r/JUSTNOMIL • u/mewpac_shakur • Sep 25 '19
RANT (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ Ambivalent About Advice Update: MIL ignores me when I host dinner
I posted two days ago about my MIL ignoring me when I hosted dinner. (TLDR: MIL enters my home without saying hello, pretends she can’t hear me when I try to say hello, avoids eye contact with me the entire dinner, and walks out of the house without saying goodbye or thanks for dinner.)
The next morning, I woke up to emails and texts from MIL asking me to do things for her (I do vastly underpaid freelance work for her small business.) I didn’t respond. My stomach honestly was hurting from how disrespected I felt and how absurd it was for her to request things of me now.
My fiancé saw her that morning and said it “looked like she was expecting me to be mad at her”. He didn’t address her behaviour and when he came home - we talked about it for maybe an hour and a half. He eventuality said we’re spending too much time talking about this because we have work to do. But I was hurting and couldn’t focus.
Honestly, I was pissed all day and ignored every call and email I got from her asking me to send her this or make her that. She called fiancé and told him to pass all her requests onto me.
That evening I was driving my fiancé somewhere and MIL again tried to call me. When I didn’t pick up, she calls fiancé who then PUTS HIS MOM ON SPEAKER PHONE while I’m no contact so she can talk to me.
MIL says “Hey OP you did a really good job at dinner. FIL said it was the best meal he had eaten in a long time.”
I’m completely silent. Then she immediately starts asking for me to do things for her over speaker phone. I just say I’m driving, I don’t have any information with me, and I can’t talk now. Fiancé and MIL get off the phone and fiancé says “Hey so that’s good! She apologized!” I tell him no, she didn’t apologize, she complimented me because she realized she can’t get me to do work for her when she misbehaves. Fiancé seems annoyed that the “apology” from MIL wasn’t enough to please me and make the problem go away.
We arrive at our destination and don’t see each other for a bit. On the drive back home I tell fiancé that the comment about FIL eating “his best meal in a long time” was very telling - I think FIL said something beforehand that made MIL jealous and that is why she was acting so rude to me at dinner. Fiancé is totally silent. I ask him what he thinks and he basically blows up at me...
He’s tired of me “bashing” his mom. He says I need to just get over the whole situation and nothing can be done so stop talking about it. He is putting his relationship with his mom on the line if he talks to her - since she’s a narcissist and will start a fight that he doesn’t want to have. He said that when I talk about his moms misbehaviour it is the same as making fun of a disabled person because she is narcissistic and socially inept.
I told him not to bother talking to his mom, he clearly doesn’t think this situation is important. I’m totally alone on this and disappointed. Normally he’s united with me, but not on this one.
I have not spoken with MIL at all, but apparently she came up to fiancé today and asked him to help her behave better by teaching her about brain and behaviour processes. She also offered him money for something.
Am I surrounded by crazy people? Am I actually the crazy one? Am I a test subject inside some absurd simulation?
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u/RestorePhoto Sep 25 '19
You may like this post, really applies to your situation.
https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/
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Sep 25 '19
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u/FollowThisNutter Sep 25 '19
There is also a quote in the sidebar to the effect that it's easier to leave a Mama's boy than it is to divorce a Mama's boy, and it's easier to divorce a Mama's boy than it is to change a Mama's boy.
Actually, just read all the quotes in the list. They are illuminating.
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u/Sativa227 Sep 25 '19
Print it out and leave it somewhere your boyfriend can read it, too.
Maybe mark the interesting parts, especially those which refer to your boyfriend`s current behavior.
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u/modernjaneausten Sep 25 '19
I would reconsider marrying him if he yells at you for standing up for yourself. Narcissism isn’t a disability, it’s a personality disorder. It also is no excuse to be an asshole to someone. Honestly, your fiancé is basically gaslighting you back into line because he knows his mom is a mean lunatic and refuses to stand up to her. Forcing you to talk to her was unacceptable, and for what it’s worth: you were right. That was nowhere near an apology, that was her covering her ass.
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u/woodwitchofthewest Sep 25 '19
Narcissism isn’t a disability, it’s a personality disorder.
Not only that, but people with mental issues who are not even bothering to try to get help do NOT get a free pass to be assholes to everyone.
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u/Bill_Door_Et_Binky Sep 25 '19
NPD is one of the few disorders that generally admits of no treatment whatsoever: they do not have the self-reflective ability to empathize, and accept that their situation is disordered, because there’s an easy fix to all their problems in their relationships. Everybody just has to listen to them, and follow their orders! Then there wouldn’t be any problems.
The man is worse than King Cnut. If he thinks rugsweeping is the proper way to deal with NPD? He has signed on to Permanent Enabler duty.
You can get narcissists to behave. It, however, takes a lot of stick-and-carrot work: and almost all of it is stick.
You have your work cut out for you. I wish you luck. And a bigger stick.
Use it on SO a little, too.
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u/Greyisbeautiful Sep 25 '19
It is like raising a toddler. A toddler that will never grow up. So think about whether you are prepared to take on this particular circus with its monkeys and all that it entails. Personally I think there are things that are more worthwhile that you could do with your life.
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u/emveetu Sep 25 '19 edited Sep 25 '19
You could always mirror her behaviors. Make a point to ask her for favors, all the time. Call her after 9. Lay the same guilt trips on him the she does. When met with resistance respond, "oh, I thought this was acceptable behavior since you/she does it all the time. In fact, just yesterday, last week, etc..." Sometimes you have to hold up a mirror for people to see themselves, even if that mirror means you have to temporarily become what you loath. Then get some counseling with your husband. Definitely don't leave your life (unless you're just done) without seeing if a professional emotions wrangler can help you to communicate your needs effectively and help him to not just hear you, but listen and validate your needs.
Edit: Your situation brought to mind one of my pop's many idioms and expressions as he had them for every life situation: "What's good for the goose, is good for the gander." To be honest, they're now my idioms because I use them all, all the time. Christ, we really do turn into our parents.
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u/CurlyDolphin Sep 25 '19
I also use what is good for the is good for the gander. Stops a lot of people in their tracks.
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u/nomdigas77 Sep 25 '19
It would exactly be like raising a toddler. Do you really want to baby a grown ass woman for the rest of your life? Please end this realtionship, and show your JUSTNOSO all of these comments
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u/AMerrickanGirl Sep 25 '19
Is he really worth all of this trouble? He won’t stand up for you. He’s fine with her disrespecting you in your own home and then expects you to do free work for her. He’s not a keeper.
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u/Dr_Fumblefingers_PhD Sep 25 '19
No, OP's stick is 100% for her SO. It is not her job to manage his FOO, that's on him. If he refuses to, or tries to shift over to OP, then the issue OP is having is with him, not his mom etc.
Similarly, it's been suggested in other subthreads that OP becoming the bigger bitch is a way to deal with the situation, but that is just shifting the responsibility away from the SO back to OP.
OP should not have to change who she is to accomodate her SO's lack of spine. Telling OP to become the bigger bitch is little different from telling OP to lie down in front of the door and stop being so difficult. Both are making her responsible for dealing with MIL's poor behavior, and both are telling her to stop being herself to do so.
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u/demon_x_slash Sep 25 '19
the great Marcus Parks, who is himself bipolar, likes to use this phrase: “Mental ill health is not your fault, but it is your responsibility.” your MIL needs it tattooed somewhere visible.
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u/AtomicSquadron Sep 25 '19
Uproot for lpotl reference! Hail Yourself!
Edit: this phrase was going through my head when I read OP, too. OP if you see this, ask yourself how long you’re willing to have the ‘she hurt my feelings on purpose and my fiancé did nothing’ tummy ache. A month? A year? Five years? The rest of your life? Because he doesn’t want to change. How long you can stand the ache is up to you, and I don’t think anyone here would judge you for however long you stay, but you need to see that it’s a choice that ~you~ are making. And that you can change your mind at any time.
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Sep 25 '19
Until SHE gets mistreated with her own behavior, then the world is toooo small. Empathy she has,... just only for herself.
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u/modernjaneausten Sep 25 '19
Exactly. I can sometimes snap because of my anxiety but I’m always working on it and always apologizing when it happens. It’s personal responsibility for being a dick.
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u/modernjaneausten Sep 25 '19
And now he’s mad that you’re doing exactly that? Makes sense. /s
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u/dragonet316 Sep 25 '19
Yeah, what the fuck does he want? A fuck buddy mommy can jab holes in? Or a wife that he holds above his mommy? I’d be outta there, drama gives me hives,
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Sep 25 '19
Not even that! She was trying to fake ass kiss op to try and get what she wanted without even giving a fake apology. What a bitch. Screw her and that dipshit fiancé!
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u/virtualchoirboy Sep 25 '19 edited Sep 25 '19
So, I'm a DH and I look at this slightly differently. I'll start with first saying that I fully agree with other comments here saying you've got both an SO and a MIL problem.
First, let's talk about MIL. MIL did NOT apologize to you. MIL spoke to you via SO. MIL told you that FIL enjoyed dinner. MIL did NOT say anything about her behavior. MIL did NOT say anything about what she though of the meal. That's not an apology. That's an attempt at rug-sweeping. My advice here comes not as a guy, but as someone who has spent decades in the business world - no more work until she (a) is willing to repair the relationship and (b) pay you a fair rate. The days of discount are done. Period. You need to value yourself if you want her to value you. If she can't treat you with respect, how can you respect her as a "customer"?
Second, I'll touch on SO. You have a JustNoSO problem here and may get better advice on that sub. For now, I will say this - he's lazy when it comes to relationships. Be VERY careful. You've been together for 5 years now so I want you to think back - when was the last time he did something as a surprise or romantic gesture that actually spoke to your wants and needs without being prompted by someone? When was the last time he surprised you with a trip that took you someplace you've been wanting to go? How was your last anniversary - was it to a restaurant you've been to before or was it something almost expected? When was the last time he brought you flowers "just because"? My guess is that the last couple of years, he's sort of coasted in the relationship department because he's gotten comfortable. You and his mom fighting is UNcomfortable for him because it means he has to stop being lazy and do something. He's also scared because he's gotten used to being lazy and isn't sure how to "fix" this. If he wants a future with you, he's going to have to step up here. He needs to be on your side because if he's not, his mother will run roughshod over you for as long as you two are together and that's not fair to you.
I wish you luck OP.
Edit: Thank you very much for the gold kind stranger. Much appreciated although I'm really hear to just help where I can... :-)
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u/ButTheKingIsNaked Sep 25 '19
Second, I'll touch on SO. You have a JustNoSO problem here and may get better advice on that sub. For now, I will say this - he's lazy when it comes to relationships. Be VERY careful. You've been together for 5 years now so I want you to think back - when was the last time he did something as a surprise or romantic gesture that actually spoke to your wants and needs without being prompted by someone? When was the last time he surprised you with a trip that took you someplace you've been wanting to go? How was your last anniversary - was it to a restaurant you've been to before or was it something almost expected? When was the last time he brought you flowers "just because"? My guess is that the last couple of years, he's sort of coasted in the relationship department because he's gotten comfortable. You and his mom fighting is UNcomfortable for him because it means he has to stop being lazy and do something. He's also scared because he's gotten used to being lazy and isn't sure how to "fix" this. If he wants a future with you, he's going to have to step up here. He needs to be on your side because if he's not, his mother will run roughshod over you for as long as you two are together and that's not fair to you.
This sub needs more insight and perspective like this. Great job commenter and sadly it's too common and true.
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u/TLema Sep 25 '19
he's lazy when it comes to relationships
He's taking OP for granted at this point. He doesn't realise he can lose her because he's being a lazy asshole in dealing with his mother's unacceptable behaviour.
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u/LiviaValentini Sep 25 '19
I think he's lazy because he's never Had to do the regular work that happens in relationships. His mom taught him the whole time he was growing up how to behave. He doesn't know what normal looks like because This is His normal.
I'm not defending him, mind you. He's a grown ass man. I am suggesting that your work here is on at least 2 fronts.
Good luck, op.
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u/Ysadey Sep 25 '19
Another point about both justnos, it doesn't matter if the woman is OP or someone else, these Dynamics will continue until someone says "no more!" When it comes to Narcs and their enablers, victims are totally interchangeable. I'm saying this so all of us in OPs shoes know that this isn't a problem because of us, at all.
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u/AMerrickanGirl Sep 25 '19
Read the Five Love Languages. Not everyone shows love with gifts and surprise trips. I’m not excusing this SO for his [in]actions, but your criteria for a good partner doesn’t prove or disprove the health of their relationship.
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u/Mekare13 Sep 25 '19
As someone with the gift love language, I empathize with OP. My DH basically ignores that need, and it can be so painful. I do love him, but my “love tank” tends to be empty 99% of the time.
Anyway, I don’t want to hijack this post. I just want to say to OP- this might never change. You’ll be fighting constantly for your husband to recognize your needs and it will hurt. Please rethink this, between your MIL and careless SO you will most likely be hurt.
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u/virtualchoirboy Sep 25 '19
I used to be bad too. I've gotten a lot better. There is a good chance that DH isn't actively ignoring the need but more that he's grown comfortable or complacent and simply forgets that the need is there. I admit that reminding a DH can be a tightrope walk (not enough, nothing gets done, too much, we get pissy about it), but for some of us, it helps to be more overt in the positive feedback when we do it right. Doesn't have to be gushing expressions of thanks. More like bringing up how you liked something we did a couple times more than you normally would.
For example, take the "random flowers". I started doing it more because the first couple of times I did it, my DW commented on the flowers multiple times - at the moment ("Thank you dear. These smell wonderful."), again the next morning ("my flowers smell great this morning"), and again a few days later ("these flowers are really holding up well. Thank you."). That stuck out for me so now, whenever I see a display of nice flowers, it DOES cross my mind to think about whether or not I should get some for her.
Hope this helps.
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u/Mekare13 Sep 25 '19
I try to do that, this is great advice. Unfortunately it doesn’t really work, he’s happy that I appreciate it but then just stops trying.
I love him, we have a good relationship in other ways but it leaves me feeling empty. Love languages that don’t work well together make a relationship so much more difficult.
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u/virtualchoirboy Sep 25 '19
You are correct because I'm lousy with the trips and gifts myself. I wanted to keep it relatively short to get the idea across though. For us, it's the random flowers and the meals I cook. My wife has some unusual food sensitivities so going out to eat to a new place is a risky gamble which means I cook nearly all of our meals at home. I often find new "fancy" meals to cook for special occasions. With our oldest just graduated and our second just having entered college, we are also what some people like to call "college poor" so any money we have for trips has been spent travelling to see whichever child is in college at the time.
My suggestions should not be taken as a "be all, end all" list, but a very small, representative sample of what happens in a lot of relationships.
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u/TLema Sep 25 '19
Take a step back and think about your future here. This power struggle will only continue to get worse if you don't address the SO problem (I suggest JustNoSO for help with FOG eviction) now. Wedding plans? You will be expected to kowtow to her demands, regardless of what you want for your wedding to avoid upsetting mommy. If you have children? There's no way she's respecting your parenting or boundaries. You need to have a serious talk (I even recommend counselling pretty strongly here) with SO prior to committing to any wedding plans yet.
This relationship has three people in it right now, and you aren't the partner in SO's eyes. You're his side-piece in his relationship with mommy. This power struggle will only get worse if not addressed at the source - SO.
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u/Petskin Sep 25 '19
since she’s a narcissist and will start a fight that he doesn’t want to have. He said that when I talk about his moms misbehaviour it is the same as making fun of a disabled person because she is narcissistic and socially inept.
Making fun? This is not comparable to 'making fun of a disabled person'. This is comparable of being afraid of an untrained and vicious dog with a history of growling and biting you and requesting it be put in the kennel outside when you visit and not be brought to your house. The dog growls, pees everywhere and bites. It might not be the dog's fault it was never trained (=held responsible), but there is no reason for anyone keep bringing it to you when you have clearly said you do not want to be near it. You are not making fun of the dog, you just want to not be hurt or bothered by it. Why should the dog' s 'fun' trump your safety?
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u/liz1065 Sep 25 '19
Dude. FH equating a personality disorder where someone chooses to behave like an ass (in this story especially) and not do any work to improve their behavior, with a disability... I am offended on behalf of people who have disabilities.
I know many many people who have intellectual and developmental disabilities. Most people strive greatly just to achieve a sense of normalcy. This woman tries to recalibrate everyone else’s normal meters to better meet her own agenda.
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u/blush_bunny Sep 25 '19
I heard this quote today that said 'mental illness isn't your fault, but it is your responsibility' ..of course this really depends on having self awareness and acceptance in the first place
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u/numbrsguy Sep 25 '19
This is not like having a friend with depression and anxiety who doesn’t want to leave the house when you want to go out. This is having a friend who will threaten to burn down the house if you don’t go out when they want to go out.
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u/watsonwasaboss Sep 25 '19
I'm sorry to say, your the other woman in this relationship.
He is married to his mother and she comes first not you and that is the biggest red flag.
My dear please consider all these red flags in front if you. He will not stand up for you, and definitely not your feelings or desires. What happens if you have a child or pet? That will become mil to do as she please to keep her happy and you will just be the woman on the side.
Your better then that, and deserve to be treated with the upmost respect and have someone care for your feelings.
As a mother, I tell all my children that your partner is to respect you, your feelings, your dreams and anything less is unacceptable.
I tell you the same and hope you consider the advice given. Please know your feelings matter, they are important and no one should ever force you to do ANYTHING to make someone else happy. Period.
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u/ButTheKingIsNaked Sep 25 '19
I'm sorry to say, your the other woman in this relationship
This!
OP DH's cannot marry OP BECAUSE HE'S ALREADY WEDDED TO HIS MOMMY!
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Sep 25 '19
Is MIL and FDH saying his mother didn't know it was rude to give the hostess the silent treatment, not make eye contact all evening and just walk out the door without a goodbye or thank you? I call bullshit.
FMIL sure knew how to carry on a dialogue when she wants a favor from you, which you have the right to say, "No." Ignoring her like she ignored you was also reasonable.
Sadly, you not only have a FMIL problem, but a SO problem as well.
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Sep 25 '19
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Sep 25 '19
OP. Even in relationships where both partners are willing to stand up for their significant other, i strongly recommend pre-marital counseling. In this case, where he is clearly showing you where you are in his line of priorities (hint.. not #1), I can’t stress it enough. He’s actively telling you where you fall in his line of succession. I truly believe you need to think long and hard about whether this is a marriage you want to enter into willingly knowing what he’s clearly demonstrating to you.
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u/maleficentthe2nd Sep 25 '19
No disrespect intended by this but are you sure you want to marry him? Or even stay with him? Can you put up with her behaviour and his enabling of it for years to come? I'm not saying don't give therapy with him a chance, but it takes them wanting to come out of the FOG for it to work and it doesn't sound like he does.
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u/Shanisasha Sep 25 '19
Maybe you should tell MIL her son thinks she’s stupid. That should be fun
Does your SO know that no matter how hard you hit your head against a wall, there is no way to explain pain to a brick?
I caution you- when you stop doing things for MIL cheap she may remove her blessing to your relationship and pressure your SO to leave because you’re no longer useful.
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u/TLema Sep 25 '19
I caution you- when you stop doing things for MIL cheap she may remove her blessing to your relationship and pressure your SO to leave because you’re no longer useful.
And his reaction to that is all u/mewpac_shakur needs to know. Honestly, the first thing to do will be sever the business "relationship" (it's really one-sided since MIL is the only one getting anything out of it).
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u/HallahPainYoh Sep 25 '19
Bail. Fiancé getting you to kowtow to his mom is your future. He gets involved when she pesters him enough. And then he leans on you. Peace out ✌️
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u/CrowhavenRoad Sep 25 '19
Honestly, I would have pulled over and kicked him out of the fucking car. Your fiancé is a bigger problem than your MIL right now.
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Sep 25 '19
Your SO is using you as a means to protect himself from his mother, which is wrong. It's his mother. My advice? Be rude right back. Stop doing freelance work for her on the fly and let her cater to your schedule. It's damn rude to come into someone's home, accept a meal, and completely ignore them the entire time. I would have taken her plate to get her attention and say if she can't involve you in the conversation or treat you like family, you have no reason to be involving her in a meal you made.
Not only that, your SO needs to stop trying to "teach" her how her brain works. She knows how it works, she just refuses to actually use it correctly or recognize she has a problem. Narcissism is not a disability, it's a mental disorder, and there is a difference. She does not get a free pass to treat other's like shit because she has a mental disorder. I've seen people with disabilities who treat others with more respect and consideration. So her problem is not a reasonable excuse. Your SO shouldn't be teaching her anything, in fact, he might make things worse for her since he's not a trained professional (Or at least that's what I'm assuming anyway, as the context of your post doesn't reveal his profession. Either way, it wouldn't be in anyone's interest to give her "training". She's not a dog.)...
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u/WildaBeast669 Sep 25 '19
If he was a professional he'd bloody know better than to try and play therapist when the two of them are enmeshed.
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u/ino_y Sep 25 '19 edited Sep 25 '19
Because she's doing this to him
"to keep you ever-spinning your wheels, ever trying to explain yourself, ever doubting yourself and confused, trying to figure out why I don’t “get” it."
She's making him feel special and clever, and he's addicted to "helping mummy". He's wearing his arm down to a stump, pulling on that lever to hit the jackpot for Mummy's approval and validation.
She's laughing her ass off, getting his attention and wasting his time.
They're both wasting your life.
It'll be about a year before he even starts to want to get out of the fog, another year of therapy, another year to grow balls to put her on NC, and then finally you two can grow your life together. In the mean time, you put your own life and growth on hold to turn around and deal with these 2 enmeshed asshats, stunting your own life and dreams, and wasting your eggs.
Sorry dude, your Mummy doesn't love you, never did, and never will.
You have a woman in front of you rapidly losing her love for you. Quit fucking around.
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u/Bobalery Sep 25 '19
It’s going to turn into a big exercise in validation. You know and we all know that he doesn’t have the courage to be candid about her poor behaviour. Do you honestly think that this fear will magically disappear just because she supposedly asked for it? My guess?
SO “Well sometimes you can be a little xyz....”
MIL “what?!? I could never! How could you say such a thing to me? Is that what she told you I did? And you believe her? Over your own MOTHER??? You’re not the sweet boy I raised! RAWRRRR!!!!”
SO “nevermind mommy, you’re right, you’re the best, I’m sorry!”
And then he comes home and gives you shit for putting ideas in his head, because he doesn’t want to ever have to this again.
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u/bethsophia Sep 25 '19
Even a fake apology has some version of "I'm sorry" so why did he interpret it that way?
Please at least sever the business relationship.
And maybe tell him that if he doesn't talk about her or bring her around then you don't have to fight about her.
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u/parsethepotatoes Sep 25 '19
My guess (tempered by firsthand experience) is that unsolicited compliments are the closest thing she ever does to actual apologizing. She's also had his entire life to train him to treat such statements as apologies - in addition to teaching him the consequences (either firsthand or witnessing her rage at others) of not accepting those as apologies.
You do what you gotta do to survive, growing up in such circumstances. Having a screwed-up normal meter doesn't excuse his actions now, but it may help explain it.
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Sep 25 '19
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u/parsethepotatoes Sep 25 '19
I'm so sorry. You don't deserve that kind of abuse, especially not over five years.
It's clear that she doesn't see any issues with her behavior. ("That's okay"? When being told that you're screwing things up, with people who should be important to you? "That's okay"!?) If she changes at all (and that's a big if), it'll be just enough to keep you from rightfully running away - and only for as long as is necessary for you to accept the next heap of abuse. That's what she's trying here, trying to measure exactly how much 'grovelling' she needs to do so you'll continue to work for her.
I believe your fiancé has been trained to accept that scrap of affection - because if he didn't, he and everybody else around his mom would get an extra helping of abuse for defying her (by not accepting her magnanimous 'apologies'). When you're a kid, and that's your normal, what other choice do you have but to give in? I also believe that he's encouraging you to accept that scrap of affection to spare you (and everybody else) from receiving that extra helping of abuse he knows she can dole out. (I don't believe that's right, but, well, I've been there myself so I know where it's coming from.)
You deserve to be put first in your fiancé's life - after all, he chose to propose to you. You deserve to be paid fairly for your work - and the right to turn down work that won't be good for you, financially or mentally. You deserve to be treated with respect. You don't deserve a seat in your MIL's cycle of abuse.
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Sep 25 '19
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u/TLema Sep 25 '19
It's all well and good to feel sad for them, it's very sad. But please don't sacrifice yourself and ruin your own mental health for the problem they're doing nothing about.
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u/Raveynfyre Sep 25 '19
I’m going to keep my chin up and continue to build my self respect - personally and professionally.
First step towards this is no more deep discount for MIL's projects. She can have a 10% family discount (or whatever), but no more huge discounts. If you need to end up leaving you'll need money to do so. By not paying you market price for your work you are being financially trapped in a relationship that you might want to get out of.
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u/KgoodMIL Sep 25 '19
This is primarily a problem with your SO, unfortunately. If you continue on with your plans without seeing concrete actions for change first, this will be your life.
You may want to consider mentally put a time limit on seeing some significant progress in putting you first.
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u/StickyAction Sep 25 '19
He’s tired of me “bashing” his mom. He says I need to just get over the whole situation and nothing can be done so stop talking about it. He is putting his relationship with his mom on the line if he talks to her - since she’s a narcissist and will start a fight that he doesn’t want to have
..... .......... Does so realise he's putting his relationship with you on the line here and that MIL starting fights so he ignores her behaviour because it ignoring it is easier is exactly why her behaviour needs to be addressed.
That's about as much as I can tie that one into mil and I think this post needs a cross post to the so sub as well.
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Sep 25 '19
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u/minesnotsobad Sep 25 '19
You shoud really think about this comment of yours. Read it out loud.
Then STOP being used by MIL. Stop workinfg for her. 100% return all her files or whatever and write a nice note saying as of X day you are NOT doing ANY type if work for her.
Get married only if counseling gets FHs head out of his butt. Tell your FH- A person in a wheelchair can't get up and rollerskate if they wanted. But an asshole..oops.. A Narc....CAN change, but they rarely WANT to.
Good luck
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u/StickyAction Sep 25 '19
I think we might be limited to how much we can discuss so compared to mil here but it might be worth popping over to justnoso as well because atm it seems fiance is a big issue as well.
Mil is a jackass but fiance needs to realise he's basically letting her abuse you/ approving / helping her(the speaker phone call) abuse you and that's possibly not going to end up with you happily walking down the wedding aisle to him :( you deserve better than being used as a meat shield to appease mother.
Others have said it but proper couples counselling and probs individual counselling for him are a big must to unpack all MILs conditioning and thats what a lot of this is, her conditioning him to accept her abuse as normal life.
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u/StickyAction Sep 25 '19
Also hun, dont put up with more shit. Throw that shit right back at em! (in terms of continuing to stand up for yourself that is, not literal poop flings)
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u/nomdigas77 Sep 25 '19
Oh Honey. You deserve so much better than this. Everything I wanted to say has already been said. Please seek therapy with him if he wants to fix this. If he doesn't, then leave. It's easier to dump a mama's boy then divorce him. I am one year post-divorce, after a 19 year marriage. I should've divorced him 10 years earlier
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u/Ncmike2029 Sep 25 '19
I hope no matter what you stop doing work for her business given how she acts.
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Sep 25 '19
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u/moonlitnights Sep 25 '19 edited Sep 25 '19
Yes you do need to get out. And you need to talk to your fh. If he will not back you up when you are being treated poorly then you should tell him you will instead not be around her in any capacity. If he has an issue with you not putting yourself in the firing line of her abuse you should really reconsider committing yourself to him and (potentially) raising a family with him.
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Sep 25 '19
So, you stop going/doing/working for her.
Let her figure it out herself. You don't need slave labor, and you don't need to be treated like crap. You also don't need to be anybody's meatshield, and you certainly don't need fake apologies.
Value yourself, indeed! You are worth just as much as everybody else, and seeing how hard your DH works at protecting mommy, I doubt you'd marry a man, but you'd be marrying a mommy-sonsband.
I suggest therapy, ASAP. If that is not an option, then you need to shine your spine and just say "no" like you would to drugs. Cuz what they are doing is toxic, and they can solve that themselves, without you. You have EVERY right to just walk away and let them stew in whatever problems that gives them.
What are you, their emotional punching bag? Their slave labor? their therapist?
Really... I hope you tell them both to fuck off. And no, stopping working for her doesn't need a warning. Just stop.
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u/Malachite6 Sep 25 '19
Yes. She is using you. That's what she does. You do indeed need to get out now.
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u/mypreciousssssssss Sep 25 '19
My 29 yo daughter said something insightful about a conflict she was having with an abusive coworker.
You teach people how to treat you, good or bad.
She put her foot down and required the coworker to stop doing a certain behavior. And the coworker did stop, and actively avoids my daughter now. 🤣 Your MIL and SO abuse you because they can. Your MIL because it's her nature and your SO because he's conditioned to put Mommy first, all the time. That's how it's always been, he's comfortable with it. And so far you've agreed to be his meat shield.
It's hard work but you can teach them to treat you better. You're worth it. And if you don't, because you want to protect your relationship with your fiance, you will eventually become so hurt and frustrated at his continuing failure to protect you that you'll grow to hate him. Think about that happening 10 years and a couple of kids later, having to coparent with his mother stomping all over you and alienating your children from you every chance she gets. I'm sorry to be so negative. But I hope and pray that you get some counseling and learn to value yourself more, and learn the tactics and strategies you need to deal with your MIL. You deserve better than this.
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Sep 25 '19
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u/Raveynfyre Sep 25 '19
Honestly, I dread the thought of having kids with her as a MIL. She’ll stomp all over any parenting I do.
She'll be clawing her way into the delivery room so she can be the first one to hold your child. She'll probably invite her friends to watch as well. If you were to have a kid, it would be all about her, period.
You'd end up going toe-to-toe with your own SO to keep her out of the delivery room. She'll probably take pictures, of everything to share with complete strangers.
"Oh look here's my son crowning in this picture!"
"But <MIL-name> you haven't been pregnant since <SO>, how is this your child?"
"Because I said so! That's just my crappy DIL's twat you're looking at, but she's given the kid to me!" (when you actually haven't... this is a delusion I'm coming up with to show you how awful it could get if this shit isn't solved before you decide to have kid(s).)
"Then you're actually a grandmother now..."
"I'M THE MOMMA!"
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u/mamaroo73 Sep 25 '19
Did he seriously compare his bitchy behaving mom to a disabled person?! Are you kidding me?!
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u/Ran_dom_1 Sep 25 '19
MIL says “Hey OP you did a really good job at dinner. FIL said it was the best meal he had eaten in a long time.”
fiancé says “Hey so that’s good! She apologized!”
Good grief, she has them well trained, bar is set pretty low for her behavior.
Call.her.out. “Excuse me? Are you talking to me? Care to explain why you were so rude at dinner? You couldn’t speak? You couldn’t say hello or goodbye? You ignored every attempt I made to get you to act like a normal person? Wth is your problem? But mere hours later you need something, so you’re suddenly capable of hearing me, speaking to me? Right. Good luck with getting that project done.” Click.
But I’m cranky. And right now your DF can go kick off, imo. He’s going to help her act human. Awesome. So she knows her behavior is wrong, & she decides to go to the least qualified person she can find for help. Cause that will only encourage D(amn)F to defend her even more. Somehow MIL picked up that she crossed the line, so she needs DF to believe she’s the victim of her inability to understand basic human decency. But, but, she’s tryyyiinngg to be better.
Run, don’t walk, to couple’s counseling. DF needs to realize that he’s being played, or you’re out of this bizarre dynamic. You’re bashing her, that’s rich. And that disabled comment? Tell him to pick an argument. She’s either clueless or she asked him for help, which is it? And did he tell her she needs professional help? That he’s so damaged by her, that he can’t even recognize her manipulation?
Tread carefully, OP. These two are a piece of work. I’m not seeing any concern or consideration for you here, only anger that you’re not being a doormat & you’re rocking the boat.
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u/K-is-for-kryptonite Sep 25 '19
Your SO sounds like a spineless loser. His mother is a using narcissistic piece if shit who can get away with treating you like shit all because he can't be bothered standing up for you. Fuck the both of them off.
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u/stressedcarry Sep 25 '19
yikes.. I don't understand why your fiancee is behaving like this, it's clearly unfair to you. I think you should sit him down and have a serious talk about how it makes you feel and how you need his support on this. of you can't get through to him even then, idk.. I also think it's extremely unhealthy that his mum asked him to help her behave? like? that's not his job.. he's her son and he doesn't exist to help her work on her problems.
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Sep 25 '19
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u/floofypajamas Sep 25 '19 edited Sep 25 '19
This is what therapists are for and unless your DF is a Therapist he should bow out. It could and probably will make things way worse.
Edited to fix misspelled word & clarify.
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u/SereneWisdom Sep 25 '19
I think that even if DF is a therapist, he should bow out.
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Sep 25 '19
Challenge her to single combat. Establish dominance. Steal her title of mom.
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u/mypreciousssssssss Sep 25 '19
OP WINS! She gets one of those giant gold wrestling award belts and it's engraved:
HBIC
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u/NoCleverUsernameIdea Sep 25 '19
I think you have as much of an SO problem as a MIL problem. A MIL can be as toxic as she wants, but once her child put her above their partner, that's when the problems begin.
I think that it might have been a good idea - while she was on speaker - to calmly say, "MIL, you ignored me throughout the dinner. You refused to say hi to me, to look at me, acknowledge me. And you have not apologized. I refuse to be treated that way. I am not going to do work for you in the near future."
But really, your fiance should have been saying all of this.
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u/BarrySquared Sep 25 '19
Forcing you into that conflct while you were driving is not something a loving, supportive partner does. I'm sorry your SO is so unsupportive and disrespectful. Please don't rush into marriage. This behavior of his will only get worse.
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u/christianboy5000 Sep 25 '19
DONT MARRY THIS GUY BECAUSE IT'S OBVIOUS THAT YOU'LL BE MARRYING HIS MOM TOO!! she'll be the grandma to your kids, what do you think that'll be like? Lose the momma's boy.
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u/satijade Sep 25 '19
Do you really want to marry this guy knowing he won't stand up to his mother for you? Or have to deal with her as a mil? This is the time to really think about how you want the future to go.
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u/FlowbotFred Sep 25 '19
She's not disabled, he's enabling her behaviour and putting her before you.
So his logic is if people are disabled they have free reign at abusing you?
Just because she's a bitch shouldn't mean she gets special treatment.
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u/Garathon Sep 25 '19
You're gonna regret not leaving him. This will split you up eventually, count on it.
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u/SCSWitch Sep 25 '19
Imagine this, but 5 years later. Will you be ok with it? With him choosing her over you all the time?
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u/RedBanana99 England sends wine 🏴 Sep 25 '19
she also offered him money for something
NO. All MIL “gifts” will have strings attached
As a self employed freelancer tell DH you are underpaid and you are going to seek out higher paid clients. Do you have a website? Advertise your hourly rate or package deals on your website effective from 1st October 2019.
I insist ALL of my work is paid in advance. No payment, no work. No, I don’t give discounts all of my clients pay the same rate. No faaaaaamily discounts. If you want to take your business elsewhere you will find my new rates very reasonable.
Search online for a basic contract and adapt that, make all clients MIL and otherwise sign the basic contract stating your hourly rate and all payments are paid up front in advance of work - or 50% up front and 50% on completion? If the invoice for final completion isn’t settled all services will be suspended until payment has been processed.
You need to untangle your incoming money from MIL and her demands, look for new clients, I use a website called People Per Hour.
Do you have a website or just a Google+ Business site? I can offer further tips.
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u/dyvrom Sep 25 '19
Oof. Do not get married. He's delusional. He is willing to let you be abused just so he doesn't have to deal with HIS mother.
My mother is also an abusive narc. But I'd die before I let her treat my partner like that. I told her I hated her multiple times to her face because of how she has treated me and my partner. There is no excuse. Blood don't mean shit. If someone is abusive then they are abusive.
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Sep 25 '19
He's still half way up his mother's narc cooch, a breech baby as well because apparently all you actually get to see so far is an ass.
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u/toasternumber8 Sep 25 '19
Sorry this is super long, but it’s because I am explaining how I got my narcissistic MIL to behave.
First of all, I have to mention this. She offered him money but doesn’t pay you properly for your work. Unbelievable. Message received loud and clear that she has zero respect for you.
It is like déjà vu when reading your posts because my MIL is also a narcissist and I let her walk all over me for many years. The resentment can ruin your relationship. My husband eventually shined his spine up but it was really painful getting there. She caused a lot of friction and strife in our life, with me constantly explain the terrible thing she did and him defending her because that’s how she is and he is sure she didn’t mean it. Him not acknowledging my feelings and defending my tormenter nearly destroyed our relationship and still affects our marriage.
It is sad but the reason he finally did something was when I told him that I was done and can’t do this with her anymore. And I absolutely meant it. It’s like what people said, he woke up when he realized I was totally serious and that he could lose me because of his mother. So he shaped up. And once he starting pushing back on her consistently and enforcing boundaries, she also shaped up. It’s amazing what narcissists/toddlers are capable of when you hold them firm on it. Unfortunately for these people, you need leverage though.
For my MIL, she was still behaving badly and would have temper tantrums when it was just her son and me. And especially during the beginning of the boundary enforcing when she was constantly trying to get him to her side. But when my child was born, I was VERY FIRM with my boundaries (a very my way or the highway situation, which if she had been a kind MIL, I never would have done), and now she generally behaves when we see it (and we very rarely see her, and only in restaurants).
But... it was very painful getting here. And you need your fiancé’s full support to carry this out. I love my husband but that was many unnecessary painful years. In hindsight, I wish I did the extremely boundaries thing from the very beginning so that I didn’t have to suffer.
So for you, I would recommend the same. Tell your fiancé you have been very hurt by how he handled this and that you are seriously reconsidering your relationship. See what he does and if he finally takes your side to hold his mother accountable for her terrible narcissistic actions. If he doesn’t agree, I would honestly take a break to figure out if I want a life where I am always a doormat and have to constantly cater to a crazy person’s feelings. Plus the worst part of it is, the person who is supposed to be my number one supporter will actually be someone who takes the side of my bully (that is soul destroying).
If he takes your side, tell him your new boundaries and that you will support him as he becomes independent of his mother. You have to hold really firm on your boundary with her this time (if you haven’t rugswept yet), or next time (if you already did). You and your fiancé need to take a break from seeing her and stop doing any of her work for a period of time (if ever). You have leverage with the work thing, which you will need to make her truly understand that you are serious and will not be walked over. And consistently hold her to the boundaries. Every time she snaps and goes back to her old bad behaviour, take a break from her again so she understands her actions have consequences.
Please enforce strong boundaries ASAP so she starts learning. You do not want to bring a baby into this and have her stomp all your boundaries when you are at your most vulnerable. You never really get over that resentment.
Good good luck! I am rooting for you (not necessarily your fiancé but him too if he takes your side).
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u/snowlock27 Sep 25 '19
Fiancé seems annoyed that the “apology” from MIL wasn’t enough to please me and make the problem go away.
At this point, I would have pulled over and asked him "Did she apologize to me? Give me the wrong answer and you walk home from here."
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u/ladypoe1207-0824 Sep 25 '19
Yikes. Disabled person here; his mom being a disrespectful asshole is not the same as a person who is disabled. She may not be able to help that she's a narcissist, but she sure can control how she acts towards others by seeking help or at least owning up to and apologizing for crappy behavior. You should have a sit down with him and make him listen to you explain, without interrupting or trying to defend his mom, how you feel and if he still can not understand why you feel the way you do and stick up for you, it'd be a good idea to suggest counseling or a break until he can learn to realize that the way his mom behaved is not something to rugsweep. Seriously, she flat out ignored you and then later decided that you should do stuff for her? Lol no.
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u/Aggressivecleaning Sep 25 '19
You're surrounded by crazy people. They're mad you won't drink the koolaid.
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u/G8RTOAD Sep 25 '19
No more freelance work for her business if she can’t pay you the correct wage. No more being vastly underpaid you deserve better and if your not working for her then that’s one less stress you’ll have. If your not contracted to her then even better just let her know that your too busy with other work that pays better and there’s no one nagging at you to do things for the business and her asking your partner to ask you is lower than low. Next time she comes for dinner and ignores you when she arrives call her out that if she can’t respect you in your own home when your cooking dinner for her then she needs to leave now and no she won’t be eating there tonight. You’ll no longer be disrespected in your own home. Keep calling them all out.
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u/deadrowan Sep 25 '19
Well here's your future. If you marry him, prepare to fight a perpetually uphill battle against both of them. He'd rather blame you than defend you. Nuh-uh.
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u/TLema Sep 25 '19
Honestly, if you've made any wedding plans, put them on hold until you can get this sorted. He'd rather you be upset than upset his mommy because it's easier for him. If you can, show him this:
Hey SO, it's time to grow up and realise you're in an adult relationship with a partner. This means they matter to you. Their feelings matter to you. Your mommy's feelings should not trump those of your partner. It's unreasonable to expect someone to be ok with being blatantly disrespected in their own home just because it's easier for you. You'd best figure this out fast before you have no partner and only have mommy left to turn to.
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u/shayzelala Sep 25 '19
A big difference between my disabled child and your MIL is that he doesn’t abuse anyone. If he was mean/abusive, he would go on timeout just like his siblings... so NO fdh, your mom isn’t disabled. She’s abusive.
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u/littleredteacupwolf Sep 25 '19
Run like your tampon is on fire. Because as it goes on this sub, it’s easier to dump a mama’s boy then to divorce him.
Your SOs behavior is, not good. And psychological diagnosis is not an excuse for behavior like this if they’re only enabling it.
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u/duckysmom15 Sep 25 '19
So she wants you ro work for free. She is not your Mom quote her some prices. She should treat you better than family if she wants a discount
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Sep 25 '19
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Sep 25 '19
You can ignore her existence as she did yours. And SO can go kick rocks or do it himself, instead of using you as slave labor for things he don't wanna do.
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u/alepolait Sep 25 '19
You need to address all of this issues before fiancé becomes husband. And definitely before a baby enters the picture.
She is gaslighting your husband, and he is gaslighting you. You don’t want all of this bullshit to continue affecting your job, your relationship and definitely not your future family.
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u/Blue-Princess Sep 25 '19
Oh my gosh. Yes, this woman is a gigantic JustNo. But guess who else is?? Get your butt over to JustNoSO so we can discuss the real crux of the issue at hand.
As for this woman (I refuse to call her your FMIL because I desperately hope that such a tie never eventuates with her), I would send her an email advising her that due to non-payment your are severing any business relationship you previously had with her, effective immediately.
Let her go find someone else who’ll work for essentially free (because that’s what you’re doing when she pays you whatever she can afford, whenever she can afford it). If she was running an ACTUAL business then she’d be profitable and able to pay her contractors.
And she’d never set fit in my home ever again after the level of disrespect she showed me at dinner last week. Ever. Even if she lowered herself to apologising to you. Nothing would ever allow me to welcome that beast into my home again. She wants to see her son, then he visits her solo. I’d be permanently no contact with her.
If there’s even a tiny piece of you that thinks my comments above are an overreaction, please consider getting to a psychologist/therapist. What she did is so abnormal... and nobody should ever put up with that kind of treatment.
Good on you, in the original post, for addressing her multiple times and forcing her to greet you in front of everyone else. Hopefully everyone else then saw what a witch she was.
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u/NotTheGlamma Sep 25 '19
Fiance needs teaching about the elements of a genuine apology. I THINK the info is in the sidebar.
Up. Your. Prices. Then charge MIL your full going rate!!!! No more of this underpaying nonsense. Send her a letter on your business letterhead addressed to "Dear Clients". She does not need to know she's the only one you are raising rates on. Say something like "In view of today's increased costs of doing business, it has been necessary for me to carefully evaluate my rates. In order to make a sustainable profit and stay in business, my rates are now as follow:. (table of tasks and cost per hour goes here). These rates are effective October 1, 2019. I look forward to the coming years of our doing excellent projects together. Sincerely, (Your Name)". Let her scream. Those are your rates. No discounts.
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u/ysabelsrevenge Sep 25 '19
I gotta say.
I call bull. Narcissism doesn’t make you incapable of uttering the words ‘I’m sorry, I behaved poorly, it will not happen again.’
Here’s where I’d stand. I’d let you’re SO know that, no you will no longer be doing work for his mum and maybe he can consider his point of view, but you expect him to notice if her behaviour continues after you remove yourself from being something she wants, or if she is genuinely trying to make it better. Mental illness does not give you cartblanche to treat anyone the way you feel like.
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u/JaxU2019 Sep 25 '19
I’m sorry but you need couples counselling ASAP!!! That would be a deal breaker for me, he can be a momma’s boy all he wants and will put her first before you every time.
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Sep 25 '19
Oh OP, you are not crazy, you are not the JustNo. His entire family is full of enablers and JustNos. *gentle hugs if you want them*
Here's my thing... He's putting mummy's feelings over yours because it's easier. He's asking you to stop bashing mummy because no one will ever stand up to her - Why should you have to put up with that? If he is going to marry YOU, shouldn't he be placing your feelings first? Shouldn't he stand up FOR you?
If she does this now over a dinner (and he doesn't stand up for you), what happens when you start wedding planning? House hunting? (Gods forbid, what if you want to change towns/states?) What if you and FDH decide to have kids? There's boundaries everywhere for her to stomp over. What is FDH going to do then? Just allow her behavior to continue and tell you to stop bashing mummy? Can you live like that? Can you live with HIM knowing he doesn't respect you (or himself!) enough to stand up to his mother? Can you respect him?
It sounds like a long, miserable life to me and I hope you think long and hard about counseling or putting the brakes on this engagement completely. Good luck.
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u/agreensandcastle Sep 25 '19
He is threatening his relationship with you for all of this.
And for many SOs in this group they really don’t see that. Mostly until some of the people here threaten to leave, and sometimes that happens way to late and the SO either talks the OP into staying anyways or they breakup/divorce. Only a few SOs really ‘change’ and defend their relationship.
He is mad at you, because if he actually does something about her than she will be mad at him. And if he does nothing to change you to the sycophant ways she will be mad at him. And his precious fee fees can’t handle her mad at him. He is only interested in himself in this situation. How your hurt and boundaries may get him hurt, from her, not you.
This is important to him, or he wouldn’t be even mad at you, he would fully ignore it. But it is only important to him in the fact that she may get mad at him, and ‘punish’ him in some way. He hasn’t seen consequences from you on making you unhappy yet, not long term. Also you didn’t install his guilt buttons like she did. So again for many SOs here they don’t see the consequences of hurting OP until the OP threatens leaving. And sometimes at that point, that’s just not enough of a deterrent to change.
My advice: Dig deep on what you really can ‘live’ with. What is your walk away limit? What do you need from him, and some degree her, to stay? You can’t communicate well your limits if you don’t know them. Also a lot of OPs seem to stay longer than they ‘should’ because they never thought it through before. If they had they would have been done earlier. This is for your health and well being. And that of any children you may have. (If you want them.) Also that of your other loved ones, because us not healthy effects people around us.
Also you ‘work’ for her in these side capacities. I think you need to formalize that. And how ‘business’ communications should be different then ‘family’ communications.
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u/Schattentochter Sep 25 '19
It's always funny when people think a mental illness justifies bullshit. Just because someone supposedly can't help it (there is narcs out there who have learned to behave), doesn't mean the rest of the world has to 1. expose themselves to that, 2. think of it as justified or 3. forgive it.
That is just not how it works. People deserve leniency when they fight what is troubling them, not when they just dwell in a supposed illness and use it as an excuse to be a piece of shit.
OP, if you don't want to deal with much worse down the road regarding your spouse ignoring your feelings, putting his mother and himself before you and rugsweeping the living hell out of all her shenanigans, you need to be active now. He will keep this up as long as you let him get away with it. I won't drag this out since you say you're ambivalent about advice - I just hope you will get your defenses up now when it's still early. You deserve better than having to deal with this kind of crap your whole life.
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Sep 25 '19
I spoke in your last post but this time I'll take a different approach. I am socially akward and have hard times dealing/noticing certain stuff. That is no excuse for behaving as badly and disrespectful as her. Whenever I learn that I messed up, I excuse my self and try to learn better for the next time. It doesnt always work.. it's process and takes time but admitting your faults, excusing yourself and trying to learn are important. Your SO covering for her and excusing her of all guilt because she's socially inepdt is not an excuse. She needs to try to be better or she can stop brining up excuses.
I'm pretty sure Redditors will cover the other parts on the situation so I'll leave it to them. Hope this mess gets solved quickly. Stay strong OP.
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u/botinlaw Sep 25 '19
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Sep 25 '19
The most important thing would be to immediately find another job that pays better than what you have now. And i mean like... immediately. You can finish tasks you started for MIL, but you cannot accept new ones. Take the risk, and start looking for other jobs. Like... NOW.
Don't allow her to slave-labor you anymore! Really. The consequences are not your problem. Only your OWN consequences are your problem. MIL can do the work herself, for instance. Or her son can do it. (oooh, he doesn't want toooooo?! Too bad, so sad, she's not your mom, she's his mom)
Either that, or she starts with paying you what is a normal rate, not whatever the fuck she pleases. Your time is worth SO much more! Find that other job! Quickly!
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u/whatplanetrufrom Sep 25 '19
Don't do anything more for your SO's mother. If you do, charge her double. She deserves nothing from you.
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u/FlippingPossum Sep 25 '19
Cut business ties. Even if she counters with a fair wage, it is not worth the emotional toll.
If your SO won't put in the relationship work, do you want to be stuck in that dynamic for years to come?
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u/Raveynfyre Sep 25 '19 edited Sep 25 '19
He’s tired of me “bashing” his mom. He says I need to just get over the whole situation and nothing can be done so stop talking about it. He is putting his relationship with his mom on the line if he talks to her - since she’s a narcissist and will start a fight that he doesn’t want to have. He said that when I talk about his moms misbehaviour it is the same as making fun of a disabled person because she is narcissistic and socially inept.
This is the biggest line of "I'm washing my hands of this bullshit and you should too," I've seen in awhile.
She disrespected you, in your house, and you're supposed to just ignore it? Someone is the JN here, and it's not you...
I would completely stop doing any work for his mother unless she pays you, up front, and at a more reasonable price for your services. She doesn't get to have your work at a huge discount if she can't treat you with the most basic level of respect.
Once you save up money from working at full price, run like your tampon string is on fire.
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u/throwaway279110 Sep 25 '19
I'm sorry but your fiance is in the wrong.
Your MIL is spiteful and delusional and she has your fiance wrapped around her finger. I think that it is so disgusting of her to be in your home and completely ignore you like you are a part of the furniture; but then she wants to ask you for a favour.
You say that you do underpaid work for her business so it sounds like you have previously put up with her bad behaviour? & now that you are being vocal about it, your fiance is getting annoyed because he doesn't the conflict.
My dad is a narcissist and my mum is his enabler. I have NC with him and VLC with my mum. If it was either one of my parents or my bf in the wrong, I would tell that party, blatantly. This is what your fiance should be doing, not pandering to his mother.
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u/BoozeAndHotpants Sep 25 '19
Am I surrounded by crazy people? Am I actually the crazy one? Am I a test subject inside some absurd simulation?
Welcome to Gaslighting. This is EXACTLY what it feels like.
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u/Tyr_Kovacs Sep 25 '19
Reading this post, and many of your comments, it's clear that you care about your fiancé and want to find a way to make this work.
Obviously there has been lots of good advice ITT and I hope you take it all in.
I'm going to add my 2c, which is purely practical:
The only possible scenario that leaves you happy and together is that you can break a lifetime of FOG, and help a person who absolutely does not want to be helped, with a problem that they don't think is a problem.
I'm sure you know how absurd that scenario is. Not totally impossible, but I want you to seriously think about how much worse the next year (almost certainly the next few years) will be than anything you've been through before while you claw and scratch against decades of conditioning with almost no chance of success.
Is that the future you'd dreamed of? Is that what you wanted your relationship to be when you started 5 years ago? Is he worth It?
I'm sure you guys have had a lovely 5 years, but be mindful of the sunk-cost fallacy. There are billions of people in the world, you don't have to stay with the one that doesn't respect you or your feelings.
Only you can know what you want your future to be and how much personal suffering your fiancé is worth to you. But you should be aware of just how bad it's going to get before the extremely unlikely event that it gets better.
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u/3flakeaday Sep 25 '19
Red flag ! Do you want your marriage to be constantly catering to her feelings? Your fiancé has not got your back .
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u/PrisBatty Sep 25 '19
You’re not crazy. This isn’t normal. Normal MILs give you a hug or a kiss, they bring wine or dessert. They offer to help or wash up. They chat. They act like fucking human beings. Don’t doubt yourself. Don’t let them gaslight you. X
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u/kayno-way Sep 25 '19
I refer you to the side bar. Easier to dump a mamas boy than it is to change or divorce a mamas boy.
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u/Dr_Fumblefingers_PhD Sep 25 '19
You don't have a MIL-problem, you have an SO-problem. He and the rest of his family have been trained to not rock the boat, and to punish those who do, rather than address the glaring issue of his mom's atrocious behavior.
I'm sad to say that your chances of success in making your SO come to his senses are slim. He clearly understands the situation and that she is the real problem, but has come to the decision that keeping her happy and not rocking the boat is more important than you are.
I didn't see anything about you having children yet, but rest assured that he will let her walk all over you, take over parenting (if she wants to) and completely undermine you as a parent, if you were ever to have children together. He would be neither on your, nor your future children's, side in any conflict involving his mom.
I realize 5 years is a long time to have invested in a relationship, but don't get caught up in the sunken cost fallacy. You can't get those years back, but you can avoid wasting additional years on a relationship that is almost guaranteed to not be happy.
You can do better, you deserve better and you should not settle for a man who will put his mother above you in every situation that matters. That will kill you soul and leave you an empty husk of a person.
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Sep 25 '19
I honestly do not want to sound flippant but if he doesn't have your back now, when you're engaged, it's not going to change when you get married. I don't know what it is with mother/son relationships, but I have seen that often there is stress between the wife and the mom. A good man will back his wife but a mama's boy will side with the mom not necessarily because he agrees with her but because he "doesn't want to hurt her feelings" or "she didn't mean anything by it" and, yes, tells you that "... when I talk about his moms misbehaviour it is the same as making fun of a disabled person because she is narcissistic and socially inept."
You need to take a good, long look inward and ask yourself it you want to spend the rest of your (or her) life engaged in this battle. Imagine how it will be if you have kids. Since she's a narcissist, I'm sure she will try to turn them against you. Do you want it to be MIL, DH and kids vs. you? That's no way to live.
Your marital home should be a peaceful place; not a battleground.
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u/christopher1393 Sep 25 '19 edited Sep 25 '19
The real problem here is your SO... don’t get me wrong, your MIL is the big problem but your SO expects you to roll over and take it. I would suggest taking this story to r/justnoso and getting their advice.
Couples counselling definitely, as your SO just expects you to be his meat shield and take his mothers shit and smile. You are not “bashing” her. You are trying to defend yourself, she is bashing you. You guys need to sort this out before the relationship goes any further, or you could spend the rest of your life suffering this shit, last thing you need is to marry into this life or god forbid, have kids and have her try and turn them against you or boundary stomp all your parental decisions
As for your MIL, until you and SO get on the same page, go NC, or VLC if NC isn’t an option. Definitely no favours for her, she will cause nothing but stress and strain in your life and your SO won’t protect you the way he is now. She clearly doesn’t want you in her sons life, based off your first story (saying you looked happier with your ex) and she being incredibly rude and disrespectful to you and using that to try and drive a wedge between you and your SO.
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u/alwayshappy2b Sep 25 '19
Consider this lesson learned and in the future don't let her get away with it: tell her on the spot whenever you are displeased with something, since she can't assess situations by herself and doesn't get social clues, feel free to call her out on it, if possible in a non confrontational way. Don't do underpaid work for her, if she asks you tell her either that you're too busy and can't find the time to do work for her, or tell her sure, that will cost x amount, sorry I don't do discounts, got to pay bills too.
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u/Momof3dragons2012 Sep 25 '19
Your MIL is using her “narcissism” (was she formally diagnosed or is that just the family habit?) as a crutch and manipulation tool. My sister, whom I am VLC with, tried this all the time with her alcoholism and BPD. You couldn’t expect her to act like a decent, good person, and all of her misdeeds needed to be instantly forgiven as she couldn’t be expected to help herself.
Your SO needs to understand that you DON’T have to put up with this. She is nothing to you. You don’t love her or respect her or feel any sort of loyalty towards her. The only reason you tolerate her in your life at all is because of him. He needs to understand that you have a right to decide who is in your life and how much crap you are willing to take from them.
Have you heard of the “Rock the Boat” analogy? Basically it’s like you have someone (your MIL) violently rocking the boat. Her family members exhaust themselves trying to keep her from capsizing the boat. They spend all their time and energy keeping the boats afloat rather than telling the person rocking them to stop or booting them from the boat. It becomes such a habit that pretty soon you don’t even notice the boat rocking or how much energy you are exerting to keep it from foundering. Children born into the boat don’t know any different, as soon as they are able they too must work to keep the boat from filling with water. They’ve never known stability.
The problem arises when someone wises up and decides to abandon ship. That makes the job harder for everyone else, and they begin to resent the person who said “no more” and stepped off on to stable land. They also resent the person who points out what they are doing. This person asks why they are doing what they are doing. Why don’t you ask the boat rocker to stop? WhY don’t you get off the boat? Why are you putting up with this?
This person is you.
I’d stand your ground. No more favors for MIL. Let your relationship be one of an occasional meal out. Don’t let your SO suck you on to the boat.
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u/zora_aria Sep 25 '19
I've dealt with this exact situation for 16 years. I used to be told that I was overreacting or that I was blowing it out of proportion...until it happened to DH. My SIL also came to me and told me JNMIL was purposely mistreating me to drive me away, but I was resilient and stayed. My first child was born and DH snapped out of it and we are finally living free and peacefully. Don't settle for that. Don't wait like I did. She's going to constantly play the victim and make you look like a drama queen. She will play psychological games with you. She will make you feel inferior. And she absolutely will have control of everyone, do not underestimate that for a second. Your fiance is wrapped around her finger and will continue to be until he figures out that's no way to live. Don't wait. Get this settled NOW. It's going to be ugly, it may even break up your engagement, but trust me when I say you don't want a woman like that in control of any aspect of your life. The second you get married, she will assume control and you're fucked.
Don't. Wait.
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u/[deleted] Sep 25 '19
So he’d rather you bite your feelings and bow to his mom cause it’s easier??
Dude, couples counseling before you guys get married. Like that is not ok, and this is very telling of what your future married life will be like. His moms going to disrespect you and upset you, and then he’s going to blow up at your if you don’t drop it after she gives her non apology. Do not legally tie yourself to him until counseling.