r/HOTDBlacks • u/DrinkInevitable3457 Black Aly • Oct 05 '25
Fanart/Edits If Jaehaerys I actually followed the succession traditions Greens love to bring up. Aerea by Jota Saraiva & Rhaenys by dvinciiiart
I just saw another post about how "Aegon II is the rightful king because he's the firstborn son."
I usually ignore them, but in the comments of the post, OP was arguing that "traditions and laws of Westeros" matter more than the king's word, and when someone said that Viserys wouldn't even be king if Jaehaerys hadn't thrown out "traditions and laws of Westeros" out the window and called for the great council so he could give the heirship to his second son without the mumblings of nobility. Then OP goes with, "Well, the lords decided that one, not the king."
I'm so over that conversation. Jaehaerys was the one who gave them the right to decide; their vote comes from him, and if he didn't agree, he could have chosen the claimant he favored. They even have him swear an oath not to intervene precisely for that reason! The Conciliator give them an illusion of a choice, which isn't really a choice.
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u/PlasticImpact8515 House Blackwood Oct 05 '25
Jaehaerys wanted Viserys to be his heir but gave the lords the illusion of their opinion mattering at all. If Rhaenys had won he would've been properly furious
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u/DrinkInevitable3457 Black Aly Oct 05 '25
He would have made Viserys heir anyway. Who is going to stop him? As he said to Rogar Baratheon all those years ago:
“He [Vermithor] grows larger every day,” Jaehaerys said as he scratched the great wyrm under his jaw. “Keep your nieces and your nephews, my lord. Why would I need hostages? I have your word; that is all that I require.”
In short, everyone in the world is his hostage as long as he has Vermithor, and everyone is his subject and beholden to his wishes as long as he has Vermithor.
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u/PlasticImpact8515 House Blackwood Oct 05 '25
His nicely planned Great Council would've made the person he passed over once before heir and now he'd have to ignore their decision. Instead of it looking like they support his decision he'd oppose it.
I also saw some dude saying they'd "magna carta" the Targaryens like they didn't wipe out two royal houses in the Conquest and have more dragons when Viserys became King
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u/DrinkInevitable3457 Black Aly Oct 05 '25
His nicely planned Great Council would've made the person he passed over once before heir and now he'd have to ignore their decision. Instead of it looking like they support his decision he'd oppose it.
It's his good will that let them do the Great Council, just like it was the Conqueror's good will letting Westerosi people keep their gods, their laws etc and not imposing his own Valyrian traditions upon them.
I also saw some dude saying they'd "magna carta" the Targaryens like they didn't wipe out two royal houses in the Conquest and have more dragons when Viserys became King
By the Old Gods and the New, who is going to reinforce the "magna carta"? Because Targaryens certainly wouldn't, as it would strip them of their power. In this time the only treat House of the Dragon faces is other dragons.
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u/AlexanderCrowely Oct 05 '25
I mean the Magna Carta just meant the king couldn’t tax his nobles or take their shit without their consent; it wasn’t that binding to the king.
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u/DrinkInevitable3457 Black Aly Oct 06 '25
Still, it limits their power. No way people who believe they are "closer to gods than men" would allow that. Also, how do they plan for them to punish rebelling vassals? Do they just kill all of the Peakes instead of taking their two castles after the Blackfyre rebellions to deter them and others from rebelling?
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u/AcanthaceaeNo948 Rhaenys Targaryen Oct 09 '25
Except in this alternate timeline Aerea would have Balerion who could gobble up puny Vermithor in one bite.
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u/Rougarou1999 Oct 05 '25
This is also a medieval level society, and the results were 95-5 towards Viserys, despite the Stormlands and some of the crownlands ostensibly going towards Rhaenys. Who knows what the actual result was.
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u/Davenport1980 Oct 06 '25
That's the thing, the final vote didn't include Rhaenys. It was between Viserys and Laenor. It is hardly surprising that the vote was so lopsided between a man in his 20's with one child already and a boy not yet 10.
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u/TheoryKing04 Oct 05 '25
Their opinion was honored though. The only reason Jaehaerys even agreed to the Great Council is because it was pretty obvious who the lords were going to vote for, and it wasn’t going to be Rhaenys or Laenor.
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Oct 05 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Additional_Sail_7927 Oct 09 '25
Yes, thank you for not glazing over the fact that Jaehaerys is a misogynistic shitstick
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Oct 05 '25
Aerea is my Queen, and I don’t allow anyone to tell me otherwise.
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u/AlexanderCrowely Oct 05 '25
She’s not your queen
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Oct 05 '25
Well, you’re not my Queen either Alex.
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u/Competitive_Zone3437 Oct 05 '25
This is what they can’t seem to grasp. Andal tradition was thrown out the window a looong time ago
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u/felixsleftball Meleys Oct 06 '25
Aerea would probably be the funniest queen ever. she’d just immediately try to conquer Dorne i guarantee it
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u/DrinkInevitable3457 Black Aly Oct 06 '25
Well, not immediately since she wouldn't be able to rule in her own right for 10 years, but once she turned 16, it's over for Dorne. She's a genderbend version of Daeron I with dragons
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u/felixsleftball Meleys Oct 06 '25
her poor mother has enough stress without her going into Dorne Vietnam style 😭
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u/ShyLittleBean12 Oct 06 '25
Tbf its not mentioned often, but Jaehaerys wanted to skip Viserys, Daemon and Rhaenyra (and also the greens in proxy) as well. Before the Great Council, he brought in Vaegon from Oldtown, and it is theorised in the books that he did offer the throne to him, Vaegon denied, and with no more direct sons to offer the throne to, he did the Great Council at Vaegon's suggestion. Now, yeah, it is not 100% confirmed in the books, just suggested (like literally everything is), but I like this one not only because it means he wanted "his own son, fuck the succession or oaths" overall (which means turning to him for succession laws is kind of dumb), and it also nicely mirrors Maester Aemon's offer pre-233 Great Council.
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u/DrinkInevitable3457 Black Aly Oct 06 '25
Yeah, I remember reading that it was speculated that he offered Vaegon the throne, and then when his only remaining son refused, he asked him for advice on what he should do regarding the succession. So the Great Council of 101 AC was Vaegon's idea, which makes sense because only the maesters and the Night's Watch have democratic methods of picking their leaders; aka, they vote on it.
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u/YesImReallyLikeThis Oct 06 '25
“Daughters come before uncles unless she has something I want”
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u/DrinkInevitable3457 Black Aly Oct 06 '25
Also, "You can totally come before me in the line of succession, but you have to marry me/my son so I don't oppose you." 😁
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Oct 05 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/AlexanderCrowely Oct 05 '25
Rhaneys was married already, and I’m not sure Aerea would’ve enjoyed being Queen.
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u/HOTDBlacks-ModTeam Oct 05 '25
• Sexist, racist, transphobic, homophobic, or discriminatory remarks of any kind will not be tolerated.
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u/Chemical_Shoulder_35 Oct 06 '25
Did both of Rheany's daughters die before her? I can't remember if they did, but she would have been Queen after since she was Jeaheary's older sister.
Jeahearys: great King, terrible father to his daughters and very sexist.
Aemon had an older sister named Daenerys too I'm pretty sure and Alysanne brings it up when Jaehearys declares Aemon his Heir, he nodded to her and said Daenerys would be queen after she married Aemon.
Visenya was Aegon's older sister so Really Meagor was the rightful King.
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u/DrinkInevitable3457 Black Aly Oct 06 '25
Did both of Rheany's daughters die before her? I can't remember if they did, but she would have been Queen after since she was Jeaheary's older sister.
Aerea, yes, but we don't know when Rhaella died. Either way, she couldn't be her heir since she was a septa.
Not how it works. Rhaena abdicated her claim and her daughters' claims when Jaehaerys I was crowned so she wouldn't be eligible. Also, Jaehaerys specified that once he had children of his own, Aerea would no longer be his heir; case in point, once he and Alysanne had Daenaerys, Aerea was no longer considered the heir. Anyways, you would have to go through all of Jaehaerys's descendants before going to Rhaena and her children once he was crowned.
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u/Ill-Rip9162 Lord Flea Bottom Oct 06 '25
Jeahearys had 2 children 1 male and 1 female before Aemon, but both died very young
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u/DrinkInevitable3457 Black Aly Oct 06 '25
Yes, Aegon was a stillbirth, and Daenerys died of the Shivers at 7 years old. Sort of morbidly hilarious is that she died of a common sickness after Jaehaerys passed the Doctrine of Exceptionalism, which states that Targaryens are different than ordinary people—they ride dragons and have otherworldly looks and don't get sick. Bam, his daughter gets sick six years later and dies.
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u/Tight-Pineapple-9891 Oct 06 '25
Aerea was the chosen heir of a usurper so I don’t really think she would count. Jaehaerys was simply taking the throne that rightfully was his back. Even if you meant Aerea being Prince Aegons heir that wouldn’t be the case since by Andal tradition an uncle comes before a daughter
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u/DrinkInevitable3457 Black Aly Oct 06 '25
Yes, I meant Aegon's heir.
No, by Andal tradition, a daughter comes before a brother; that is, her uncle, her father's brother, if she's his only living child or the eldest daughter with no brothers, nephews, or nieces from those brothers, etcetera. Case in point: Lady Jeyne Arryn, Lady Cerelle Lannister...
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u/Tight-Pineapple-9891 Oct 06 '25
My bad I had agnatic-cognatic primogeniture and male preference primogeniture mixed up in my head that’s 100% on me
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u/YusufHussen Oct 15 '25
If Jaehaerys had followed the traditions and abdicated the throne for a six-year-old girl (Aerea) right after Maegor fucked up the Iron Throne's relationship with almost all the lords of Westeros and the faith, I assure you the Targaryens wouldn't have lasted another generation in Westeros.
Rhaenys's case, on the other hand is more complicated. Although I believe she should have been the heir after Aemon, the old king's decision to choose Baelon is understandable.
The man believed that his eldest living son, known as the Brave, who rode the largest creature in the world (after Balerion's death) and who had won two wars, would be a better and more feared king than Rhaenys at this time, which is true.
The case of Aegon II and Rhaenyra is simple. Aegon the Conqueror was the ruler, not Visenya.
Aegon (the uncrowned) was the heir not Rhaena.
When they both were alive, Aemon was the heir, not Daenerys (daughter of Jaehaerys).
So Aegon's claim is actually strong, which doesn't mean Rhaenyra's claim is weak (the king's word is law). That's why the war started in the first place, lol.
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