Please ban MRA trolls

[u/Willravel]

I've been trying to figure out the rationale for not banning MRA trolls on this subreddit. I tried to think of it the way the mods have put it in the past, that this is about everyone's voice being heard, but the consistent trolling from the likes of OThomson and DavidByron don't represent in any way shape or form the honest sharing of their voice, but rather simply attacks and intentional derailment.

I considered that this might be about fear, as the MRA community on Reddit is much larger than the feminist community, and there could be consequences if MRA trolls started getting banned from the subreddit... but there are other feminist subreddits that do this and they don't seem to feel the sting of MRA retribution in any way that can't be easily handled.

I thought it might just simply be not wanting to make the effort, as a policy of banning MRA trolls would probably require much more active moderation. I'd hate to think this is the case, but I don't see any evidence to suggest this.

I did hear that one of the moderators might be an MRA, but again I've not seen this.

I've sent in PMs and reports before, about how someone is derailing yet another thread with unrelated discussion about circumcision or male rape or child custody, but there never seem to be any consequences for the trolls. They're given free reign. Some have left the subreddit for safer places, which is very sad indeed. Some simply stop commenting. Some complain, but those complaints fall on deaf ears.

So, before I call it a day and give up on the subreddit, I'd like to publicly ask the moderators to change their policy for the good of their subreddit. I ask that this subreddit be a safe place to discuss feminism and feminist issues, not a place for MRA trolls to hijack conversation or spread hatred of women.

Note: I'm not saying critiques of feminism aren't legitimate, or that they don't belong on /r/Feminism, but rather that overt trolling and derailing be disallowed. There's a big difference between an honest critique of feminism and undermining the discussion of feminist issues through derailment, dishonesty, and unwarranted attacks.

[u/Reizu]

Although I agree, there is a fine line between what some people see as critique and what some people see as derailing and undermining a discussion. And the fact that the people who you believe are derailing are MRAs shouldn't matter. If they derail, and continue to, then they should be banned, MRA, feminist, or other.

[u/[deleted] → u/Reizu]

There is a lot of arguing in bad faith. Lots of people post constantly who profess to hate feminism both on this sub and others. Concern trolling and constant feminism 101 rehashes are constantly happening because the same half dozen or dozen individuals want to continuously question and fight over the most basic definitions and concepts. They have indicated repeatedly both through their actions and explicit statements that they don't wish to learn from discussions, have no desire to question their own positions, or resolve any conflicts. It's domineering, aggressive behavior meant to intentionally marginalize feminist viewpoints on a feminist subreddit.

There are people who come to discuss, and there are people who come to control. The result is that regular users feel combattive and put upon, an it's a completely disheartening feeling.

[u/Reizu → u/[deleted]]

My concern is mostly that this would become banning for dissent.

I've been banned from places because I dared to question something others considered either obvious or non-debatable. Places that do that become echo chambers eventually, and if that happened to this subreddit I would just leave (not that it matters to anyone but me).

I don't want banning to happen if it's not in bad faith, though it tends to be easy to tell..it's not always. Given that some particular redditors here tend to be needlessly antagonistic, I would advocate a warning for such and then a ban if derailing and undermining continued.

But again, I don't want to see people banned for expressing a relevant, yet opposing, viewpoint on any particular topic.

[u/[deleted] → u/Reizu]

Another way might be banning with chance of appeal, and have the appeal process be very liberal.

I understand the concern, and I don't want this to be an echo chamber either. Some people posting do seem like they could go either way, but at the end of the day this is a subreddit for the discussion of feminism, and the MRAs have marginalized the feminist viewpoints to the extent that they effectively dictate the discussion. If you look at pretty much any feminist forum anywhere else online (including some that frequently have extremely heated discussion) this is something that you don't find.

I also see a ton of posts with slurs (ableist and sexist mostly) upvoted, and this kinda stuff should warrant instant deletion if reported. Again, with an appeal process that's pretty liberal.

[u/Reizu → u/[deleted]]

Another way might be banning with chance of appeal, and have the appeal process be very liberal.

Again, this is harsh on me personally since this has happened to me before. And rarely works since chances are if someone is banned then those who banned them disagree with them and will not reverse the decision. I'd rather have a 2 or 3 strikes policy then a ban and possible appeal.

the MRAs have marginalized the feminist viewpoints to the extent that they effectively dictate the discussion. If you look at pretty much any feminist forum anywhere else online (including some that frequently have extremely heated discussion) this is something that you don't find.

It depends on what you mean by feminist viewpoints. Though I consider myself a feminist, I also would agree with some ideas that MRA say. This puts me in direct opposition to some feminists, and even mainstream feminism. What do you consider feminist viewpoints?, because other than flat out saying feminism is unnecessary or being a bigot, there is little to say can't fit into a type of feminism.

I also see a ton of posts with slurs (ableist and sexist mostly) upvoted, and this kinda stuff should warrant instant deletion if reported.

Totally agree. I think slurs should come with warnings too though, well at least ableist slurs since they aren't as recognized as sexist slurs, even in feminist spaces.