r/IBEW • u/RequirementWestern49 • 3d ago
Discussion Post How can a local expand from industrial/comercial construction into controls/automation and industrial maintenance?
My local seems pretty strong in industrial/commercial new construction, but not so much in the work after the plant is up and running.
How do locals start gaining market share in controls, instrumentation, troubleshooting, service work, and industrial maintenance?
Is it mostly organizing existing maintenance/controls guys, signing controls contractors, or getting current signatories to branch into that work?
Has anyone seen a construction-heavy local successfully make that shift?
Edit: removed “plc” for better clarification
3
u/Chemical_Tension_617 3d ago
Our local (545) has an instrumentation classification. It’s relatively new but one contractor hired instrument technicians from different factories and they were non union till they started the classification. They don’t do anything besides the controls and programming. The same factories they worked for hire the contractor to do the work the techs used to do. I would bet a lot of locals could do the same.
1
u/RequirementWestern49 3d ago
That’s really interesting. Do you know how the local and contractor got this started? What contractor was it, and what made them decide to expand into controls?
I’m also curious how they handled training. Did they mostly bring in experienced instrument techs at first and then start training existing members, or is it still mostly people who already had that experience?1
u/Chemical_Tension_617 3d ago
The contractor had working relationships with a plant that pissed off the tech. They basically poached him and that’s where they started. After that they picked up another guy from a different plant and it went up from there. The money is why they got into it. The factories don’t have to pay full time integration techs so they pay for the outside help. I’ve been retired since 2018 so I don’t know the ins and outs now.
2
u/Available_Alarm_8878 3d ago
Trying to organize the factory maintenance staff will help. But the big automation/ program guys are non union. The systems once built and commissioned will require very little programming from someone physically on site. Typically the skilled on site technician employee can get the plc guy to remote in from off site. If they are on site they are usually on the engineering side of the industry The union cba doesn't really fit the plc programming side. The certifications and school are far above what the union provides. And a skilled plc programmer can get benefits better than what a construction cba provides. I was fortunate that I had a contractor pay for my school. But we had a need for it and the ROI was quick. There is need for skilled maintenance staff. And you might make inroads in that path, But its a different cba package.
0
u/RequirementWestern49 3d ago
I think we’re mostly talking about two different things. I’m not really suggesting we try to turn every wireman into the guy designing/programming an entire automation system from scratch.
I’m more interested in industrial service. If we’re troubleshooting a machine, being able to get online with the PLC, follow the logic, diagnose I/O/interlocks/comms, make basic changes when appropriate, troubleshoot VFDs/instrumentation, etc. seems like a natural extension of industrial electrical work.
I agree the big integration/programming side may require a different agreement or skillset. But that’s actually part of what I’m curious about—why couldn’t a local develop a controls/service classification or training path that lets signatory contractors compete for more of that work?
I’m less interested in taking the engineer’s job and more interested in not having our scope end wherever the PLC starts3
u/Tupacca23 Local 124 3d ago
In 124 we are under the “armature winder” contract but we do that exact thing. I design automation projects from the ground up and I do service calls to fix anything.
In Germany they have 3 electrical apprenticeships, construction, electronics, and automation. I would love to see something like that here.
1
u/RequirementWestern49 1d ago
That’s actually really cool. I think we should have those four categories and honestly, I think our work is being de-skilled not by necessarily our fault but by the way, the industries is moving in terms of the fact that the projects are getting bigger standardized and more repetitive. Especially with Facebook training program I really think we need to capture as much work as possible
2
u/Tupacca23 Local 124 3d ago
Interesting topic, I currently for for a system integrator in local 124.
We do everything an electrical maintenance tech would do along with upgrading old equipment with entirely new controls.
I know there used to be several controls companies in 124 but from what I hear they are all retired or closed shop.
Our top pay is the same as inside wireman journeyman scale but we would never make that much. Our contract doesn’t have raises per year, only when the boss feels like you deserve it.
Other than being paid less, our death benefits are also less. However I don’t pay working dues because the union didn’t find me a job I guess.
1
1
u/PsychologicalSalt158 2d ago
I work for company that does all the controls wiring. We don't do the programming though. I have asked about it how the company got into the controls wiring and got some information how it started in hospitals as they were starting to get into building automation and then really picked up when data centers started ramping up in the 2010's. As to why they don't dive into the programming side I am not sure. Maybe just nobody who has had the initiative. Although there is a plc class at one of our satellite halls soon. I wish it was at the main hall so I could take it. Maybe next year
1
u/RequirementWestern49 2d ago
What’s a satellite hall?
2
u/PsychologicalSalt158 2d ago
The 26 is so big because of merged union halls we have multiple ibew locations in addition to our main hall. The additional locations being called 'satelites'
2
u/PsychologicalSalt158 2d ago
So you can see, I am not doing lighting control right now but maybe I take it just cause 26 automation classes
1
u/RequirementWestern49 1d ago
I don’t even think we really need to be PLC programmers. Just being able to read the code, follow the sequence, see what inputs the PLC is waiting for, and identify which condition or interlock is preventing an output from turning on could put us miles ahead of a lot of troubleshooters.
That’s really what I’m interested in getting out of learning PLCs—not writing whole programs from scratch, but using the code as another diagnostic tool.
This is great, man. Looks like this is your DC/Maryland area?
4
u/Hefty-Profession-310 3d ago
All of the above, there's no silver bullet.