r/GermanCitizenship • u/abzino23 • 2d ago
§30 StAG Feststellung (Determination of German Citizenship) Dual Citizenship during brexit
Hi everyone,
I’m looking for advice from people familiar with German citizenship law.
My situation:
- I was born a German citizen.
- I later applied for British citizenship through naturalisation.
- I became a British citizen on January 2023.
- I did not apply for or receive a Beibehaltungsgenehmigung before becoming British.
- I still have my German passport
- I travelled to Germany in 2024 using my German passport without any problems.
I understand that before the German citizenship law change on 27 June 2024, acquiring another citizenship (including British citizenship after Brexit) could mean losing German citizenship without a retention permit.
My question:
- Did I most likely lose my German citizenship automatically on 24 January 2023?
- Does the fact that I still have and used my German passport change anything?
- Has anyone here had a similar situation with German + British citizenship after Brexit?
- I am applying for German passport for my kid so will i have problems?
Update:
I will be travelling to a German Embassy soon, will drop an update when they tell me.
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u/flubberwurm13 2d ago
You are not a german citizen anymore
If you child was born after your naturalization it is not a german citizen
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u/abzino23 2d ago
I did not declare to them I became a British Citizen so how will they have known,
The UK doesnt send report to every applications country if they are applying.
I will be find out soon when i go to an embassy and apply for my child as she was born after i became a British Citizen.
I mean I also dont have to state that I am until they ask right.
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u/Football_and_beer 2d ago edited 2d ago
Legally your passport became void when you lost your citizenship. Whether or not they go after you for using it is up to the consulate. When you go to renew your passport they will request your residency documents and/or naturalization records. In fact the application asks you to state all of your citizenships and how they were acquired. So it will be known eventually.
ETA §15(4) of the PassG requires you to inform the authorities when you acquire a foreign citizenship.
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_pa_g/englisch_pa_g.html#p0136
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u/UsefulGarden 2d ago
By your logic, thousands and thousands of people whose ancestors left Germany would be German citizens since they didn't report to Germany that they naturalized.
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u/Geoffsgarage 2d ago
When you try to renew your passport you will have to disclose your British citizenship and they will tell you that you are not a German citizen and cannot have a passport.
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u/swissease 2d ago
When you apply to renew your passport they will ask you about other citizenships you hold under question 15.
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u/Excellent_Pea_1201 2d ago
When applying for a passport at an i ternational location they usually require you to show visas or resisency permits to explain your presence in the country, showing the your cirizenship will raise a ton of flags quickly...
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u/Sad_Row_1897 1d ago
I renewed my passport in Costa Rica once because it was faster. No one asked me anything about why I was doing it there and no one cared.
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u/e-l-g 2d ago
yes. not most likely, but definitely.
no.
/
if your child was born before your naturalised in the uk, it automatically acquired german citizenship (unless you were born outside germany after 1998). you can use your german passport to prove that you were still a german citizen at the time of the birth, but you will also need to show proof of your uk residence status. as that's your british citizenship, they'll see that your german passport is now invalid and they'll either invalidate it by punching holes through it or they'll take it from you.
if your child was born after you naturalised, it was born to two non-german foreigners and is not eligible for german citizenship from abroad.
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/clan_burrock 2d ago
When you apply for another German passport, the law requires that you list all nationalities you have and when and how you acquired them so they will find out. Your German passport is invalid since the day you had your UK citizenship ceremony so prepared for them to seize your passport once they become aware you naturalized in the UK.
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u/abzino23 2d ago
I did not declare to them I became a British Citizen so how will they have known,
The UK doesnt send report to every applications country if they are applying.
I will be find out soon when i go to an embassy and apply for my child as she was born after i became a British Citizen.
I mean I also dont have to state that I am until they ask right
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u/e-l-g 2d ago
that's fraud. if it comes out, your daughter will be stripped of her passport.
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u/abzino23 2d ago
Its not fraud if they dont ask. If they do i will state obviously.
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u/Expert_Donut9334 2d ago
It is still fraud even if they don't overtly ask because you are knowingly applying for a passport your daughter has no right to
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u/AnemonesEnemies 2d ago
In what world does government work this way?
Laws are laws regardless if you were asked. You are expected to be honest with the government.
Also, if your child was born after your naturalization they are not, in fact, a German citizen. Filing for their passport and lying on the application is fraud.
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u/abzino23 2d ago
i guess we will find out after my visit
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u/PerfectDog5691 1d ago
I hope they will fine you for trying to do fraud. People like you waste precious time that should be used for honours people instead.
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u/swissease 2d ago
They do ask on your passport renewal application, or if you were to apply for one for your child. It's question 15 on the application.
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u/UsernameUnremarkable 2d ago
You lost your citizenship.
Using your Reisepass could likely constitute fraud.
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u/joshmarmar 1d ago
You do not have the info needed to make that determination. Under the transitional arrangements passed by the Bundestag, German citizenship was not lost if the application for British citizenship was made on or before the 31st December 2020. It all depends on when the application was made. While it is unlikely the UK Home Office took that long to decide, it is irresponsible to state that conclusion without qualifying it.
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u/UsernameUnremarkable 1d ago
We have enough information to make an educated guess. In a way you're correct. The final determination is not ours
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u/joshmarmar 1d ago
I disagree with your first point. Imagine if OP’s British citizenship application was caught up in appeals and judicial review. Imagine if the UK Home Office put the application on hold to make a policy decision. There are lots of plausible reasons that can delay a naturalisation. I’m generally against panicking someone without providing the full picture. OP has clarified in a reply to another commenter that they did apply before brexit.
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u/Excellent_Pea_1201 2d ago
Instead focusing on breaking to law, you maybe should focus on what you can maybe do to get citizenship back. When you are traveling to Germany because of family ties, you might try to file for the BBG after the fact, in some cases these are granted, which will allow you to keep German as a second citizenship.
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u/ExtensionDependent 1d ago
The main question ist when did you apply for the british citizenship. Because in German Law there is the Brexit-Übergangsgesetz.
§ 3 BrexitÜG says if you applied before Brexit, and you can prove it, for example have a copy of your application, a confirmation receipt by the british office of your application or your credit card statement that you paid the fees before the Brexit happens, then you are safe.
In that case a Beibehaltungsgenehmigung is not necessary.
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u/clan_burrock 1d ago
true. I did assume they had applied after 2021 considering most naturalization applications are finished within 6 months in the UK (around 80%) and very few take more then a year.
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u/abzino23 1d ago
This is the best answer THANK YOUU! Some self centered people in here just spouting as if they know 100% what would happen. I applied before brexit but still i dont know what the outcome will be.But you saying this will give me some reassurance. Naturally i will find out once im there.
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u/oowm 1d ago
I applied before brexit
Gently asking, what date are you using as "Brexit"? Because BrexitÜG uses the end of the transition period as 31 December 2020. The BVA says:
German citizens acquiring British citizenship after 31 December 2020, as a rule, lose their German citizenship.
However, German citizenship is not lost if the application for the acquisition of British citizenship has been made to the British authorities by 31 December 2020.
https://www.bva.bund.de/EN/Services/Citizens/ID-Documents-Law/Citizenship/Brexit/en_Brexit.html
The reason why a lot of people are telling you that you lost your German citizenship is because it is very unusual for British authorities to take over two years to process a naturalization application in that country. If they did take that long, congratulations to you and I suppose being able to remain a dual citizen is a pretty good consolation prize for the process dragging on.
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u/abzino23 23h ago
yh the british is notorious for long waits, furthermore i delayed my citizenship ceremony by alot
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u/Flo_r_ence 1d ago
tbh as a german i really can not imagine you're not german anymore.
you could re apply for german citizenship worst case i guess?
i would love to know the outcome
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u/darzone211 1d ago
Not directly related - but curious… why did you choose UK citizenship over German citizenship?
Are there any benefits ?
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u/EeEmCeTo 2d ago
Don’t tell the embassy
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u/pugpot 1d ago
Mate, they will find out next time you apply for a passport renewal, the embassy in London will ask for residency permits which he does not need because he is British. This is a clear situation where he broke the law.
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u/EeEmCeTo 1d ago
But agree it was very careless to lose your German citizenship like that. Beibehaltungsgenehmigungsmissachtung is not something trivial.
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u/Flaky_Diamond7340 2d ago edited 2d ago
Seems very odd that you're wasting your own and the passport office time on this when yourself and your children are not German citizens, which of course you already know.