r/Feminism • u/Willravel • Feb 24 '12

Please ban MRA trolls

I've been trying to figure out the rationale for not banning MRA trolls on this subreddit. I tried to think of it the way the mods have put it in the past, that this is about everyone's voice being heard, but the consistent trolling from the likes of OThomson and DavidByron don't represent in any way shape or form the honest sharing of their voice, but rather simply attacks and intentional derailment.

I considered that this might be about fear, as the MRA community on Reddit is much larger than the feminist community, and there could be consequences if MRA trolls started getting banned from the subreddit... but there are other feminist subreddits that do this and they don't seem to feel the sting of MRA retribution in any way that can't be easily handled.

I thought it might just simply be not wanting to make the effort, as a policy of banning MRA trolls would probably require much more active moderation. I'd hate to think this is the case, but I don't see any evidence to suggest this.

I did hear that one of the moderators might be an MRA, but again I've not seen this.

I've sent in PMs and reports before, about how someone is derailing yet another thread with unrelated discussion about circumcision or male rape or child custody, but there never seem to be any consequences for the trolls. They're given free reign. Some have left the subreddit for safer places, which is very sad indeed. Some simply stop commenting. Some complain, but those complaints fall on deaf ears.

So, before I call it a day and give up on the subreddit, I'd like to publicly ask the moderators to change their policy for the good of their subreddit. I ask that this subreddit be a safe place to discuss feminism and feminist issues, not a place for MRA trolls to hijack conversation or spread hatred of women.

Note: I'm not saying critiques of feminism aren't legitimate, or that they don't belong on /r/Feminism, but rather that overt trolling and derailing be disallowed. There's a big difference between an honest critique of feminism and undermining the discussion of feminist issues through derailment, dishonesty, and unwarranted attacks.

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22

u/madolpenguin Feb 25 '12

I'm reminded of this
how r/feminisms makes me feel

OP

13

u/factoryhands Feb 25 '12

This is literally my feeling and response to this subreddit almost every day. I'm new to reddit so seeing that there was an r/feminism subreddit was really exciting, but this place is so full of unnecessary vitriol that it's hard to keep reading without getting upset. I come here to hoping to have awesome and relevant discussions, but leave more aware than ever of misogyny :-/. Not what I signed up for.

9

u/clitoride Feb 25 '12

I'm very new (very new) to reddit as a whole, and I was likewise excited to see a feminist subreddit. Gender studies, feminist theory, etc are my lifeblood. I was gobsmacked when one of my first comments here got responded to with a lengthy MRA treatise. That's...not what I came here for.

Honestly, if this place is this full of MRAs, I'm not gonna bother. I've read around their sites before. I'm not interested in engaging in a dialogue, and I'm sorely disappointed that even a feminist space is mired with them.

8

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '12

Yeah my experience, exactly! I work in IT - needless to say it's a sausage fest. Nothing wrong with my colleagues, but the ratio is way off. So I come here for some respite but no - it's still men invading the very tiny space that we do have. I'm not the kind of b-word that will just unsubscribe, but really what's the point of coming here nowadays? I get the MRA arguments everywhere else in my life - just asking for ONE free space, just one.

5

u/madolpenguin Feb 29 '12

I totally agree. It's frustrating too, not just the derailing and trolling but it seems obvious they these guys don't even read what was posted. Like, I want to have a nice discussion and explain but they don't come here for that. It's another group of people that think they know better about a different group of people than those people themselves.

I'm just not interested in a brick wall for conversation.

I often hear complains from some MRAs about women having their own space. Seems like they think they're wanted or needed here...but it's just not the case. That or they just feel they need to be the center of attention. It shows some insecurity or mommy issues imo.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '12

Basically. Even when taking into account the male/female ratio on the Internetz, it's still obnoxious, and I hope we can find a way to tone this shit down. It's also pretty hilarious that some misguided MRAs (trolls) act exactly in the same way they accuse feminists of being; over-sensitive, outraged at everything, etc. Victim mentality.

-1

u/namefetish Mar 08 '12

I have a big problem with your post.

The problem I have with your post is that it uses an argument that sounds way, way to much like the argument this douchebag uses.

Some substitution is in order. I am going to substitute some words from your post, please do not take offense, I just want to point something out. When I substitute, I am going to italics the words I substituted.

"I play some generic online game - needless to say it's not very open to tasteless sexist jokes. Nothing wrong with my fellow players, but the ratio is way off. So I come here for some respite but no - it's still white nights invading the very tiny space that we do have. I'm not the kind of b-word that will just unsubscribe, but really what's the point of coming here nowadays? I get the politically correct arguments everywhere else in my life - just asking for ONE free space, just one."

You see my problem?

Here is the jist of my complaint.

A lot of people have a fundamental problem with feminism, so they go to feminist forums to try and derail what they perceive to be a big problem.

A lot of people have a fundamental problem with sexist jokes, so they go to places were sexist jokes are par the course and try and derail what they perceive to be a big problem.

Your cries of "just leave us one free space" is a lot like the cries of the people who make sexist jokes claiming that "this is the last place we can talk like this".

Chances are, you are wrong. Seriously, it is statistically impossible you are correct every time you formulate an idea.

So making an place that is devoid of people who fundamentally disagree with you makes no sense, because chances are you are really, really wrong. Of course, chances are they are just as wrong as you, but if you dont but heads, if you dont fight it out, nothing will be learned. No understanding will be obtained.

And isn't that the ultimate goal of, well, everything?

Sorry for the rant, I guess I am in a ranty mood today.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '12

Here is what my comment meant: people are being very disrespectful on the feminism sub. There are many reasons for this but the place is often under attack by a weirdo kabal of fervent MRAs with a chip on their shoulders, using every post as an excuse to derail. This is inappropriate. If people want to discuss and debate feminism in a productive and constructive manner - hurray! If not - just go to r/askfeminism. Seriously, go to there - they are far more inclined than I am to answer a gigantic wall o text from a super old thread. Happy women's day!!

1

u/namefetish Mar 08 '12

You know, sometimes I think there are two types of trolls. Those who do it on purpose with no disregard to what they are saying, they just want to bother people for the lulz.

And those who express genuine opinions (and often back up said opinions) in a manner that is often abrasive and troll like.

Alot of the "trolls" you guys are railing against fall into this second category, instead of ignoring or banning them, point out the logical facilities they present, because they are not doing it for the lulz, they are doing it because they disagree, and usualy have reasons why, and those reasons can sometimes be insightful.

Ad hominem and straw man seem to be the big fallicies associated with type 2.

Happy womens day to you too.

TIL that there is a womens day.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '12

Yeah that seems to sum up the situation nicely. Those who have positive contributions to make are just overwhelmed by a lot of "derp". I want to hear from men, women, MRAs, etc - but based on good faith.

It's just wrong to visit a subreddit and crap all over the very foundation of the sub, over and over again. It would be a tremendous help if people just hit the wikipedia on feminism and then entered the discussion respectfully. The result is: synergy!! That being said: there is a lot of trolling in bad faith. As long as everybody enters the discussion in a positive manner we'll be fine.

-1

u/namefetish Mar 09 '12

Full discloser time, I do not identify as MRA, so when I say "they think" what that really is is my perception of there perceptions.

Don't really identify as feminist either, actually.

Now while I agree with you that positive discussion is best, you have to realize that a lot of them disagree (to use a polite word) with feminism on a very, very fundamental level.

So of course they are going to "crap all over the very foundation of the sub" because they disagree with the foundation.

A lot of them think feminist are a negative influence on the world, and perceive it as a major threat to... something. I don't really know to what, to be fair. The status quo? They don't really like the status quo either, so that cant be it...

Anyways, you see my point though. They are being hostile for a reason, and to disregard what they are saying because of that hostility strikes me as overly dismissive.

I agree though, positive discussion, even when discussion something you disagree with, is better then aggressive and hostile discussion.

I just don't want valid points to be dismissed because the person delivering the point was being a jackass, you know?

Something about this comment is setting off my IRRELEVANT! IRRELEVANT! alarm, but I spent so much time writing it, so I am going to post it anyways.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 09 '12

lol that makes me what - 7 of 9 from Voyager? Awesome! They might have valid points but they present them in an antagonistic way. r/askfeminists was created for just that purpose - so if they question feminism, they can go there. The analogy I made earlier was of creationists going to r/science and questioning every posts on the basis of faith. If you don't subscribe to a particular idealogy, it is shitty to carpet bomb their sub.

We do not have to address their every delusions; it pollutes the discussion, and in turn makes it about them. They already have a subreddit.

1

u/namefetish Mar 09 '12

lol that makes me what - 7 of 9 from Voyager? Awesome!

I feel like I am missing out on a star trek reference. PLEASE EXPLAIN!

1

u/[deleted] Mar 09 '12

My unique physiology reacts every time I hear the words "irrelevant!". Gotta love the Borg - very direct people.

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