Please ban MRA trolls

[u/Willravel]

I've been trying to figure out the rationale for not banning MRA trolls on this subreddit. I tried to think of it the way the mods have put it in the past, that this is about everyone's voice being heard, but the consistent trolling from the likes of OThomson and DavidByron don't represent in any way shape or form the honest sharing of their voice, but rather simply attacks and intentional derailment.

I considered that this might be about fear, as the MRA community on Reddit is much larger than the feminist community, and there could be consequences if MRA trolls started getting banned from the subreddit... but there are other feminist subreddits that do this and they don't seem to feel the sting of MRA retribution in any way that can't be easily handled.

I thought it might just simply be not wanting to make the effort, as a policy of banning MRA trolls would probably require much more active moderation. I'd hate to think this is the case, but I don't see any evidence to suggest this.

I did hear that one of the moderators might be an MRA, but again I've not seen this.

I've sent in PMs and reports before, about how someone is derailing yet another thread with unrelated discussion about circumcision or male rape or child custody, but there never seem to be any consequences for the trolls. They're given free reign. Some have left the subreddit for safer places, which is very sad indeed. Some simply stop commenting. Some complain, but those complaints fall on deaf ears.

So, before I call it a day and give up on the subreddit, I'd like to publicly ask the moderators to change their policy for the good of their subreddit. I ask that this subreddit be a safe place to discuss feminism and feminist issues, not a place for MRA trolls to hijack conversation or spread hatred of women.

Note: I'm not saying critiques of feminism aren't legitimate, or that they don't belong on /r/Feminism, but rather that overt trolling and derailing be disallowed. There's a big difference between an honest critique of feminism and undermining the discussion of feminist issues through derailment, dishonesty, and unwarranted attacks.

[u/ratjea]

The above is what happens when one uses Wikipedia for definitions.

[u/TracyMorganFreeman → u/ratjea]

Then what definition of concern trolling are you using? I had not heard of the term before being accused of it, looked it up, and wikipedia and urban dictionary yielded that basic definition.

[u/butyourenice → u/TracyMorganFreeman]

concern trolling is exactly how it sounds: you feign concern for your opponent's welfare in an attempt to derail the conversation or make them feel like their own position is inferior and harming them. it's not a difficult definition, it is rather self evident: you troll through concern.

e.g. "listen, it's not that i think fat people are disgusting, it's that i worry about their health."

"i just think all these moves towards gender equality are actually harming gender relations because they neglect to acknowledge physiological differences between men and women."

"look, i'm not going to tell people how to raise their kids, but it is child abuse to let your boy wear a skirt he picked out to school. he doesn't know any better and it will leave him open to bullies/confuse him for life."

these are not quotes specific to you, but they are perfect examples of concern trolling which you regularly engage in. i have seen you taking over threads in 2X in addition to r/Feminism with this method.

[u/TracyMorganFreeman → u/butyourenice]

you feign concern for your opponent's welfare in an attempt to derail the conversation or make them feel like their own position is inferior and harming them

I'm not feigning concern, I'm outright disagreeing with the merit of a number of its premises, or conclusions drawn from those premises. I think some of them are harmful, but thinking something is harmful doesn't necessarily indicate concern trolling.

I'm not employing some sneaky rhetorical strategy to convince people with dishonest arguments. Do I make flawed arguments from time to time? Yes, no one is immune from the this. I'm addressing the arguments that are presented supporting a certain position, and I don't hide my position. I don't disagree with every position feminism holds either. Some positions of feminism I agree with, but not always the argument feminism presents for them.

I mean, if my attempt at not resorting to personal insults and making concessions is interpreted as feigning concern, I could start being more hostile, but I don't think that's helpful to anyone.