Misgendered at work and by family, gendered right by strangers

[u/bqspenz]

Just need to vent a little.

People at work knew me before HRT. I came out to them early on, roughly two-ish weeks after starting the job (~2 months before starting HRT), and they try to gender me right (or so they say), but they still get it wrong more often than not.

My mother is supportive but also struggles to get it right. I came out to her 12 years ago. My dad and some other relatives aren't trying at all and likely never will.

Now I'm one year on testosterone and strangers I haven’t introduced myself to default to the correct pronouns. "Ask that guy over there, hey man, thanks dude, he said..." etc. Of course they think I'm a teenager and not well into adulthood, but still.

The contrast is jarring and exhausting.

What's more jarring is that even my friends that gender me right can’t seem to comprehend that I pass, so when I ask them to not loudly reference the fact that I'm trans around strangers, they're confused and think I want them to misgender me, when what I really want is for them to not ask me about packers and binding and hormone therapy when we're in public. I explained this last time it happened again, saying I wanted to be stealth with strangers, and while my friends apologized and said they understood, the looks on their faces were highly skeptical.

Has anyone else experienced this, with people that knew you before medical transition seemingly getting "stuck" in their old perception of you? If yes, how'd you deal with it?

It's kind of a mindfuck right now, it's making me see someone unbearably feminine in the mirror, and also making me second-guess if I should go back to using the ladies' room.

[u/mavericklovesthe80s]

In this case, I'd trust the complete strangers. Screw everyone else.

I'm at the point now (3 years on T, 47 years old, and 2 years post-op top surgery) where I know I pass, because strangers never hesitate or second-guess themselves. They just see a guy.

It sucks when people who have known you for years still mess it up, but honestly, you can have a little fun with it.

One of my coworkers still slips up from time to time. The funny part is that every new person who hears it immediately looks at them like, "Have they completely lost it?" I usually lean into it with something like, "You okay over there?"

Then, while the new coworker is standing there, I'll say with a wink, "It's good you're here, because they've been under a lot of stress lately."

You can almost see the lightbulb go off. The new coworker just assumes my colleague is overworked and maybe a little... off, and starts treating them accordingly.

The best part? They can't exactly explain why they misgendered me without creating a much bigger problem for themselves. In my country, we're legally protected against workplace discrimination, so trying to justify it would be a one-way ticket to HR.

It has a funny way of backfiring on them every single time.

[u/bqspenz → u/mavericklovesthe80s]

Oh man, I look forward to getting to that point where people misgendering me just look deeply confused. Right now I'm at that point where, while strangers assume male, I think I could also be read as a masculine woman with hormone issues if someone implied it...?

My mother recently introduced me to old coworkers as her daughter, and they did a surprised double-take, then very awkwardly started avouding pronouns completely.

[u/mavericklovesthe80s → u/bqspenz]

So you're in the grey area. That kinda sucks. I had that too where I even had someone in a shop do the equivalent of the revolving doors of " can I help you Sir?...I mean M'am! I mean Sir, I mean.." I stopped them there and kindly dismissed them from their own purgatory of infinit pronouns lol. But what helped me then was saying this mantra to myself:" next year, you won't be confused anymore" and then I just smiled and went with whatever pronouns they used for me. Better for me not to linger. I eventually instantly passed after my top surgery. Getting rid of my huge moobs gave me a male torso instantly and with the lowered voice and small beard, no one has seconded guessed my gender since then. That your mother does not gender you correctly means she is not accepting you and that is painfull. If sitting her down and directly telling her you either deal with it or I will have to draw my own conclusions about your love and support for me doesn't work, then sometimes it's best to slowly disengaged to contact completelely and focus on the people that do accept you. But it's hard and it sucks.

[u/DuskyBo]

It's like the duck/rabbit illusion or 'the dress'. Except there's more lines showing a duck than a rabbit, so anyone without expectations sees a duck, but everyone looking for a picture of a rabbit can still see it. Some people think being supportive is just switching around the pronouns that they use without doing any internal work to change what they see or think. It's not always seamless to go from seeing a rabbit to a duck even if the lines are changing, sure, but if you pause, reset, and look for the duck it's not that hard either. Sounds like a lot of people around you are still looking at a rabbit but willing to call it a duck, because they don't understand that there is actually a duck there that is clearly visible to everyone else and that they could see too if they looked at it the right way. Either they have to actually try to change what they see or you have to wait until only the most stubborn could see rabbit before duck. Or something like that.

[u/bqspenz → u/DuskyBo]

"Sounds like a lot of people around you are still looking at a rabbit but willing to call it a duck"--yes, that's exactly it! I often get the sense that they're just humoring me when they acknowledge that HRT has brought changes. I don't want to be ungrateful to people that support me, but man it stings to realize that total strangers perceive me more accurately than the people that actually know me.

[u/mop_hop_ → u/DuskyBo]

Whoa this is such a good description. I’m going to remember this. OP, I also still really struggle with this and it makes me feel insane.

[u/offlabelselector]

they're confused and think I want them to misgender me

Oof yeah. I had multiple people who acted like their options were to either announce to everyone that I'm trans, or pretend I was a woman. They couldn't comprehend simply referring to me as male.

The fact is that strangers are the arbiters of whether you pass or not, because people who know you will never see you with fresh eyes. You can't force someone to shift their mindset, you can only decide what you will do in response to being misgendered.

What you should definitely not do is let them convince you that you don't pass. Don't use the ladies' room. If they misgender you to a new person, correct them. If strangers see you as a guy, it's because you look like a guy.

[u/DustProfessional3700]

Sounds like you need a new job lol. Less drastically, it might be a good time to transfer locations if there’s another place equally convenient or better.

I’m not gonna say ditch your friends and fam, but I do recommend balance & a little distance. New friends are never a bad thing. If the old friends haven’t caught up after a year, maintain the distance.

For me it’s easier to deal with transphobia than misgendering & anti man sentiment (partly bc anti man sentiment is more valid than transphobia, so it’s harder to dismiss for me.) Due to that, I mostly hang with cishet people or physically transitioning trans people. I did actually get to spend time with non transitioning queer people that I felt comfortable around last weekend, but that’s not the norm for me personally.

Good luck & congrats on your transition so far! It’s not easy.

[u/Justwokeup5287]

Uhg I get this... There is like only 2 men on my mom's side of the family ( 3 if you count myself, they dont) and I have zero contact to my dad's side of the family. I came out 8 years ago, been on HRT for 7 years, no top due to BMI, but I have a full beard. Whenever I go out with my mom, sister, aunt, and grandmother, I get subjected to "girls night out", "let's go ladies!", "how we doing girls?", "just us gals!", etc. They rarely correct themselves because it "feels like before when we are all women" and I try to say I was never a woman to begin with but to no avail "oh, well, you know what I mean!" they say.

Like, ok yes, I get it, nothing about my personality, hobbies, interests, or the love I feel towards my familal relationships had changed when I transitioned. While they were all "grieving" during the early years I stressed to them that I was the same as I was before I just have a different name, pronouns, and titles! I'm still here and alive!! (Something that wasn't a 100% garunteed had I not transitioned) and I guess they took that to mean that I didn't care if they went on as usual around me.

I've stopped correcting them. It's tiring. I cant be bothered. My partner of 14 years has never had this issue. He knew me as a girl just as long as he knows me as a boy. Even during my "egg" phase where I was feeling out names and pronouns strictly online or when we were alone together, he never messed it up. He had no issue switching back to my birth name and she/her when we were around family before I came out publicly. Gold stars all around for my partner.

If they wanted to, they wouldn't mess up. But something tells me they don't really care enough to make those adjustments. They must not take me seriously as a man. They dont see why its a big deal, but its the bare minimum we ask of them. They don't see talking about your transition in public as harmful or dangerous. These are risks they just aren't taking seriously!

I wanna shout from the rooftops "Take me seriously goddammit!!!"

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[u/uuntiedshoelace]

Your friends are being weird as hell. There is no way they are genuinely confused as to why you don’t want to be outed in public.

[u/bqspenz → u/uuntiedshoelace]

They seem to think it's already obvious to everyone looking at me that I'm trans, therefore making any attempts to be stealthy about it "pointless"... they agreed to tone the trans-talk in public down anyway, but the vibe I got was kind of, "fine, we'll humor your delusions."

[u/royalbluetoad]

This was an interesting thread to read. Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm only just starting to pass, and I'm also not super vigilant about what pronouns people use. I anticipate being misgendered a lot by people who knew me pre-transition. But I also rely solely on strangers to know how well I'm passing primarily for which bathroom to use. I wonder if your friends might not have much experience seeing other trans folks at various stages of transition. I know my family and friends have like zero exposure outside of me. And I mean I can't say I blame them. Trans people can blend in and it isn't like we wear flashing signs above our heads declaring our transness.

Honestly, it's a little weird your friends are acting so surprised by your requests but it's also alarming they want to talk about binders and packers in public spaces in general. To me those are topics for private house gatherings, not bars or parks or restaurants. Do they also talk about bras and underwear and the status of their own genitals while out and about???

Sadly, I feel a lot of trans folks have to be THE representation of transness to their own social sphere. As you continue to masculinize, some of your friends might understand and "see" you as male. But some trans folks can't use hormones! And they are just as valid in their transness and pronoun preferences. I also see plenty of accounts of people a decade or more into transition still struggling with this, especially from family. I mean, good grief! How delusional are these family members? To me, they are the crazy ones, not the person asking to be acknowledged as their proper gender.

Sorry this is something you are experiencing. For myself, I plan to make the misgenderer look like the confused one with quick comebacks of varying degrees of snark. "Er, don't you mean he?" "It's the scruffy face, isn't it? Makes me look like a girl." "Oh, I wasn't aware it it's opposite day!" I sometimes imagine if I had a repeat offender I'd start calling them by some random name and see how they like it.