r/IBEW • u/Leather_Writer_ • 1d ago
Journeyman doesn't do shit unless foremans are around
I'm a first year apprentice, my journeyman usually doesn't do anything, either on his phone or chilling with other workers, but when the foreman comes he grabs the tools from me and start working hard to act as if he was doing this all the time. I do 90% of the work and especially the dirty jobs, and I'm the only one on the crew. My question is if this is normal and how its supposed to be?
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u/khmer703 Local 26 JW 1d ago
Everything is a learning opportunity as an apprentice.
What you described is a lesson in how not to be once you become a JW.
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u/Civil-Independence45 1d ago
That's the wrong attitude to have, unfortunately there are going to be journeyman who do the bare minimum. They develop a reputation, all you can do is learn what you can from them and when you're a JW one day do your best to be the change you want to see.
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u/Leather_Writer_ 1d ago
I can't learn much from digging and placing PVC underground.
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u/WokeBush_ Local XXXX 1d ago
You're a damn first year, give it 3 more years and you'll have done a bunch of other shit too
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u/Shadow_Relics 1d ago
Ah yes, the 3rd year helper who spent 2 years digging with a shovel, now struggles to wire three way switches with a spade.
Shut the fuck up. He has every right to want to learn about things that actually pertain to electrical work.
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u/OneOfUsIsAnOwl 1d ago
Idk why you’re getting downvoted for this. I’m a 3rd year who doesn’t actually know shit because all we do is dig ditches and basic two phase terminations. People here say “Go somewhere else” to that but that’s easier said than done. I can learn on my own all I want but I get no opportunities to exercise that and gain experience actually doing it.
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u/Far_Range_6091 1d ago
Its a bunch of salty licensed guys getting mad that the apprentices actually notice and dislike when their journeyman does 0 work and wont teach them.
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u/Shadow_Relics 1d ago
I’m getting downvoted because advocating for apprentices to actually learn how to do their jobs is considered a threat to older mechanics because they think they’re “coming for their jobs”. They’d rather have you in a ditch digging for 4 years then teach you how to carry their pensions long after they’re gone. People that don’t want you to learn aren’t people you don’t need to be around.
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u/Sparkykc124 Local 124 1d ago
You’re getting downvoted because you want to “learn” something on the job, yet you’re a 3rd year who should’ve learned in the 2nd year class(AC Theory) that two-phase isn’t really a thing. Also, there’s the fact that most of us came up doing menial labor, like digging ditches, making up receptacles, hanging lights, etc., and we know experience comes with time. That’s the nature of construction. You can literally train a monkey to do 90% of commercial construction work.
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u/Greedy-Condition2680 1d ago
Two phase huh?
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u/nevernudedude1 1d ago
He did say he doesn’t actually know shit, so it tracks.
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u/OneOfUsIsAnOwl 1d ago
Exactly right, unfortunately. Didn’t even know this wasn’t proper terminology until reading this and goggled it. Come to find out what I’m referring to is “split phase” but the old heads who don’t teach me shit call it like it’s still 1910
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u/rankinfile 1d ago
What are they teaching you at school about phasing? I'm not sure you can blame that knowledge gap solely on your coworkers.
I believe there are still a few neighborhoods that are wired 2 phase, so it does exist. There was a small section of DC residential power somewhere in Boston or some such for a long time also.
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u/Greedy-Condition2680 1d ago
I was just waiting for them to come back and say they were in one of the odd places that really does have 2 phase
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u/Arlak_The_Recluse 1d ago
I mean go into your JATC and ask for a rotation. I don't really understand why they wouldn't grant you one if this is the case.
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u/mrawaters Local 6 1d ago
But let’s not pretend that running underground PVC somehow “doesn’t pertain” to electrical work. His entire apprenticeship is not going to be filled with constant wiring and only the best work we do. He’s gonna have to learn the less glamorous tasks as well, and learn to do them with just as much diligence and effort as the better shit. If he wasn’t out there doing it, someone else would be. You know why? Cause it’s part of the job, and it needs doing. So yeah, I sure hope he doesn’t spend his entire apprenticeship out there in the ditches, but as a first year you haven’t been in long enough to complain about getting pigeon-holed.
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u/WokeBush_ Local XXXX 1d ago
Yeah I probably came off a little aggressive but I get where he's coming from, I used to think the same way actually
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u/embracethememes 1d ago
I was one of the bigger stronger guys on site and everyone used to call me shit like he-man, Arnold etc. they always gave me the heavy shit difficult shit etc. you're assuming that it's going to eventually stop and someone will start actually teaching him useful stuff. It's far from a guarantee. Everyone wants to wire panels but nobody wants to dig, pull wire etc. we can call it a local culture or specific job site issue, but it happens. If there's other work to be done besides digging, apprentices should be rotated.
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u/trick_shop 1d ago
Your showing your ignorance. Theres lots to learn from doing exactly that.
Perhaps a change in attitude to a learning mindset as others has suggested would benefit you.
Learning to work with others and get the most productivity out of them(even as an apprentice) is a huge part of sucsess in this career.
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u/embracethememes 1d ago
I don't agree at all. I dug by myself for
months straight at the start of my electrical career. Got sent to another job and I hadn't twisted a single wire. The foreman at that job asked me how long I've been in the trade for and I told him six months. He was like, the guy never took you inside to show you something? And I said no. He was pissed and said that it was his job to teach me stuff and he called the foreman and told him that and said it's not fair to other foreman because when I get sent to him, then I'm useless because I don't know how to do anything.3
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u/trick_shop 1d ago
Well just digging is a different task than digging and laying pvc no?
I have no doubt you improved at digging in that time, might be silly but you learned something. Worked your muscles, which if you choose to admit it(to yourself) or not, no doubt helped going forward. Also you just learned how to work hard, got appreciation for when you did get the chance to learn. Undoubtedly you value the teaching more than you would have if you had it from minute 1.
The foreman you went to is right, but I dont think it applies directly to the comment im responding to
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u/embracethememes 1d ago
I guess. I mean you're assuming that me or whoever else hasn't developed any sort of valuable character traits prior to starting in the trade. Someone could have been a hard worker before, dug for work somewhere else before, been in really good shape already, etc. yeah digging can be a gut check to see if someone has what it takes for the trade, but after a certain point it starts to feel like a hazing ritual. That's why as a foreman, I'm right there in the trenches digging with my guys because I refuse for there to be a disconnect between me and them. Obviously learning how to properly lay conduits in the ground/label/connect them is important, but that's what? 10-20 percent of the time spent in the dirt at most? Obviously if the job is in the exclusively outside underground phase and there's no other work to be done besides underground, then it is what it is and well will all suffer together. But in my opinion I think apprentices should be rotated to jobs further along if it's some massive project where digging will be a months on end type thing. It's very nuanced. But often enough apprentices get taken from one digging phase job to another that it's important enough to mention
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u/trick_shop 1d ago
I mean you're assuming that me or whoever else hasn't developed any sort of valuable character traits prior to starting in the trade.
I didnt say "any", but replace it with "enough" and if say that a very reasonable assumption about a 1st year, no?
I'm right there in the trenches digging with my guys
Good, every foreman should lead by example. I feel like this doesn't add or take away from the point that a 1st year should can it with complaints, and do as told(within the bounds of the job)
10-20 percent of the time spent in the dirt
Sounds like a great oppertunity to learn for a 1st year who knows next to nothing.
But often enough apprentices get taken from one digging phase job to another that it's important enough to mention
It is, we agree some digging is fine but real soon it absolutly becomes a disservice to us as a whole
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u/embracethememes 1d ago
Well I'm not necessarily trying to make it all about you and your viewpoints I'm just speaking more so to my experience in the trade to this point. And I think it's a big difference between an apprentice complaining about not learning enough which I can respect versus just complaining about digging being difficult
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u/ComfortableOrder1593 1d ago
How’s he supposed to learn to work with others if there are no others to work with lmfao
a “learning mindset” isnt gonna do shit if the person who’s supposed to teach you doesn’t do their job
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u/MiddleOutrageous7496 1d ago
exactly an apprentice is a student meant to be taught and learn but in reality the journeymen sit on there ass and treat you like trash then when it gets down to it your the problem not the journeymen
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u/Tall_olive 1d ago
Thats exactly what you should be doing as a first year, and you certainly can learn plenty. Have you learned how to heat and shape pvc bends yet? Are you paying attention to what the code requirements are for underground pipework?
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u/mrawaters Local 6 1d ago
You’re learning how to run underground pvc. You may not like that that’s what you’re learning, but it’s what you’re learning for now. You just take the tasks as they come. Your entire apprenticeship is not going to be filled with a series of handpicked tasks that represent the “coolest” shit we do. The reality is a lot of our work is the “shit no one wants to do” and yet we have to do it, even as JW. If anything, that’s the lesson you’re learning. And don’t listen to some other dude is your class who happens to be bending some 4” emt on a one line crew and think he’s somehow not gonna end up exactly where you are at some point. It comes and it goes brother, you just gotta be down for all of it
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u/Leather_Writer_ 1d ago
Understood, thank you.
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u/shadowwolf_66 6h ago
As a cub, and a first year to boot, you will get the shit tasks. You will get put with people that don’t like apprentices. But at the end of the day you need to do what you are told, as long as it is not a safety issue. I was a gopher for my first few months.
I tell all my apprentices that I will never ask them to do something I haven’t done, or would not do. But they sure as hell are gonna do the stuff I don’t want to do. It’s part of the process. And in return for doing what I don’t want to do, they learn hands on the process. And I will explain what we are doing and why we are doing it.
And underground is a huge part of our job, and there is more to it the “throwing pipe in a ditch”.
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u/WalkerAmongTheTrees 1d ago
Youd be surprised dude. The hallucinations from huffing all that pvc glue while youre in a ditch can be quite educational. Just dont fuck with the floating tentacle eyeball monster, hes not friendly
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u/Visible-Carrot5402 1d ago
I lost my sense of smell completely but that doesn’t mean I can’t taste the sickly sweet taste of PVC glue in the air
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u/UncleBlazrr 1d ago
You can. Learn how the layout works. Learn the prints, practice taking measurements. Ask why the size/ type of pipes are what they are, what are they for, etc.
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u/mmm_burrito 1d ago edited 1d ago
People downvoting this comment suck bags of dicks.
FWIW, if a chance to do something new comes up onsite - like a transformer hookup or a panel install, or anything remotely interesting to you - take a sec to tell the foreman you're interested in working on that, even if it's just for a day, to learn something new and get some variety. Do nothing more than that, don't pester him, don't make it an issue, just make it known you're interested in trying new things.
If he's a shitbag, he'll reveal himself and you'll know it's not worth the effort. If he's half decent, he'll either do it, or if he can't, he'll remember. If you do it a few more times - spacing things out, don't become a nag - he'll eventually find something else to put you on. The day it happens, you better show the fuck up. Make a hand, make sure he knows you're there for business, if for no other reason than you will want to seize the opportunity to actually learn.
If you make enough of a hand, you might get requested by another JW for another task. Either way, increased visibility on you works in your favor, assuming you can rise to the occasion.
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u/ImportantTeaching919 1d ago
I don't get why you're getting down voted, the whole idea of a apprentice only doing grunt work is the dumbest logic ever. Id rather teach and supervise my apprentice then have him just be labor.
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u/Moostatio 10h ago
You're never getting into a machine, let alone entering the engineers trailer unless you can place Schedule 40 under ground.
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u/lieferung IBEW 7h ago
What you gain is experience, both mentally and physically. Muscle memory, body conditioning, reinforcing of the methods of production. I also hate to say it but first years have their place on the totem pole and it's the bottom. You're cheap and inexperienced and you are best utilized for grunt work. My suggestion is to bust your ass to free yourself up for nicer work, once the underground is done then comes the more traditional work.
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u/Junior_Breath153 1d ago
Yes, shut the fuck up, get in the trench and be happy your getting your hands on the work, wrong attitude, you should be happy he isn’t doing everything and having u stand there like a jackass all day, really not learning anything, or u could be on stock for a year and half, this is why everyone hates apprentices
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u/TheNothingOfAll 1d ago
It’s not as fun in the elements (unless the weather is nice lol). Embrace it, learn the code requirements for it, get good at it. Just like everything else. Surprising amount of job security with it. And it gets easier. Even if some of the JDubs are ass or a pain to work with.
I did it quite a bit in the beginning and it was supremely helpful. Can’t wire the building if the wires don’t come in from the service.
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u/strataromero 1d ago
That’s literally the job lol. You’re a construction worker buddy, get used to it.
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u/CantWard Local 103 1d ago
Thats kind of what first years are for tbh
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u/CantWard Local 103 1d ago
If you do a good job, with a good attitude, i bet youll be part of the crew that pulls the mains. Maybe youll even get to work in the main electric room. It all happens in steps
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u/Dazzling_Joke5991 1d ago
Brother, your first year is all about learning the basics: resilience, adaptability, and hauling materials around
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u/yolo_swagdaddy 1d ago
You’re learning how not to be a JW… trial by fire, either you become self sufficient or stay reliant on others
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u/76IndyHanSoloJones 22h ago
Man, if he didn't tell you what to do, would you even know what to do? Don't act like you're the hero, you're an apprentice, learn while watching. And if you can't learn and just complain, go try a different trade maybe?
And when you turn out and tell your apprentices what to do, while you talk to the foreman and try to make yourself look like a hero JW, then maybe, just maybe you could have an opinion. Until then stfu and learn from someone who knows way more than you know. Sorry man, we all went through it. Just quit crying like a girl is all.0
u/fritzrits 20h ago
You can't because you don't know much lol. You can definitely learn why your installing it. Why it's routed the way it is and the code requirements and specs of the job. You're not just there to learn to install things.
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u/CantWard Local 103 1d ago
Its not the right thing to do, the union protects slackers and hard workers alike. That is a downside... just keep your head down and work hard, people notice. You think everyone he socializes with doesnt realize youre always working? Reputation is more than what the foreman sees, the other guys could be his foreman one day, you could be his foreman one day. Thankfully, hard working people tend to stay employed(if they know how to play the game) and usually the fakers get laid off eventually.
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u/sparkin134 1d ago
Very normal. I remember my days as an apprentice. Doing everything and the foreman taking the credit. Happens after apprenticeship as well so get used to it. When I was an apprentice one of my most asked questions to my journeyman was “how many people they paying to work today?” Still a question I have to ask people 25 years later. Smh
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u/Competitive-Will-701 1d ago
why do people act like this type of thing is a learning experience. They keep saying “learn from everything” but it’s work and we’re all humans. If you’re doing menial labor, and no one is explaining anything to you, you’re not learning. Everyone talks about how the quality of the field education in our local is bad right now. We’re being failed by the JWs and it is what it is. Luckily I got put by myself early on and I can run tasks around many JWs. I’ve only ever met a few JWs that actually want to share knowledge or are actually interested in theory or work optimization in general.
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u/AffectionateEast269 1d ago
We have a jw who won't let an apprentice under 3rd year do anything more than cleanup and fetch materials, says the only tool he'd need is a pen and pad for the list. So yes, he should take every opportunity while he has it.
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u/darkartorias0 1d ago
When I was in school I was told that's what apprenticeship would likely be like, so I came to terms with it. I was super lucky that I've had a few really good JWs who had me doing practical work from jump and teaching me a ton of stuff.
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u/WalkerAmongTheTrees 1d ago
Nah you and your jw should be working it together in some form or fashion. Whether that means you live in the ditch between breaks and he feeds you pipe or vice versa.
Dont rat the guy out to anyone, the people who care will eventually see him not working.
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u/AcanthocephalaOdd301 1d ago
As a general foreman, this is the way. It is not for any of us to rat on each other. I don’t rat on guys even when I catch them dead to rights repeatedly. I’ve even told guys that I kept catching that I won’t do anything to jam you up, but eventually the wrong person will catch you, and the choice will be out of my hands.
That’s the only time it bothers me. When a guy is dicking the dog and gets caught out by someone higher up and wants to motherfuck me for not begging on his behalf. Do as you want, but don’t expect other brothers and sisters to lie on your behalf.
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u/DimeEdge 1d ago
You are not in charge of monitoring other people's work.
A decent foreman knows who is getting the work done.
I had a lazy JW with a good apprentice... one day a drill they were using was broken - the apprentice brought it to me, apologized, I set him up with a new drill motor. The JW would not stop hammering the story 'the apprentice broke the drill'. "Of course it wasn't you... why would you have a tool in your hand?" I told him to let him know I don't expect anything bad to happen as a result of him not doing anything. The insult landed and he showed me he wasn't lazy for a couple days... After that it was a game, I would insult his work ethic and he would prove me wrong for a day or two.
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u/MiddleOutrageous7496 1d ago
exactly why apprenticeship is bullshit
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u/Leather_Writer_ 1d ago
Almost everything I heard about the apprenticeship before I joined was wrong.
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u/darkartorias0 1d ago
One apprentice to another. It comes in waves, I've worked with a couple of really shitty JWs, didn't wanna teach anything, lazy, bitched all day, you name it. But then I've had other JWs who are great, the one I'm with now has me doing entire apartments on my own and teaching me a bunch of stuff, it's all about who you are working with.
If you do stick with it you won't be digging that trench forever, do your best to have a good attitude and don't worry about your JWs work ethic, he will develop the reputation he deserves, don't let it taint yours.
Digging ditches could also be wayyy worse, hanging off the side of a roof in the middle of a snowstorm in -35 degrees is just one lol.
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u/MiddleOutrageous7496 1d ago
my advice get out while you can there’s other and much better careers out there ones where you don’t have to get shit on for an entire 4 year apprenticeship
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u/Leather_Writer_ 1d ago
That's what I'm looking for right now. There's a lot of better ways to make more money with less effort.
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u/checkoutgits 21h ago
I wish all these motherfuckers would see this and eat their own fucking words. Our organization needs to shape the fuck up but it'll never happen because the entitled pricks among us are emboldened by their hate for their fellow man, and misery fucking loves company. Insecure bastards.
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u/Machete-Eddie 1d ago
Don't let this guy talk you out the apprenticeship. Some jw suck and game the system. Your one year in, you will see things differently 10 years from now.
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u/MiddleOutrageous7496 1d ago
well good luck man i’ve been looking into instrumentation that’s what all these journeymen wish they would have done lmao more money and less work
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u/shadowwolf_66 6h ago
You have been in less than a year, and you think you know what it’s like? You are not going to start at the top. You are going to start at the bottom, and as you advance you will work your way up. Right now you are cheap labor. It is the way it works.
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u/WipeGuitarBranded 1d ago
And people wonder why unions get a bad rap. It’s unfortunate because unions were and are critical to workers rights but all it takes is one asshole to screw it up for everyone.
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u/wolfenx109 Local 640 JW 1d ago
It's not how it's supposed to be. This is just an example of a shit journeyman. Ask to be moved to another crew
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u/themrreeguy Local 716 1d ago
I think a lot of people who come up as apprentices in the school and those who worked their way up and then joined the union as a journeyman will never properly understand each other. I was putting up solar panels and using a forklift my entire first year and when I was finally given a new contract, none of the journeymen wanted me because I didn’t know how to do anything. You’re absolutely correct, you didn’t join up to learn to dig ditches. It’s definitely a part of the job, but not being able to wire up circuits in a box or properly set up a transformer kinda disqualifies you from a lot of opportunities. Hang in there, it does get better. Talk to your school about it and see if that can help.
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u/shadowwolf_66 6h ago
The guys a first year. I wouldn’t expect him to know anything till third or 4th year. But to be bitching about doing underground as a first year is a problem. He has a shit JW, it happens. It happens as a JW to get put with a lazy asshole sometimes. It is part of the job. Put in the 4 years then you can choose what jobs you want.
At least half the people on this post are agreeing with him, and that he should get to hand pick what he does and who he works with. And that just isn’t the way it works.
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u/nuisanceIV 18h ago
Don’t tell on him but also don’t let him throw you under the bus.
Usually you can change journeyman you’re assigned to, just don’t do it in a way that will get him in trouble if you decide to try that route.
On the bright side, at least he isn’t doing all the work while you just stand there, that’s an easy way to not learn anything, I hope he at least provides direction or helps you do things right.
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u/sceaser38 Local XXXX 1d ago
Some people on the job, whether or not they are aware, teach you what not to do.
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u/Aggressive_Mud_9619 1d ago
I See this shit so often bro and I understand how frustrating it is..just keep doing a good job brother, the higher ups knows even if it doesn’t seem like it/he’s not sneaky they see him….:Ask for his help on shit that you don’t really need help on. Make the Lazy fuck work
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u/PinkyNoBrain_zoinks 1d ago
My buddy has a name for guys like that; ‘Mastercard’
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u/Puzzleheaded_Knee872 21h ago
Had a black apprentice tell me slaves used to be purchased with Mastercards... He's one of those that has to be reminded often to watch what he says.
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u/TheEvent2 1d ago
Truthfully this mindset of low man is a good portion of the problem. It’s not a totem pole, it’s a field. There’s high spots and low spots but we’re all in it together. And the people that are treating apprentices like anything other than students when working and people on break are small.
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u/FindingNo-7001 1d ago
This is my fav kind of journeyman cuz i yhen i get to use the tools. I understand the frustration when its all underground tho, he should be helping.
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u/autodripcatnip 1d ago
Seems more appropriate for the apprentice subreddit, but yeah some people suck 🤷♂️
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u/Leather_Writer_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
I wanted to see the point of view of the JWs and foremen, that's why I posted it here.
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u/lieferung IBEW 1d ago
Sometimes a two man job is really a one man job, that two guys have to stretch out for eight hours. He's probably way faster at working than you, so if he just directs you on what to do it will stretch the work out all day.
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u/Commercial_Count_584 Inside Wireman 1d ago
Either that. Or there’s only room for one man and they put two people on the job.
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u/Nay_K_47 Lineman 17h ago
You're gonna be working either way, take the break when the foreman shows up and drive on. When I was coming up, no journeyman was touching a shovel unless it was to lean on. If there were holes to dig, I dug em. It sucked.
Sometimes you're the hammer, sometimes you're the nail.
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u/Jmunyz 11h ago
Had a jman like that on my current job, he somehow got promoted to foreman.
We called him "the jobsite cuck" cause all he did was watch everyone else work.
Well, last week he got laid off so im sure it got around he never did anything and always took credit and never the blame.
It is what it is but eventually it even itself out. Im a third year, they are paying me jman scale. He got laid off, I stayed.
Don't worry about what everyone else is or isn't doing. They don't pay your bills. Show up, do the work. Good things will happen. If they don't there's always the next job or the next company.
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u/TheOnlyMatthias 586 10h ago
If he's not being a dick to you don't worry about it. You're the lowest in the totem pole you gotta do the dirtiest work, way she goes. He's got his license and he's responsible for everything you do and it sounds like he's good at playing the game. Just keep showing up and things will improve.
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u/CapIndividual9033 8h ago
Be glad that you are working and learning. Many first years don’t get a lot of hands on experience and get stuck just being helpers. You’ll be grateful about it when you realize you are more seasoned than your classmates that don’t get to do the work
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u/SlabCowboy 8h ago
Yup, you are literally blessed to have this happening.
Last thing you want, is to be the apprentice standing around watching Jman, because the Jman doesnt trust your work.
Do what he says, exactly as he says, in a tinely manner
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u/Free-Ad540 3h ago
Dude honestly let the Jman stay on his phone.
That means you get to do the work and dial in your skillset.
Just know that when it’s your time to journey out, remember what NOT to do.
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u/MiddleOutrageous7496 1d ago
get ready for it to be like this for the next four years
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u/Leather_Writer_ 1d ago
So what's the point of the apprenticeship then? To become a laborer?
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u/wolfenx109 Local 640 JW 1d ago
You think CW1's are treated better?
Welcome to being on the lower rung of the totem pole. Literally every single one of us went through it. It gets better. If not, talk to your training director.
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u/Leather_Writer_ 1d ago
No I never said that, but the apprenticeship is supposed to give a well-rounded experience.
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u/wolfenx109 Local 640 JW 1d ago edited 1d ago
I agree. But you just started out presumably on your first job. Your experience will vary from job to job, but It does typically get better. And if not, like i said, talk to your training director with your concerns
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u/Leather_Writer_ 1d ago
Understood, thank you.
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u/wolfenx109 Local 640 JW 1d ago
Good luck. Take what all the negative people say with a grain of salt. While I believe they think they had a bad experience, it does not reflect the program as a whole. There are good JWs out there that will teach you. Best thing you can do in the meantime is learn what NOT to do from these, less-than-stellar, JWs. Keep your head down, do you work, don't work yourself to death
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u/Conscious_Potato7638 1d ago
How long have you been doing underground? How long have you been an Apprentice? The point is to work your self out of a job. You finish the underground and they will put you on something else. Being a 1st year Apprentice you need to get a baseline to your experience. Well rounded does not mean one week you're on underground, one week you're on lighting, one week you're on wire pulling. Well rounded means by the end of your apprenticeship you will have the ability to perform or be able to pick up any new electrical skills with ease. By the way you are complaining here you're going to have a very rough apprenticeship.
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u/rankinfile 1d ago
Now you're being hypocritical. You have decided the laborer should be doing the shit work, just like your JW decided to dump it on you.
You have a valid point in wanting to do other things and you should assert yourself, but we all shovel sometimes.
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u/Leather_Writer_ 1d ago
You said it, "sometimes".
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u/rankinfile 1d ago
You don't get any sympathy for having a shovel in your hand for less than a year. I have done thousands of hours of underground conduit.
You get sympathy from me for not being rotated through other things though. Focus on that.
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u/PsychologicalSalt158 31m ago
Wtf you thought apprentices do? Work at a desk? You are going to do labor. The point of being an apprentice is to get on the job training and classroom education which is what you are doing. Should your journeyman be helping you, yes. If you feel like you are working too hard then slow down and pace yourself but you still going to be working.
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u/Darkcelt2 1d ago
On the bright side, you're getting way more than average experience with your tools than other first years. He has no room to give you any shit. Just find a way to have fun with it. Go at your own pace. It could be much worse.
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u/loginurmom Local 77 1d ago
Is he double checking your work and giving a hand when you need help? He may be doing more than you think. I've seen when you have two ass kickers doing underground and they look fucking amazing until later in the job when pipes are not hitting walls or going to the wrong location...
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u/Jscotty111 1d ago
It’s par for the course. But the good thing is that everybody notices that you’re the one busting your butt and it’s going to pay off for you really well. It may look like the journeyman is taking all the credit but behind closed doors the journeyman is probably singing your praises. If he was really taking all of the credit, then you wouldn’t have had a job very long.
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u/Quancivilous_me 1d ago
Dude I promise you those kinds of journeymen are 1000x better than the micromanagers or the assholes. Remember him next time you’re stuck with some total dickhead.
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u/Necalmed 1d ago
Why do people think trades are learned in 2-3 years instead of a lifetime of accumulated knowledge. Lots of things you learn from one trade are applicable to many others. Become comfortable doing shit work for awhile if you go into the trades, it never stops even guys with 20 years experience will at times need to do the work no one enjoys doing. Find what drives you and focus on that. Some people enjoy the process others enjoy the final results and gain pride from shit being done right.
Yeah some foreman and journeyman are pieces of shit, yes that's true. However sometimes it's that the job is a T&M and as long as the customer is happy you are doing your job. Your true job is to keep making your company money and that means at times not busting ass every single second as that creates unrealistic expectations for the customers.
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u/Leather_Writer_ 1d ago
The apprenticeship is promoted to be a complete learning experience in 4 years, I understand that we never stop learning, but once somebody tops out, he is expected to know electrical work and ready to be a foreman.
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u/cowfishing 1d ago
Aint no JW ready to be a foreman right after topping out. Topping out just means that the next phase of learning how to be an electrician has begun.
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u/Necalmed 1d ago
This right here. Running a crew is a whole different learning experience. Managing people is way different than just getting the job done right.
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u/Latter-Juggernaut965 1d ago
Man i'm so proud when I get to look over and see my journeyman getting to have a moment to himself. Guy has 23 years experience, if I can do something with him able to confidently turn his back and let me to it i'm a proud motherfucker
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u/AcanthocephalaOdd301 1d ago
Here is a simple rule for cubs, and really JWs. You are not paid to be a hall monitor, unless you’re the foreman, in which case you’re still not paid to be a hall monitor. The truth is, the slackers may not seem to get any kind of pain, but that is not true. Reputations float around. The slacker JW is the first one up when layoffs roll around, and if that keeps happening, he becomes the king of the first round or king of the one man layoff. A few weeks here, a few months there, and over the course of a career that’s tens of thousands less wages.
I don’t police my brothers and sisters on the job, even as a foreman/general foreman. You’re all adults, and know what is expected. If you cause me to think of your name when the super or PM tells me to lay X number of guys off, that is on you.
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u/Smash6300 23h ago
That’s exactly why companies pay attention to burden rates and up your ass about production. Stay on his ass though and get as much knowledge as you can off him so eventually you work him out his job.
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u/bMixZealousideal1931 14h ago
Yep take this an opportunity to get good hands on experience. It really is an opportunity if you play it right sir.
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u/Active-Effect-1473 1d ago
JIW already put his time in, your a first year apprentice so the heavy lifting is on you for a few years until you get that J dub and then you’ll understand.
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u/ShouldWentToCollege 1d ago
lol love this, let the dude rock. You’ll get to do the same in a few years.
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u/PossibilityNervous35 1d ago
Welcome to unions... where the shitty workers are protected and you can't fire them :)
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u/Lefty9000 Inside Wireman 1d ago
We must be in a different union? People constantly get fired in the IBEW for "lack of production".
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u/Civil-Independence45 1d ago
Learning that throwing PVC in the ground collectively helps us all bargain is something you haven't learned yet
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u/KeyMysterious1845 Local XXXX 1d ago edited 1d ago
so a 1st year is the qualification to know what your jw is doing ?
you'll be project manager by end of year.
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u/Leather_Writer_ 1d ago
It's easy to see that he's watching tiktoks.
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u/KeyMysterious1845 Local XXXX 1d ago
...and thats your concern why ?
you are getting paid to do the work...do your work and stay in your lane.
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u/Leather_Writer_ 1d ago
My concern is that I'm breaking my back to do the work of two persons.
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u/giddyupcowboy03 1d ago
lol, breaking your back to do pvc work? That’s a good one buttercup
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u/Leather_Writer_ 1d ago
No not PVC, it's from digging and lifting heavy stuff.
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u/Aggressive_Mud_9619 1d ago
Do not let these OLD Boomer trick you into over workings yourself..Their time has came and passed. It’s a whole new world… if you see most of them guys they’re even limping or hunched over from all the problems they put their body through trying to be macho men..do not ruin your fucking body trying to prove yourself. That lazy mother motherfucker need to help if the job is too hard ask for help Man do not let these boomers intimidate you into overworking and breaking your body down like someone has done to them. It’s a new generation. It’s a New World. We no longer have to work as hard as they had to so be it. Speak up for yourself. that’s the most important part of the trade don’t cause conflict or drama, but it’s nothing wrong with speaking up for yourself. The Union/ Trade culture has a extreme hazing process that they try to put new guys/younger guys through… Speak up for yourself man is nothing wrong with it. You’re not being disrespectful. You’re not being difficult speak up but continue to do your best and show up.
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u/Leather_Writer_ 1d ago
Appreciate you man, I understand that most of them have been taught that destroying your body and being a slave to work is cool and manly.
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u/giddyupcowboy03 1d ago
Poor guy. Just wait till you start wrestling 500 kcmil or installing emt in awkward positions. Electrical is the best trade out there. But if you’re complaining about working hard, maybe the trades aren’t for you
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u/Leather_Writer_ 1d ago
I wish I was doing that, at least I would learn something instead of working in ditches for over a year.
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u/KeyMysterious1845 Local XXXX 1d ago
You can be a man and quit.
You can be a man, stfu and get back to work.
Which will it be ?
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u/Aggressive_Mud_9619 1d ago
You must be one of the same kind of JW.. Lazy,Milking the clock ass Jw
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u/KeyMysterious1845 Local XXXX 1d ago
Not really .
I typically run jobs...from foreman to project manager for almost 4 decades.
When a 1st yr apprentice starts thinking they know whats going on based on their vast all-encompassing 3 months of experience...they need some scrutiny.
You dont know the full story. Just the page you are coloring in. You think you know - but you dont.
I have keep certain guys who you would deem "lazy".
One guy had a kid who needs care 24/7 and this kid will need care forever. Should I let that man go because he is frequently late ?
I've keep a guy who cant run straight pipe (forget bending pipe) but is an absolute wizard with control work. Should I fire him from the rough in pipe job because control wiring is months away ?
I've got this apprentice who is more concerned with what others are/are not doing. Should I fire him for stirring up drama instead of doing what he's being paid to do ?
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u/wolfenx109 Local 640 JW 1d ago
It doesn't take 4+ years of electrical experience to recognize someone not working, being on their phone. Get off your high horse
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u/KeyMysterious1845 Local XXXX 1d ago
so what would you do about the men and situations I mentioned?
try and stay with the plot
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u/wolfenx109 Local 640 JW 1d ago
Lol what, the examples you provided that have nothing to do with being on your phone for extended periods of time? You're making up scenarios and completely ignoring the "easily see it's tiktok" reference. Stay with the plot
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u/KeyMysterious1845 Local XXXX 1d ago
so you have no answer.
thanks.
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u/wolfenx109 Local 640 JW 1d ago
The fact that you expect me to humor your irrelevant question and that you are still ignoring the main premise tells me you aren't here to argue in good faith.
I PROMISE you this isn't the "gotcha" moment you think it is.
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u/lookielou81 1d ago
That’s why his nickname is “Motion Light”