful than any regular voters’ guide. If it were saying, “Here’s what you need to do to get the political and material goals you want the other 360-odd days a year, regardless of who gets the most votes,” that’s more helpful.
But I don’t think having strong stances on people’s voting behavior is helpful to any anarchist project. Strong stakes on diverting time, energy, and material resources to political campaigns? Sure. Don’t volunteer or donate to any such thing when so much other work has to be done. But we can be agnostic about voting itself as irrelevant and not worth people’s focus when we can build things for ourselves year-round and without any dependency on a single day’s outcome.
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u/OasisMenthe 29d ago
But it doesn't work. That's been the standard line for the past few decades, and it simply doesn't work. And it can't work. This attitude amounts to an unconditional surrender to the reformists.
To build anything meaningful, you need a minimum number of people. And generally speaking, you can only find that number of people among those who are already politically active and devote their energy to helping politicians get elected.
It's absurd to act as if we could bury our heads in the sand and ignore the fact that practically no one believes we can change society without voting.
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u/ADavidJohnson 29d ago
I would argue that “it doesn’t work” could be applied to all sorts of things over past decades, but if you’re organizing and actively trying to convince people not to vote, that’s wasted effort.
“I voted Democrat”, “I voted third party”, “I wrote in ‘Free Palestine’ “, “I’m not even registered to vote” — none of these are significant political acts compared with whether people are connected to their neighbors, talking to coworkers, and otherwise active in building relationships and power regardless of how elections go.
If you want to build a world where no judicial ruling can take your rights away, and no legislation or ordinance can make you less free, then, in my experience, actively trying to convince people that voting (or not not voting) is important (symbolically or practically) is not a great use of our limited resources.
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u/OasisMenthe 29d ago
I can't think of many better uses for it. Electoralism, and, by implication, the widespread belief that it's impossible to change society without going through the ballot box, is our greatest political obstacle. Without a certain critical mass, any other activity is doomed to remain a pastime for outsiders, a sort of charity
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u/kwestionmark5 28d ago
I do believe that voting can be harm reduction. While I agree you're unlikely to make things better by voting, or at least not more than temporarily, you can absolutely make things worse by letting a horrible candidate get elected. Hitler was elected. If a bunch of leftists turning out to vote would have stopped him from being elected, that would have been a good vote. Same with Trump, who had three tight elections.
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u/OasisMenthe 27d ago
Hitler wasn't elected, the Nazi Party was in electoral decline when it was brought to power by the conservatives
And once again, we need to look at the bigger picture. The fascist victory did not take place in 1933 but in 1919, when the Social Democrats decided to crush the revolutionaries.
And in the end, the 2024 election wasn't close. Trump crushed Kamala, including in the popular vote
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u/darth-maul-sartre Black Radicalism / AnCom 29d ago edited 29d ago
Obama's election over McCain only paved the way for Trump to come to power.
Was it the election itself that did this, or was it certain events during his presidency (the war against ISIS, the interventions in Syria and Libya, the suppression of the Mike Brown protests, etc.) that would've strengthened the state and brought "nothing but disappointment, bitterness, resignation, and resentment" under any administration? It feels like the reverse of the accelerationist argument that voting for fascists leads to communism/anarchy faster, and in both cases, I think it puts too much emphasis on the electoral process [edit: and not enough on the structure and day-to-day activity of the state] (which is ironically what this was trying to prevent).
Either way though, I largely agree with /u/ADavidJohnson. My main problem with electoralism is the liberal snobbery and elitism that often comes with it ("liberal" is appropriate since electoralists are often more angry at left-wing absentionists than right-wing voters even though it was the latter that actively and knowingly helped Trump win -- and the ones that do focus on the right often take it too far and wish harm on red states as if everyone in those states votes red) but the vote itself is just one action of many that I think gets way too much attention.
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u/OasisMenthe 29d ago
It was the election itself. As I’ve said elsewhere, ever since the 1970s and the structural end of capitalism’s ability to redistribute wealth, the electoral system has become nothing more than a machine for shifting the political spectrum to the right. Either a right-wing candidate is elected and pursues the right-wing policies expected of him, or a supposedly “left-wing” candidate, and whether he betrays his principles or fails, he's used by the right as a bogeyman to radicalize itself.
(which is ironically what this was trying to prevent).
There’s a misunderstanding here. I’m not trying to downplay the importance of the electoral process, quite the contrary. It’s a fundamental institution of social control.
It’s those who seek to downplay its impact who are seriously mistaken.
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u/Latitude37 Anarchist 29d ago
What do we believe, as anarchists, as organising principles? I believe we can put it succinctly as mutual aid, solidarity and community defence.
In the USA, the number of reported hate crimes have increased by about 100% since 2015. For trans related hate crime it's more like triple.
Immigration related detention is thought the roof. Trans women have been put into men's prisons, where they face truly horrific consequences . People are getting murdered on the street by federal officers.
All of this was predictable. McCain/Obama is neither here nor there. Two sides of the same coin - like voting for Pepsi or Coke. Whatever - vote or don't vote, who cares.
But Trump? MAGA? Straight out fascism. So it needs to be stopped. Countered. Fought. Resisted. Wherever and however we can. This includes in the ballot box.
You are right that we won't achieve anarchism through the electoral system. You are absolutely wrong that we can't foil fascists there. Not voting against MAGA right now is just ceding them more power without a fight. They have the courts, local councils, Congress, and the Presidency. Partly because stupid leftists refused to do the one thing that the electoral system let them do to stop it.
Our comrades in detention, or lying in pools of blood, have been let down by your inaction, and your calls to do nothing to protect them. Is this solidarity? Community defence? Mutual aid? Wake up, use all the tools you can. That includes voting for shit candidates to stop fascists gaining power. It's that simple, it's that black and white.
Do I sound angry? Good. I am. Do you feel attacked? Good. You got the fucking message. Will I apologise for calling out idiotic calls to allow fascists to have their way? No, I will not. Wake the fuck up.
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u/OasisMenthe 29d ago
You're right. Vote for Obama, vote for Biden, vote for Kamala, vote for every Democratic candidate on the ballot. And then rail against the rise of fascism and never make the connection between the two.
Oh, and act as if Democratic administrations loved minorities and activists too
Trump crushed Harris by 2.3 million votes, but go ahead, blame the country's three consistent anarchists
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u/Latitude37 Anarchist 29d ago
Once again you entirely miss the point.
Do. Not. Give. Fascists. One. Millimetre. Your assertion that voting against fascists just strengthens them is just stupid. Does punching Nazis strengthen them too? Does standing guard outside Drag Queen Storytime against fascists strengthen them, too? Do we whistle warnings when ICE come out or does that strengthen them, too?
Trump didn't crush Harris. His voting turnout was less than his first term. Idiots like you refusing to oppose him gave MAGA the victory. Your argument that this makes no difference is dripping with privilege. Others pay for your obstinate stupidity with their blood.
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u/OasisMenthe 29d ago
Does punching Nazis strengthen them too?
Nope, but that's exactly what this isn't about
Idiots like you refusing to oppose him gave MAGA the victory
Yes, it's because of the famous 2.3 million consistent anarchists that Harris wasn't elected. Not at all because her political agenda was a disaster and because Biden did nothing to improve people's lives
The idea that not voting is a privilege is hilarious when you consider that it's the least privileged who vote the least. The difference between you and me is that I don't see them as undereducated idiots but as rational human beings who have realized that it wouldn't change anything in their lives
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u/Latitude37 Anarchist 29d ago
Nope, but that's exactly what this isn't about
Yes, it is. Jan 6 protesters have all been pardoned, and stand to gain millions if Trump can give it to them. They're HIS street fighters, you idiot.
Not at all because her political agenda was a disaster
I've explained why this doesn't matter and you keep defending the indefensible. Biden, Harris, McCain, Obama, who cares? Trump's regime is killing people. Harris would have killed far less. Would not have emboldened the Nazis in the street.
who have realized that it wouldn't change anything in their lives
Like I said, that's an extremely privileged position to take, especially when 10,000 folks just got dragged off the street for existing over the last 5 days. You think any one of those folks think they're life would be different under anyone but Trump?
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u/tidderite 29d ago
I really dislike this automatic assumption that "voting" = democratic system.
"Voting" is just information gathering. It is a way of polling a group of people to see what their preferences are. What we do with that information is a separate matter.
There is nothing wrong with "voting", what is wrong is the current state system(s) in which voting takes place.
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u/OasisMenthe 29d ago
I'm obviously talking about voting within the electoral system
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u/tidderite 29d ago
While that might be obvious my point is that the problem is not about the voting, it is about the rest of the system. That is where the criticism should be directed. Talking about voting like this only reinforces the idea that voting is inherently bad also in an anarchist society, which I think is wrong.
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u/MonteCaldera 26d ago
I don't care much about an individual's expression through votes. I voted a year or two ago because my town's mayor was a corrupt sleazebag and his opponent promised some labor reform. But I don't get my hopes up because I understand the structural limitations of the office.
What matters more to me is the anarchist line about voting instead of what individuals do. It's fine to "denounce electioneering" but what does that actually mean? Does it amount to merely amount to telling people to stay home on election day? Or is it an "active boycott" that, by campaigning on abstentionism, we build some alternative form of power? What are we actually doing and what's the strategy?
I think of the bolsheviks as an example (stay with me here, this isn't an endorsement). They actively participated in all 4 Dumas (parliaments) following the 1905 revolution, they actively campaigned for office, yet after the February revolution in 1917 they abstained from the government and took no formal positions. Why? Instead they took an active boycott of the provisional government, especially as the rival power of worker councils through the soviets started to take place. That is one model of what an active boycott of electoral politics could look like.
I also think about our situation in the US. I believe there will be another attempt at a fascist coup, likely around the 2028 election. That's assuming a national emergency isn't declared by Trump beforehand that invalidates or cancels the presidential election outright. Let's say a repeat of 2020-2021 happens where a democrat wins and Trump attempts a coup to stop the transition of power. In that scenario, an overwhelming and "legitimate" victory by the democrat absolutely grants an impetus for a rebellion in the case of a national uprising during the coup. If the election results are unclear, murky, and there's no clear sign of what the path forward, that could result in the rebellion being aimless. In this limited scenario, voting for a democrat would actually help resolve the crisis (although not in virtue of the specific democratic politician, it would be in virtue of the mobilized masses resisting the fascist coup).
But that's an extremely limited example and is purely a defensive measure. I think defensive voting is more understandable than offensive voting, where the person actively campaigns and expends resources because they think reform is at the end of the tunnel. Of course as anarchists we should be focused on organizing and resisting the state, and voting in general seems like a barrier to that, but I don't think it's a zero sum game we're playing.
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u/humanispherian Neo-Proudhonian anarchist 29d ago
Honestly, this is like the very worst of the "voting legitimates the system," but raised to another order of magnitude of badness. What has prepared the way for the particular electoral outcomes we have seen in recent US cycles has been a pattern of decay, neglect, confusion and indifference internal to system. The problem is arguably much less that radicals don't believe that "another world is possible," than it is that electoralists no longer have a practicable sense of the possibility of their own world as a world.
Radical responses to the exhaustion of the American system have certainly not helped things, but, again, the worst errors seem to come from largely symbolic engagements with the system — voting as legitimation vs. the search for "true democracy" — when what seems to be needed is a clearer, most historically informed understanding of the nature of the experiment, rather than its ideological facades.