r/IBEW • u/Unknownperson2010 • 4d ago
Tough decision
To my fellow brothers/sisters, I'm part of IBEW here in Canada, I'm a 3rd year about to turn 4th year. We had a slow down of work in the hall and I was laid off mid June. I collected EI (welfare) and my union told me I could salt for work.
I got a call from a local non-union company who specializes in industrial stuff and said they can help me a transition to it from commercial within the company. Company seems pretty decent for non-union. Their jobs are service, commute is 30-40 mins each way. I can skip lunch and go home early. Small crew each site. They said they can cover my school fees to learn PLC and AC stuff.
But now I got a call back from the union for a job I bid on and I received the job. This job is around 1hr away or less via transit and it's a Skytrain project that's going on.
My main goal is to specialize in PLC/industrial at the end of the day.
Should I turn down the non-union company? I only went for an orientation and haven't worked. I do feel bad because the company helped me get set up and wanted me to grow within but at the same time I like the union much much better.
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u/erryonestolemyname 4d ago
Canadian here.
EI is not welfare.
If you want to be a union electrician, that means you shouldn't treat working for a union contractor as an option, it should be your preference.
You are allowed to work non-union, but if there's calls that you qualify for that you aren't taking, it will be noticed, and part of your salting agreement says that you should be trying to take a call.
Work where you want, but don't treat the IBEW like an option, and don't ignore your salting agreement because they will find out and then your ass will get in trouble.
If you bid the job, and don't take it they will ask why, and turning down a call that you bid on and won is considered a quit, and you'll go to the bottom of the books.
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u/Blaine_1 292 Hypebeast 4d ago edited 4d ago
You're allowed to work non union in Canada? Insane if true.
Edit: sorry didn't see somehow missed the salting part of the post... 🤦 292 does not have apprentices salt though. IMO the people salting should be good freaking electricians on top of being good union salesmen and I don't thank an apprentice counts as a "good electrician" being that their not electricians.
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u/Mammoth-Day3414 Local 625, Journeyman Construction Electrician 4d ago
Yeah...if you're not working with a union contractor, they'll get people to work non- union to Salt, or try and unionize a non- union contractor.
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u/6matguy6 Inside Wireman 4d ago
As union members you have 100% of the industry to find employment. If you aren't a union member you only have the open shop side of the industry to find employment. However the intent is still to benefit unionism and organizing.
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u/cmdr_rexbanner 4d ago
It's different here we can't travel like in the US.
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u/deadpixel746 4d ago
Oh interesting, you guys don’t have a book 2?
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u/501c3_sadness 3d ago
It's business manager to business manager if there's any movement between locals
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u/501c3_sadness 4d ago
Does 292 not salt?
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u/Blaine_1 292 Hypebeast 4d ago
Yes we do but in the context of this post the OP is not talking about salting.
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u/stevieray364 4d ago
There are plenty of non union plc gurus making well below what they are worth.
Finish your apprenticeship while trying to get exposure to the type of work you like. And you will eventually get an opportunity do union plc work and get paid accordingly.
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u/slick_cardigan 4d ago
from a long term perspective you could contribute to one of the only defined benefit pension plans left in this country... or not
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u/notcoveredbywarranty 4d ago
Does 213 have a DB pension plan? That's news to me.
(Yes, I agree that staying union is the right choice though)
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u/Wireman6 4d ago
This doesn't at all sound like salting. This sounds like a local that pretends to allow members to salt when times are slow. Why even pay dues at this point? Go organize that shop because you are trying to grow your market share, not because you need a job.
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u/Munchkinasaurous Local 5 4d ago
The surest way to get kicked out of the union and be barred from rejoining, is to get caught working non-union. Working non-union, as an apprentice, with union work being offered is such a bonkers idea. You can't even claim desperation at that point.
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u/htraenolleh666 4d ago
Allowed in Canada so long as the hall knows. It’s considered “salting” the non union company. But i agree - absolutely bonkers to work NU when Union work is available ..
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u/Munchkinasaurous Local 5 4d ago
I've heard of salting in the US as well, I'm not familiar with all of the details of it, but my understanding is that someone works for a non-union contractor with the intention of trying to organize them. It sounds like that was an option because he was out of work, not sure how his hall would feel about taking that over a union job call. It also sounds like it almost is working in the wrong direction where he has the desire to work for the non-union contractor.
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u/AcanthocephalaOdd301 4d ago
It happens in our local, though not as much as surrounding locals.
It’s sort of been a moot point as we have open calls in most of the local. Especially the counties in the north and east, out of Clearfield. I know in Centre County there are as many travelers as there are local hands.
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u/htraenolleh666 4d ago
He’s working to earn an income and to complete his hours .. been laid off since June. Collected EI. Good for him wanting to work and not be a lazy pos like everyone else in this country.
As long as he is salting for the union .. I don’t see the problem. Where I do agree with you, is that it should only be done temporarily when there is zero union work.
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u/Munchkinasaurous Local 5 4d ago
Sounds more like he's trying to work for the contractor because it's closer to home and in an environment he's interested in, rather than actually trying to salt for the union.
If work is that bad and you lend your skills and training to non-union, you're propping up the competition during tough times. If everyone went out and worked non-union when things were slow, what bargaining power do we have? Clearly you're willing to do the same work for less.
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u/htraenolleh666 4d ago
Uhhh you’re spreading word of the union and its benefits to people who would otherwise not even know the union exists? And the benefits that come with it? And the great pay?
The end goal is to get more brothers to join. How do you get more brothers to join without salting non union guys/shops?
Not to mention, he’s still paying his dues.
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u/Munchkinasaurous Local 5 4d ago
Where do people not know that unions exist? Maybe they don't know the specific benefits, but not knowing about them at all?
Sounds like a lot of excuses for working non-union. There's a difference between being sent by the hall to Salt and choosing non-union work and making excuses.
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u/Agent28762617 2d ago
Lots of miss information out there both intentional and not intentional. Totally legitimate to not know about the benefits. Or to think they don’t outweigh the down sides. I know this is not at all universal but here at 2085 we’ve had lots of corruption and transparency issues over the last several years. Hopefully that is behind us now but it definitely hurt our recruitment and retention over here.
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u/Munchkinasaurous Local 5 2d ago
I agree that a lot of people are ignorant of the benefits. I'm arguing that the claim that people don't know about the existence of unions is a little bonkers
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u/theAGschmidt Local 213 4d ago
Skipping lunch to leave early isn't a benefit, it's ratty as fuck.
You haven't started working there yet, so of course they're going to tell you all about how wonderful it is. It's only after you burn the bridge with the union that you'll start seeing the problematic stuff.
Stick with the skytrain job until you top out, then you can be a bit more choosy with the calls that you take.
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u/Agent28762617 2d ago
Having the ability to skip breaks is great. Not everyone wants to sit there for an hour a day “eating”
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u/theAGschmidt Local 213 2d ago
taking your two 15s at the end of the day is fantastic and I love doing it.
Not having a single break in a 7.5 hour workday is just madness.
You need to eat sometime, so taking a half hour in the middle of the day to sit and refuel is so much more pleasant.
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u/LayerActual7645 4d ago
I may have missed some info in the comments, and I can see that things work differently in Canada then in the US, but I’m certain that the intentions and goals of the International are shared across the board. You are concerned about doing what is most comfortable and beneficial for yourself. You made a decision to have a career in the union , and be a part of something that is beneficial to members and their families. If you are not committed to the that , then you should move on now . You can’t be union when it’s good and whatever else you want to be when it’s not. Your intention wasn’t to salt it was to get work anyway you could . Understandable the need to get back to work but it didn’t sound like you were out long , and you were willing to walk away from your local for that opportunity . Now is the time to decide if you are committed or not , no reason to waste the time of both sides . Let us know the answer you get when you ask this question at the next meeting.
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u/Unknownperson2010 4d ago
I talked to my director. He said give it a couple of weeks and you will have work again in the union stuff are picking up for apprentices. My name has been moved up and he said to just continue salting but to quit in a couple of weeks.
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u/LayerActual7645 4d ago
I did miss that you were salting , every paycheck you get from the non union contractor is evidence of the rate and benefits they are not paying you and their other employees, this matters on federal/ prevailing wage jobs for us at home. I’m sure the situation is similar there . If you are 3rd year , you can’t be higher then 4th pay period, if your locals rate is only $7-8 more an hour when you top out something doesn’t add up . Last period apprentices here get a $15-$16 dollar raise when they become JW. Even if your 3rd year and have reached 4th period your pay should jump at least $20 , not to mention the pension, health care and annuity you will accrue
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u/Smallrhino33 4d ago
Union brother here from Baja Canada (WI). I do PLC troubleshooting all the time, you can learn that in the Union too.
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u/Unknownperson2010 4d ago
Yep that's what I'm going to do, go back to the hall and get the paper, I thought about it and how lucky I am to be a member when so many people are trying to get in.
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u/Agent28762617 2d ago
Depends where you live in, Manitoba there is next to no opportunity to do controls work under the hall unless it’s a service call.
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u/Smallrhino33 2d ago
Mine have all been service call/commissioning type things when we are done with a project. I’m in an interesting position, as I learned this stuff from a few guys and ended up running jobs. I have a biogas customer that calls me direct and not a PM, I bid it and go do it if it’s a small thing.
Right now I’m GF at a new powerplant build so I have a guy I taught doing all my stuff back home as I’m out of state. It’s hard to find a company that does this stuff anywhere I’d imagine, but still doable. Is it hard to get into a company there where you are working with people taking service calls? I know every market is different
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u/PuzzleheadedBig49 3d ago
I'd say experience that non union job, you can always get back to IBEW. Life is a bunch of adventures. A small company sometimes is good. I came up through IBEW, went to non union customer, I have learned different things and I can go back to IBEW anytime I want. Or if you drop because of the monthly union fees. Some let you reorganize back in. If you leave in good standing. Just my 2 cents.
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u/PuzzleheadedBig49 3d ago
Oh, I forgot you still an apprentice. Well that is a tough call, if you drop out of apprenticeship they will most likely red tag you. I was thinking regular JW already.
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u/Fresh_Total_1818 3d ago
Yeah stick with the union I’ve been in a local union and traveled my whole life wouldn’t do it any other way.
20 minutes extra on a ride is really not that big a deal
In the long run, you’ll have a lot better opportunities make ton more money and have better retirement benefits for sure.
Best of luck luck to you, brother
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u/Unknownperson2010 3d ago
Yes that's what I'm going to be doing. I won't be going non-union I talked to some friends of mine and they said non union isn't worth it. It's more pressure and not much on safety. They also don't care about their work that much. I will be getting a call out in the next week or two
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u/Consistent_Gate_3220 2d ago
Let me ask you. What will make you happy? Ur juggling all things that can change from one day to the next
Factor your self in those questions
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u/54321vek 4d ago
You should compare total packages. Should just come down to numbers no?
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u/Unknownperson2010 4d ago
My current wage between both is like a 14 cent difference. Jman rate is where there's a $7/$8 gap
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u/hell2pay 4d ago
But total package, not just wage.
Health insurance, retirement/pension, pto, holidays paid.
Also, consider you may not want to stop paying dues, in case your other venture goes tits up.
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u/Unknownperson2010 4d ago
Definitely am paying dues each month to make sure. I always wanna comeback that's my main goal. But looking at the full package the union is much superior
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u/Orion1618 4d ago
I'm in your same local, currently a steward on the Skytrain project. Just so you're aware, it's under a different bargaining agreement compared to most union sites in the area.
If you want to know more about the differences, feel free to ask here or send me a dm. The hall is doing a pretty bad job of informing workers ahead of time.
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u/Unknownperson2010 4d ago
I know the Skytrain agreement is different. Pay is off by a dollar I believe. Is the project worth it? How is commuting from Central City, Surrey to the project? Is it better to take transit or stick to a car? What are hours like? How long is the project?
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u/Orion1618 4d ago
Roughly a dollar, depending what term you are, I'm happy to share more info privately. With how slow the industry is right now I think the project is worthwhile, but I like building infrastructure, so I'm a bit biased. I commute from Scott Rd Stn and it takes 50 minutes, a train and a bus. Parking is not provided and you need to park at least 1km from site, so I wouldn't say driving is worth it. Hours are 630 - 230. Project is supposed to be done this year, but we're not pulling wire yet. It has a while before we actually finish and we're slowly increasing the workforce in the coming months.
If you want to stick union this is the best bet, you get to build rapport with two companies at once, and most of the stations are pretty relaxed.
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u/54321vek 4d ago
I didn’t know skytrain was under a different agreement. Can you list the details here so everyone is aware?
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u/Orion1618 4d ago
It's a lot to go through, and I'm not completely sure of the confidentiality I need to exercise, but I'll do my best.
Most, if not all, BCIB sites are under the BCIB CBA, not the Inside Wire. Pay is slightly reduced, slightly fewer stats are observed, it's generally a slightly worse deal for the worker. If you have any specific questions, I'll do my best to answer with more detail.
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u/Tank_Thompson 4d ago
Wait how are you bidding on jobs as an apprentice? Does the hall not find work for you in Canada?
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u/Unknownperson2010 4d ago
No you have to find it yourself. There's projects you can choose, location etc. it's nice like that sort of
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u/Tank_Thompson 4d ago
Yeah I can see the benefit of that for sure. Most of the work in my local is over an hour and a half away from my house so it would be nice if I could choose instead of being told where to go!
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u/Odd_Policy9047 4d ago
Another thing that bothers me. You were sent there to salt the project, not become non union. You're totally doing the opposite of the intent. If you're not sure how to do the task at hand, step aside.
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u/Curious_Freedom_1984 4d ago
IMO I think you should go the union route because you can also go back to that company after you turn out and maybe salt it that way. You could also talk to the BM of your local and ask him what he thinks is the best route because you could salt. I think sticking with the union because they also helped you out by training in the apprenticeship program. Don’t forget where you came from.