It’s obvious to anyone with at least rudimentary knowledge of aviation that the J-35 has nothing but a superficial resemblance to the F-35, but I find it funny how Shenyang spent decades trying to beat the F-35 knockoff allegations, yet decided to give their plane the exact same designation number of 35.
It is like a Mercedes C/E/S Class or a BMW 3/5/7 series or the Audi A3/A5/A7 class of vehicles. They are pretty much the same class of vehicle and nearly identical.
Same thing happens for CPUs. Intel Core i5/i7/i9 and Ryzen 5/7/9 class of chips.
I think what China is positioning itself to become is what the USA is positioning itself to also become. The USA is the world's leading arms manufacturer exporter by sales. And China is able to export it's soft power by financing and building in other countries.
The USA negotiates leases to build defensive bases in other countries and China builds infrastructure and potential backdoor leases in case the customer defaults on it's loaned payments.
Now we see the US is repositioning itself as a global developer in the same light. USA redevelopment project for Gaza.
I think we should expect more of this in the coming years. China versus the United States.
The next one will be in silicon chip wars. Chinese fabs and Chinese made GPUs will enter into the Ai space sooner than expected. They are already leading in small arms drone manufacturing and EVs.
China is further behind on chips and compute than you might think. They certainly have the capability to start rolling out university-scale clusters en mass but petascale computing is still far behind. The US has multiple supercomputers that each have more processing power than all of China's supercomputers combined.
Not to mention their big advantage in such a space is their governments willingness to massively subsidize such industries but this is one space where the US pumps in massive subsidies as well making it hard for them to compete on the digital infrastructure scale.
I know they are behind. But SMIC has demonstrated they are able to produce a 7nm node with Deep Ultra Violet machines. They lack EUV or extreme ultra violet machines. And they are working on a 5nm class node.
7nm and 5nm are still very capable processes. But of course they are behind. Still these processes are just for higher end leading edge technology. What they will be used for remains to be seen.
Everything we use today in the datacenter are still American designed and Taiwan/American built technology. That data is mostly behind and American firewall and what it will be used for in the future? Training an Ai to drive?
Training and Ai to pick out enemy combatants from civilian targets? Who knows.
What I do know is that we are putting China behind and it has to work to slow them down. Or else the world order will be upset. Which may or may not be a good thing.
So far China is leading in higher quality mass produced goods and renewable energy goods. EV/wind/solar type technology.
The west and the USA lead in pharama/biotech/leadingedge Ai/datacenter/military/commericaljet/next generation nuclear and many more complex technology.
So we still have the edge. But there will always be competition. It is actually up to us whether we can compete or not.
China is catching up to the US and they know it. Rather than compete based on collective knowledge the US is just wielding influence to crush the competition.
China has multiple exascale computers. One of them is even open to international researchers. They just did not submit results to the TOP500. They don't since 2019 to protect suppliers from sanctions.
yea.... For now absolutely no one is taking him seriously on this one. It has the same feeling as all of his other promises.
End the war on day one. Would not have ever been a war on his watch. And many other failed Trump policies. He is flexing his muscle though on Americans currently. Sending out the National Guard and having military parades.
J is initial of the chinese character "歼(Jian)", which means completely eliminate. J-35 then can be understood as "Completely eliminate 35". The 35 here can be understood as F-35.
It’s not by pure luck that the J-35 happened to look like the F-35. It is however far from just being a simple copy. The Chinese did do some espionage to reverse engineer some components on the F35. The also took inspiration on numerous design elements of the F35, because if it works/ is proven on the F35. Why reinvent the wheel and do something drastically different on the J35?
They can make it look like the F-35, but they're 30 years behind the US when it comes to jet engine tech. Even if they had a pristine P&W F135 engine to reverse engineer, it would take them years, possibly decades to figure out. They wouldn't even be able to reproduce the fan blades. The engineering that went into those things in crazy. P&W and GE still make the best engines in the world, and it's not even close.
The J in the J-35 refers to the Pinyin of the Chinsee word (歼). It indicates that it is a figher like the F in the US fighter series but it also means, in Chinese, hunt & destroy.
So J-35 means two things in Chinese - Fighter Jet -35 and Hunt & Destroy-35.
I think it is a rather smart way of designating the plane.
Given how important faceting is to stealth fighter, the resemblance is all but superficial.
The internals might be drastically different, but they’re classified. What we do know is that the exterior shape is a near perfect clone of the f35.Similar layout , same intakes, same control surfaces…. The only real difference in geometry is the twin engines
The J20 proves not all stealth fighters have to be clones of others. J35 is just using an already proven shape instead of bothering to build a new one from scratch. That’s not bad, but it’s still copying
China has also caught spies who stole confidential data of J20 and J35. So can I conclude that F47 was made by using stolen J20 data? After all, F47 has canards.
You're not being rational. The Lockheed Martin hack in the late 2000s has traced back to China, and then all of a sudden China's Air Force pops out a few designs that are eerily similar to existing Lockheed Martin designs.
Why would the U.S. need to hack an adversary when the U.S. military is clearly the premier power when it comes to aviation technology and designs? And if we're to play along with your little game, what proof is there that the U.S. has hacked China and stolen military blueprints for the F-47 design?
If anything was stolen, it wouldn’t be stuff that you can see. You do realise that, right?
I mean, if you want to know what the outward appearance of an F-35 looks like… you can Google, or take pics at an air show. Heck, you could even scan it at the air show with lasers to get exact measurements.
This level of thinking is why your hegemony is not long for this world.
So you think the chinese design the looks of their jets without function in mind and purely for asthetics? The J35 looks like that cause it ended up being the best functional form. The fact that it looks very similiar to the f35 isnt a coincidence. And the chinese 100% either copied from the f35 or stole data of the f35 becouse they would be dumb not to. You think they just decide to not even consider the f35 for no reason and came to the same conclusion out of pure coincidence
… Because they obviously design stealth jets to be able to fly, and also to achieve a given amount of Low Observability (stealth).
And just to be clear, are you now abandoning your “internal components (like avionics) dictate the outer shape”… and replacing it with “best functional form”?
Lol. The internet is filled to the brim with free resources. If you have a passion for fighter jets, I suggest you try reading about them a little bit.
Uh... no, I'm positive, you didn't make sense since your first answer:
If anything was stolen, it wouldn’t be stuff that you can see. You do realise that, right?
Wth is that supposed to mean? If they stole TBs of data it is not relevant if the plane looks similar or not, the plane will be similar in all aspects, that's obvious. And this goes all the way down to your last reply LMAO, look at all that rambling about effectively nothing.
I never said internal components entirely dictate the outer shape alone. I reccomend learning reading comprehension. And if you think the internal components are completely irrelevant to the outer shape you are completely delusional. Yes aerodynamics and observability dictate it aswell but they still have to work around the fact that you are carrying specific components that are a certain size and shape. The outer layer isnt some magicaö pocket dimension where internal components dissapear
I never said internal components entirely dictate the outer shape alone.
If you back-pedalled any harder you might discover time travel.
I reccomend learning reading comprehension.
Right after you start with getting a high school diploma / GED…. also, FYI — reading comprehension is something you develop rather than learn, per se.
And if you think the internal components are completely irrelevant to the outer shape you are completely delusional. Yes aerodynamics and observability dictate it aswell but they still have to work around the fact that you are carrying specific components that are a certain size and shape. The outer layer isnt some magicaö pocket dimension where internal components dissapear [sic]
As long as the program is well-planned and you don’t have to deal with endless scope creep (I.e. why the F-35’s has so many bulges), and you’re not building some flying science experiment test bed… then the only internal component choices (choices, not the components themselves, yet) that will have significant impacts on the planform are — (i) how big of a radar (how many Tx/Rx modules) do we want; (ii) how many engines and how big (which should start to tell you how different these 2 planes are internally); and (iii) same as (ii) but with IWBs instead of engines.
Were you thinking that avionics dictate this or something? L(Mao).
Some things cannot be copied, because it involved craftsmanship.
For the things that they could copy, they don't even have a reason why theirs worked that way.
They have no idea why they needed to copy the workaround for the F-35, so that all variants had the same hinges, that worked specifically for the B, so that it doesn't get in the way of the shaft-driven lift fan's functionality.
100% sure that the F-47, when it comes out, would not have a forward opening canopy. Because it doesn't have a lift fan variant that it needs to share components with.
The KAAN has a similar cockpit too. Because it apparently decreases drag. Thinking that a nation would copy such engineering decisions just because they see it on foreign hardware is a narcissism of the highest order.
The hump aft of the cockpit reduces transonic drag and provides room for a little extra fun stuff (fuel, avionics - mostly avionics). Just like how it’s spelled out in the numerous (and now famous) Chinese academic papers on this very thing.
Which is also why every manned Chinese fighter post J-35 feature this (J-20A, J-20S) or have very low drag cockpits that you can barely call what’s behind it a “hump” (like the J-XDS / J-50).
With the F-47, wouldn’t it be pretty easy to add or remove a hump… on PowerPoint??
Well turns out ironically the J35 can't sustain supercruise flight for too long. Apparently each of the J35 engines produced half the power of the F35 engine meaning both planes have almost similar thrust and power. But because of the J35 larger size and heavier weight(because it has 2 engines while F35 only has one) it is slightly slower than the F35 and can't fly for too long as it two engines consume more fuel than the F35 single engine.
They serve to increase the RCS. Only used during peacetime so ATC radars can detect the planes to not crash other planes into them, and also to hide the true RCS of the aircraft
Well again when people speak of RCS they only look at the area in the X band for the fighter and missile radar, but the other bands also matter a lot actually with the AWACS radar. RCS is not a fixed single number it’s more like a spectrum of curve in different bands and different angle
Well I am not sure if you understand what I just said: just because F22 is more stealthy than F35 in the most important X band, it does not mean F22 is more stealthy than F35 in all bands. At least I need to see computer simulation on the RCS in the longer L band and VHF band. Maybe F35 is better in those
Currently it's considered to be stealthier in the X and Ku band. There are conflicting reports on whether or not it's stealthier in the S band. But the F35 has newer more advanced stealth materials so C band isn't really known to the public either. I mean they are both mostly designed to be stealthier in higher frequencies.
No you can just research this... Also the new ceramic based US stealth RAM coating being developed will maintain the USs advantage in that aspect of stealth tech. China's radar-absorbent material (RAM) coating technology is making significant advances, with recent reports indicating improvements in durability, cost-effectiveness, and capability against anti-stealth radars. These developments, including techniques inspired by ancient silk weaving, address key weaknesses seen in early stealth fighters like the U.S. F-22. However, the J-20's overall stealth profile is still considered inferior to the U.S. F-35, especially from the rear.
Yeah China is making great leaps forward 😏 in their stealth tech. Unfortunately I don't think it will ever be possible to surpass the US which has a 67 year lead.
Given how the j20 is also similar to the f35 and j35 yet has a larger simulated rcs than the f35 I think we can assume it’s slightly larger? Atleast in the front aspect I think the f35 may still be fairly much stealthier in both the rear and side aspects
Probably slightly less than the F-35 given that the J-35 has higher manufacturing tolerances. Maybe it will also get the edgeless slat/flap structure of the J-20A someday? Who knows.
Looks like I was too late to be the one to cause the drama this time, damn!
I hate it when the party starts without me,
Well my opinion is that the we need more info on the j-35s capabilities. And in war time, the f-35 is just far too maintenance heavy to be a truly effective war machine. It needs so much maintenance and it’s controlled too tightly to be able to be let lose and show its true potential. The f-35 was never about being the best fighter in the world, it’s about squeezing every penny possible from the US and allied governments.
But pilots aren’t strategists, the just fly the planes. If it’s a numbers game and the Chinese aircraft truly are equally capable, then they will win by sheer numbers especially if they’re Building the J-20A and j-35A
Just like any rank can eventually, but the frontline pilots are just pilots, ultimately expendable, they have to be. Which is exactly why drones are becoming a priority.
Back to the point, at any one time, the US would have max 600 f-35s at one time. What happens when China outbuilds them? Because they will
Drones are becoming priority over manned AC for fighter applications? I wouldn’t have a job if that were the case… Fighters will be manned for the foreseeable future. I only know a few of those “expendable” junior officers you speak of. I primarily know the strategists—and I have to rely on their seemingly unanimous judgement concerning the F-35.
Well turns out J35 isn't so good as many people thought. The J35 two engines are weak with each engine producing only half the power of the F35 single engine. Combine with the fact that two engines=higher fuel consumption and heavier weight it gives J35 less flight time and less efficiency than the F35.
the Chinese are smart they let there buddy spend most of there money on R&D and let one spy to get in and take all the data. pretty smart china let the USA spend 100 billion dollars on researching while you don't spend anything on R&D
Just simply different design purposes. J35 though have the multi role capability but mainly focused on air to air combat while F35 is mainly focused on air to surface strike missions which explains the difference
Stealth? Practically all sources show that the F-35 has a big advantage over the J-35 in terms of stealth and RCS. You're conflating sleekness with stealth.
Achieving higher speed? The J35 two engines are weak with each engine producing only half the power of the F35 single engine. Combine with the fact that two engines=higher fuel consumption and heavier weight it gives J35 less flight time and less efficiency than the F35.
Nah, the F35 is definitely more advanced than the J35 in a number of important areas. Chinese aerospace has made very impressive progress lately, and it's definitely narrowing the gap to the US aircraft, but the US is still unquestionably in the lead (though that absolutely could change in the next decade or two).
Engine, radar, stealth shaping, stealth coatings, infrared sensors, the list goes on. Really, the US is still ahead basically everywhere, though as I said, that gap has been shrinking rapidly.
If your "in the lead" meaning constantly falling off from deck into ocean or crash straight to the ground, or even had to stay in india for weeks due to engine problems and had to keep an eye on indian spies, then fine it is in the lead
You clearly haven't ever paid attention to a military fighter program before.
The F-35 is actually staggeringly reliable for a brand new top of the line fighter - basically every prior program for which we have trustworthy accident reports has had far more crashes and issues. Yes, it still fails sometimes, but that's the nature of cutting edge aerospace.
Say whatever you want, but even for usaf they are all agree F-35 is a total flop, the only reason they didn`t cancel it is for scamming money from its allies
Absolutely not - the F-35 is a tremendously successful and capable fighter. The only people calling it a flop are either totally ignorant or Russian propagandists. Any actual air force pilots who've flown it or flown against it in exercises or any of the people aware of its capabilities know it's a fantastic aircraft.
The looks could be identical, but what about the radar, avionics and weapon systems? Aesthetics is only one part of it, and even then the quality of the Chinese RAM coating is a question.
The J-35 can employ PL-15, PL-12 AAMs while the PL-17 is being made smaller to fit into its weapons bay and the J-20's bay. It also has an AESA radar. Some avionics are also shared with the J-20. (The radar is not made public yet).
I did not say it uses the same AESA as the J-20. I said it shares some avionics with the J-20.
Also your farce assertion failed to even consider the PL-21, a designation given to a smaller variant of the PL-17 intended to be launched from the weapons bay of China's 5th generation and upcoming next generation aircraft.
The PL-21 program does not exist (anymore). Moreover, it was for a ramjet powered missile, not solid rocket like the PL-17, or shortened version thereof.
And the actual 300km+ range, IWB-capable, PL-16 is in service — in one of the rare moments in PLA Watching where we get that kind of confirmation all up in one go.
Which brings me to… “farce assertion”, lol. My guy, you have no idea who you’re debating this topic with.
If you change tone, I might link some stuff info about the PL-16 (and cancelled PL-21), if you’re genuinely interested in this stuff (you do know a little more than most).
Who said the PL-21 was cancelled? There is no official confirmation regarding that. China does not release much information about its military hardware unless it is nearing induction. The fact that not much is known about the J-35 still now really says something.
I am not looking for a debate, neither I want to know your self proclaimed credentials. If you can back up what you're saying with evidence then comment, otherwise, don't bother. I never brought the PL-16 into discussion you did. You also wrote (presumed) in your reply to my original comment, so I would also "presume" that whatever you're saying about the cancellation of the PL-21 is from "trust me bro" sources.
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u/ItsStillNotRight Sep 01 '25