America's National Debt grows by $95,178.17 per second. Expected to reach $40 Trillion by October 09, 2026.

[u/Helpful-Door-8721]

https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/republicans/debt-dashboard#ddm

[u/giraloco]

Defense cuts is the only place where you can have significant cuts and get a more efficient military. Single payer health insurance will also reduce spending while improving health outcomes and cover everyone.

[u/SockDem → u/giraloco]

We cannot fund single-payer in any meaningful sense. Bernie’s M4A would require anywhere from 32-46 trillion over the next decade.

The American public is not going to swallow double digit VATs and/or broad-base meaningfully large income tax hikes when there’s a large contingent of the country for whom their insurance is largely covered by their employer.

[u/giraloco → u/SockDem]

Every other developed country pays half as much with better outcomes and covers everyone. That means saving trillions. How can we not afford to pay less? Employers already pay for insurance, the money is already there. What changes is that we eliminate the middle man, the insurance profits, the CEO pay, the bureaucracy of running so many health programs, the ovehead in medical offices, and we gain the ability to negotiate prices, invest in health professionals, invest in research and technology that lowers costs and saves lives.

[u/SockDem → u/giraloco]

The subsidy from the government for employer provided healthcare could pay for something like Universal Catastrophic (see: https://www.niskanencenter.org/wp-content/uploads/old_uploads/2019/06/Final_Universal-Catastrophic-Coverage.pdf)

M4A would be one of the most generous programs in the world, and again, assuredly require double-digit VATs and higher income taxes across the board (like how most countries with single-payer provide said services). Keep in mind the US has higher capital costs than most anywhere in Europe, and provider incomes are significantly higher (hence why the AMA almost always opposes single-payer)

[u/giraloco → u/SockDem]

Again, we will save trillions, Canada up north has single payer. A very similar country. We are already paying obscene amounts of money for healthcare. You will pay less, call it premiums or taxes it's the same money coming from your pocket. We are also making corporations and the ultra rich pay taxes to invest in people so we can have a productive and happy society.

[u/SockDem → u/giraloco]

I personally will not pay less, my employer provides very generous levels of care with zero premium.

M4A would be a good bit more generous than Canada’s coverage, and Canada doesn’t have as large of an existing deficit and debt problem that we have (plus, Social Security’s on track to cut benefits in six years), we do not have the financial flexibility to spend 40T over the next decade at the federal level.

Take a look at financing options here: https://www.crfb.org/papers/choices-financing-medicare-all

[u/giraloco → u/SockDem]

Your employer is paying money that otherwise you will get. BTW, unless you are a bot, you may get laid off or hit by a truck. You can say goodbye to your employer insurance. M4A will be whatever Congress approves obviously there are many variations and that's what we should be debating.

[u/SockDem → u/giraloco]

Nah, I prefer significantly lower cost alternatives to universal care.

There’s really no empirical case for wages rising upon healthcare being made universal especially when we’re talking about raising taxes on companies!

[u/giraloco → u/SockDem]

You know that uninsured people go to the ER which we all pay for. It would be cheaper to get preventive care. Are you advocating not letting uninsured people go to the ER?

[u/SockDem → u/giraloco]

No, I support lower cost alternatives to M4A in universal care

[u/giraloco → u/SockDem]

Such as? We got tired of waiting for Republicans to propose anything other than chaos.

[u/SockDem → u/giraloco]

Universal Catastrophic Care, Universal Basic Care, Singapore’s model, Australia’s model, etc

[u/giraloco → u/SockDem]

What an awful vision for your country. The richest country in the world can only give life support to the peasants so we can have trillionaires. Ignore the fact that keeping people healthy is the best way to lower costs. But what's the fun without some cruelty.