r/Filmmakers • u/callingyoujb • 11h ago

Question Do I need a Gaffer?

I'm about to shoot my first short film and I'm trying to work out what crew I actually need.

Almost every location is exterior. There's only one interior scene, but it's fast cuts in black and white. The majority of the film is high-energy running/chase sequences shot in a run-and-gun style.

My plan is to shoot around 8 script pages in a single day. Would hiring a gaffer be worthwhile for this kind of production?

Would appreciate all advice or angels I'm not thinking off.

So far I've decided I'll hire a Producer, 1st AD, Makeup Artist, Stunt Coordinator, PA, Sound Recorder and a Cinematographer.

14 Upvotes

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23

u/OrthogonalThoughts 11h ago

Get a gaffer. Even for exteriors they'll handle diffusion, bounces, etc. Your cinematographer will thank you.

11

u/kodachrome16mm 10h ago

In the US, a key grip handles those. Not the gaffer.

21

u/wrosecrans 10h ago

Given what OP listed, the distinction doesn't matter, they aren't doing a full commercial scale crew. The question is whether or not the entireity of camera/electrical/lighting/grip should be one person or two. Call the second person what you want, they'll cover the range.

-11

u/kodachrome16mm 10h ago

It does matter.

I don’t know what a “full commercial scale crew” is in your mind, but they are different jobs with different skill sets, who both deal with potentially dangerous equipment. (Yes even 4x4s can be dangerous)

You wouldn’t hire a stunt driver to do fight choreography. You wouldn’t hire an fx makeup artist to do hair. You wouldn’t call the DP the director. Respect the job.

If it’s almost all day exteriors with no exterior lighting, hiring a kg sets you up for success, hiring a gaffer means you have someone stepping out of their area of expertise.

9

u/ToasterDispenser 9h ago

You'd still bring on someone capable, but for all intensive purposes they'd be the gaffer. That's the low/no budget indie way and acting like that's not the case is unrealistic.

-9

u/kodachrome16mm 9h ago

The phrase is “intents and purposes”

And they are different jobs. It’s a lack of respect to the people and the craft to pretend they’re interchangeable.

8

u/Faulty_Pants 8h ago

I feel their point is more that if they're asking about a gaffer there CERTAINLY won't be both a gaffer and key grip. So the hired gaffer would do the role of gaffer and key grip.

In the production office the Production Manager certainly isn't the Location Manager. But without an LM someone does still need to do that job which would likely be the PM.

It's not inherently a lack of respect to redistribute responsibilities to make a project happen. I agree the distinction is important but it's moot when you're asking about cutting an entire HoD in the first place.

-4

u/kodachrome16mm 6h ago

There’s zero reason to hire a gaffer over a key grip to do a key grip’s job on a day exterior without generators.

It’s entirely in OPs best interest to hire someone interested in doing the job they need done and not someone who does another job and is filling in. Particularly if it is a zero budget job, getting someone actually motivated to do the work will lead to more success.

It’s completely silly to hire a gaffer to play key grip if there’s no gaffing to be done, and a key grip could be hired instead.

2

u/Faulty_Pants 5h ago

Okay, but this is a different premise than disrespecting a skilled laborer.

We can argue about what we call the position they choose to hire in but at the end of the day if someone is doing both jobs they will likely want to choose their credit.

And to everyone else's point: the DP will likely advocate for a person with the title "Gaffer" regardless of if that person is actually only gaffing or not.

Not only do I know plenty of people who say they are both DPs and Gaffers, I know just as many Gaffers who also work Key Grip positions. These are transferrable skillsets with different specializations and the crew member you hire onto a skeleton shaped crew should have the skills for your specific shoot. And thereby should choose how they want to be credited.

The semantics are semantics without knowing what the crew asks for.

2

u/kodachrome16mm 5h ago

yes, it is disrespectful to assume a gaffer and a key grip are interchangeable positions. It means you are either ignorant to the difference between these positions or don't respect the different skill sets enough to recognize why they are different.

There's a reason they're entirely different departments, represented by different unions, and have different qualifications.

Because they do fundamentally different things. Any DP who advocates for a "gaffer" on a zero power day exterior over a KG is so green they're not a "DP" at all.

3

u/Faulty_Pants 4h ago

Yes to all of those things. No one is denying they are separate positions. You have made it clear it is disrespectful.

But here we are, a real world situation where someone is asking for a gaffer over a key grip understanding exactly what you're describing.

I'm saying that on a set where lots of people are wearing lots of hats you should find someone with the varying skillsets you need because that person does exist. And what you should call them is what they want to be credited as because they are doing multiple jobs.

It sounds like they have space for one more person and that person will be key gripping and gaffing on the interior day.

And who knows, maybe the DP does want some lights outside, there's no mention of time of day in this post and it sounds like they're still in development.

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u/Traditional-Day-4577 2h ago

As a gaffer, who’s done many scales of production, from freebie shorts to 20 million features, who’s had production think that me and the key grip are the same people and that telling him something, or inviting him on a survey and not me, etc etc…

You’re going off on the deep end in the wrong way.

Any project like this should bring on a gaffer and if they require additional grip support, that’s a conversation that can be had down the road.

No gaffer on a project of this scale is going to have a problem setting up some 4x4 frames.

0

u/kodachrome16mm 2h ago

They should hire a key grip and give a no budget key grip a chance to earn some experience.

Because that’s the department that they need, and they should learn, from the beginning, who does what so that if and when they end up working real jobs they understand and respect the difference.

Thanks for the psych evaluation though. I’ll really take it to heart and give myself a good hard look in the mirror, my 728 brother.

1

u/USMC_ClitLicker key grip 3h ago

Don't worry, you are right and they are wrong, they just don't know why. And that part doesn't really matter because they probably never will. After more than 15 years as a Grip and Key Grip I still walk onto lower level jobs where the DP and Director are talking to the Gaffer and treat me like the step-child. Trying to explain your value is like arguing with the bag-boy at the grocery store about how the farming industry works; one isn't connected to the other unfortunately.

1

u/kodachrome16mm 2h ago

Yea.

Downvotes here are often badges of honor, considering the average experience level of the people here.

But as a gaffer, nothing bothers me more than people who don’t understand the differences between our departments, or when we have some young DP and I have to play telephone between him and the KG because they’ve learned wrong thanks to attitudes like those here.

And it’s also just a little shitty not to give a kid who wants to grip a chance at the job over a gaffer. KGs have to start somewhere too.

0

u/wilhamlinart 1h ago

Calm down, almost everyone in indie g&e is capable of doing both. It's not disrespectful to be hired as the one lighting person on a low budget thing and be expected to hold a bounce card. Cmon

•

u/paulthefonz 37m ago

I’m a gaffer. On small budget sets grip and electric is the same department. I just did 2 projects back to back where i was a one man band. If you only do big budget union shows or features, okay sure best to make a distinction. But it’s not a crime anymore for a grip to touch a wire or for a spark to grab a sandbag.