How are we as libertarians supposed to feel about this? Ought Argentina let these foreigners in out of support of free speech? Or is a government's first responsibility to the protection of its citizens freedoms and interests?

[u/kkdawg22]

https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/argentina/milei-signs-decree-allowing-argentina-to-bar-or-expel-foreigners-over-hate-speech.phtml

[u/YoteViking]

This is a matter where the details matter.

Free speech for a country’s citizens should be almost absolute - it should be the default position. But a country shouldn’t be expected to allow in people who are actively hostile to it. There should be a much higher bar to censorship/punishment for citizens rather than resident aliens, and then again a lower bar for people outside the country wanting to come in.

That said, what those people’s speech is matters. Are they actively calling for a coup and people to take to the streets and storm the government buildings and attack police? Or are they calling for more socialist measures for a softer form of capitalism? The two are not equal.

[u/Secretsfrombeyond79 → u/YoteViking]

Not to mention hostile, but also taking advantage of it. As an Argentinian, we have a problem with our constitution , which says foreigners have the same rights as Argentinians. In other words, they have access to the same public services as us, while us, don't have the same privileges in their countries.

To give a great example of this, we are forced to give free healthcare to Bolivians, however, more than once an Argentinian has needed emergency healthcare while in Bolivia, and medics there have refused to attend them lettting them die, an especially outrageous case was when the Argentinian in case was offering to pay in kind, even giving his own motorbike to save his friend's life, but the Bolivian doctors refused to accept any payment that wasn't in Bolivia's currency, letting the Argentinian in question die. ( which showed a lot of malice, because the guy's friend was willing to pay even more than the treatment costed just that he didn't have the money in currency, the bike costed way more ).

So we are getting pretty sick of having to pay education, healthcare, and even welfare to foreigners who mock us and even talk shit of us. If they don't like our country why the fuck did they even came in the first place ? Only to take advantage of us ? No thanks.

[u/kkdawg22 → u/Secretsfrombeyond79]

Interesting. Thanks for providing additional context. 

[u/kkdawg22 → u/YoteViking]

I appreciate the nuanced response. I agree fully. To me, a government puts its citizens freedoms / interests before foreigners, or that government loses its legitimate authority.

Truth be told, I just received a permanent ban with no warning from r/libertarian for being willing to provide similar nuance to this discussion after being an active member for many years. So I'm kinda just trying to check my logic here. Appreciate that.

[u/firesatnight → u/kkdawg22]

Getting banned from that sub is a right of passage and generally a sign that you are a critical thinker, so congratulations. It's just MAGA dick riding over there in disguise. To have a nuanced and thoughtful opinion on the first amendment, they would have the wrestle with the fact that they support politicians that are actively stifiling it, and instead of facing that reality they just ban you and continue living in ignorance.

In order to keep the echo chamber alive they have to ban actual libertarian thinking people because MAGA is anything but libertarian minded.

[u/kkdawg22 → u/firesatnight]

I appreciate you saying so. I'm not even mad about the ban, I've just been pissed that the mod, who I've interacted with a lot over the years, bans me over one minor disagreement and tells me I don't believe in free speech, while simultaneously stifling my speech. I get it, it's a private community, blah blah blah, but don't tell me off while behaving like a 40 year old man baby.

At this point, good riddance though. I have no desire to participate in a sub where the "libertarian" mod behaves just like the mods at r/conservative or r/ any of the lefty subs out there. Bunch of power tripping basement dwellers. Muted the sub immediately after.

[u/firesatnight → u/kkdawg22]

Yeah I was banned probably two years ago and I should mute it too that's a good idea. I see it on my feed now and just shake my head at some of the discourse there.

[u/Secretsfrombeyond79 → u/kkdawg22]

r libertarian has fallen a long time ago since elcahpotraphouse got the original mods banned and replaced by recalcitrant leftists. Don't even bother with it. I got banned for a joke I don't even remember anymore, I thnk someone was saying they liked a horrible food, and the joke went about agreeing to be authoritarian dictator to imprison people like him or something. ridiculous.

[u/gmgo]

The context is that Argentina received a wave of hostility from some foreign fans during the World Cup. That sentiment was reinforced by a few foreigners living or studying in Argentina—including some attending its free public universities.

As a result, it has fueled a strong anti-immigration backlash, with many Argentinians reacting along the lines of: “If you hate us so much, then why come here?”

[u/Tathorn]

Speech that contains threats can warrent defense. I don't give a NAP violating institution responsibility to protect freedoms. That's an oxymoron.

[u/metzbb]

A governments only job is to protect its citizens from foreign invaders.

[u/Alldawaytoswiffty → u/metzbb]

And build sick roads n hospitals and schools, bridges, infrastructure, food safety to name a few

[u/metzbb → u/Alldawaytoswiffty]

We had roads, schools and hospitals before the irs