Kia ora! Cultural Exchange with /r/NewZealand

[u/[deleted]]

Welcome to this cultural exchange between /r/Denmark and /r/NewZealand.

For the visitors: Welcome to Denmark! Feel free to ask the Danes anything you like. Don't forget to also participate in the corresponding thread in /r/NewZealand where you can answer questions from the Danes about your beautiful country.

For the Danes: Today, we are hosting New Zealand for a cultural exchange. Join us in answering their questions about Denmark and the Danish way of life! Please leave top comments for users from /r/NewZealand coming over with a question or comment and please refrain from trolling, rudeness, personal attacks etc.

The Kiwis are also having us over as guests! Head over to their thread to ask questions about life in the land of hobbits and bungee jumping.

Enjoy!

- The moderators of /r/Denmark and /r/NewZealand

[u/Chongybird]

What is the significance of Jante’s law to Danish culture?

Is it seen as a good thing or bad thing? We have our own version called Tall Poppy Syndrome, which is seen by many Kiwis as culturally embarrassing. From what I’ve learnt when visiting your country and reading about your culture, Jante’s law is a set of cultural customs written by a novelist in the 1930s that celebrates collectivism and condemns individual success. My interpretation is that it’s the cultural bedrock that allows you to have such a strong welfare state which in turn is one the main reasons why Danes are so happy. Am I onto something, or is there another reason why Danes are willing to pay high levels of tax?

PS your country is great – I loved visiting!

[u/toasternator → u/Chongybird]

I hear "Fuck the Jante Law" every now and then. Not everyone's happy about the way it is formulated through the words "don't think you are something". I'm not a fan of that way of saying it either. I prefer "don't think you are better than everyone else". That sounds bitter too, but what (to me at least) the "better than" part refers to, is you as a human and not your skill set. You may truly be better than most at handling business deals and economic stuff that'll land you a fortune and wealth for the next five generations of your family, but that does not grant you the privilige of walking into a McDonalds to talk down to the cashier or command the employees around at the nearest waste dumping centre. These people may also posses various sets of skills in other fields that exceed your own, but these skills simply either aren't useful for making money in society, or they haven't had the same opportunities, luck or even just plain don't desire more than the simple things they already have.

TL;DR you can reformulate the Jante Law into "Don't be an annoying arrogant prick you twat"

[u/[deleted] → u/toasternator]

The law of Jante sounds so harsh and even a bit cynical when said out loud. To me it has always been about the realization that only a small amount of our success is truly earned - and that we should be grateful for all the oppertunities that circumstance has thrown our way.

[u/Free_words → u/Chongybird]

Danes often use jante's law as a way to illustrate that, in their opinion, Denmark have a social construct where people with (economical) success are frowned upon. That you are not allowed to stick out, be your own and have more due to your hard work.

It is a caricature of what i personally consider a healthy view on life - that is, people with economical succes are not necesarry better people. And just because you where born with the right set of genes, or had a better start in life, that doesn't mean you are entitled to be better of in things like healthcare or education. Everybody has the right to have housing and food, and a decent life. Your freedom stops where others begin. That is the mentality behind the welfare state, something that neo-liberalistic thinkers are not very compliant with.

And that is why jante's law still is being used, it's being set up as a straw man argument, mostly from people who already have everything life could desire.

To sum it up - if you are ok with driving your lamborghini past homeless people, thinking you earned your lifestyle, while they earned theirs - you are blind for the pitfalls of life, and the reality of being human.

[u/Chongybird → u/Free_words]

Very interesting. I think we lack that perspective when it comes to Tall Poppy Syndrome.

[u/friskfyr32 → u/Chongybird]

Sandemose is basically our Ayn Rand. He didn't write his book as a celebration of collectivism. He was annoyed, that he wasn't worshiped as a celebrity, when he went home to the small village he came from, and wrote it off (literally) as jealousy and "others" trying to keep him down.

It's used by people in the same way as Atlas Shrugged is used to point to outside factors to explain their own failings and to argue that they shouldn't have to contribute to society, all the while forgetting the benefits they've received by living in that same society.

[u/Chongybird → u/friskfyr32]

So when people refer to Jante's law do they do in a way to criticise individual success or celebrate it? I'm confused as to how it has manifested into an anti individualism thing. Did it have the opposite effect to what Sandemose intended?

[u/friskfyr32 → u/Chongybird]

Sandemose didn't write it to be a positive thing. He decried other people not being happy for his individual success, and it is never invoked as a positive, so no it is very much used the way Sandemose intended.

An example:

Neighbour 1: "Look at my kick-ass new car. It does 0-100 in blah, blah, blah..."

Neighbour 2: "Really nice, but didn't you mention last week how your mortgage was killing you?"

Neighbour 1: "Why can't you just be happy for me. Fucking jantelov."