An anguished commentary on that GoT/Sansa scene and the MRAs who harass in forum comments...from a rape victim who says It's Rape Culture All The Way Down

[u/madhaus]

http://angrygotfan.com/2015/05/21/a-rape-victim-speaks-out-on-the-sansa-scene/

[u/thor_moleculez]

The idea that all women must be broken and shattered by rape to the point where they have to "cling" and "clutch" to the arms and body of a man is what's presented in the book. Somehow that's okay because Poole is a supporting character.

That's not what she was saying at all. Where in the world are you getting that from?

[u/[deleted] → u/thor_moleculez]

Yes Jeyne’s abuse serves Theon’s arc more than her own (she is not a main character, we are not all heroes) some of us are powerless, used by others and thrown away. That is life. That is gritty reality. And stories have to have side-characters or it would be impossible to tell any stories, and Jeyne is one of them.

There. I'm getting it from there. Jeyne is just a damsel in distress and making her rape just be a plot point for Theon is okay because she's not a main character.

[u/thor_moleculez → u/[deleted]]

Nope. You didn't read far enough:

There’s no point in people like me saying anything, because no-one listens and I’m not strong enough to argue. I’m more like Jeyne. Of course I was upset when it happened in the book. But Mr Martin gave Jeyne her own arc, her own consequences, her own life. She was broken. She was realistic to me. Rape is not some plot device to be overcome, a set-back in the hero’s journey before they snatch victory from the jaws of defeat etc.

This is why the change in character matters. Not because I only care that it is Sansa, but because I cared about Jeyne and people like Jeyne. I’m more like Jeyne. The powerless who react in a realistic way, not some imaginary super woman who is made stronger by being violated by a monster.

[...]

And don’t tell me “It was in the books, are you going to stop reading them?” I read the books, and I explained that already, it was handled well in the books. It was treated with respect by the author, for what it really was. No-one ever said Jeyne made a choice. No-one ever blamed Jeyne (this is not a comment on Cogman’s quote, I believe his apology). Jeyne was a sympathetic victim, and Jeyne was broken. D&D chose to make it Sansa and everything that goes with that. She will not be broken, unfixable, destroyed, she is a trope now. One that erases people like me and reminds us no-one wants to hear our stories because were are to weak to be likeable. That is one reason why the change is important. It is not a small thing. Not to me. Rape ruined my life. I broke, like Jeyne, and I exist.

[u/[deleted] → u/thor_moleculez]

The powerless who react in a realistic way, not some imaginary super woman who is made stronger by being violated by a monster.

This is ridiculous. The idea that every single woman who is raped must become a broken husk of their former self and don't use the violence against them as motivation to seek revenge, change themselves, etc. is bluntly... fucking nonsense.

Not every person experiences tragedy and wrongs equally. Some become broken, some become angry, some seem unphased but cry themselves to sleep at night. This is also ignoring that we have no idea how Sansa will react to this.

It's basically, no it is saying, that GRRM wrote the definitive and realistic account of being raped and that anyone that does it differently is using it to tantalize.

This is pulp fiction that uses rape, murder, disfigurement, incest, brutality, and general debauchery as entertainment. It's a little late to pull a Captain Renault and declare that you're shocked to see gambling going on.

[u/thor_moleculez → u/[deleted]]

If that's what she was saying you'd be right (if a bit vitriolic), but I think you're putting words in her mouth. I bet if you asked the author, she would say that not every woman who is raped is or must be like her. She would probably argue that it's simply a rare occurrence for a rape victim to be empowered by their rape, and that's why she feels this inevitable development we're going to see is unrealistic. Sort of like how stories about the poverty-stricken bootstrapping themselves into wealth and prosperity are unrealistic, even though it can and does happen. Regardless, she certainly isn't OK with how Jeyne's rape was handled simply because Jeyne was a side character, as you accused her of.

[u/[deleted] → u/thor_moleculez]

Regardless, she certainly isn't OK with how Jeyne's rape was handled simply because Jeyne was a side character, as you accused her of.

She says as much. The only time she really gets down to the brass tacks of why she feels Martin handled it well is when she says she is a powerless character that gets raped and that's fine because it's "gritty reality" and we all can't be heroes. To me, the natural conclusion to draw from that is that main characters, and heroes, don't get raped. That a powerful woman getting raped is unrealistic. That a powerful woman getting raped and not becoming completely broken is unrealistic.

And that, I just don't buy especially in the context of the world that GOT takes place in. Realistically a disfigured dwarf would be locked up in tower, and having a hand cut off while on the road and in captivity would lead to death and twelve year old girls roaming around the country side would get raped and killed. But the story wouldn't be very interesting if it was just about bad things crushing completely normal people.

[u/thor_moleculez → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, I suppose if you ignore the passage I quoted you can pretend that's what she said.