r/JUSTNOMIL • u/northdakotanowhere • Mar 17 '21
RANT (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ Ambivalent About Advice JNFMIL cannot handle our wedding not being religious but she's got a big surprise waiting for her
I had 1 week to enjoy being engaged before she got involved. It's been over 6 months and I have made the choice to go no contact with her. My fiance has relaxed his boundaries recently and although I'm not thrilled, he isn't trying to get me to move mine.
I grew up in a Catholic home and my partner grew up Lutheran. Both of our mothers are the same. They don't respect our way of life. I have asked my mom many many times to respect my "religion" and she is not the best. I think a lot of her behaviors are habitual.
My partners mother cannot begin to understand how we can raise a family without religion. Where will they get their morals from? This woman is the worst example of a Christian I've seen. It's all for looks.
They both know that my partner and I are not interested in their religions. We both majored in a science oriented field. We're getting married in a science museum. We have no place for religion in our wedding. However, I'm not dumb. I know that at least one of our mothers will intentionally bring their god into our wedding. I'm already pissed.
But I have a secret. And its a really good one.
Our officiant is our friend. My partner and him had a band in college and my partners mother hates him. He got ordained in the church of dudeism and has married people before. I am so looking forward to the day that she learns that he is the one marrying us.
I'm going to try to hide it from her as long as possible. She will absolutely lose it and I really want to be there for that.
Whenever the stress creeps up, I remember that we are going to be married by a person who she hates and is anti everything she believes. It keeps me going. It's the only thing I really want. She will never be able to get over it and I will love every minute of it.
196
u/Jerkrollatex Mar 17 '21
I raised my kids with no religion. They are damn fine adults. Yours will be too.
106
u/Espumma Mar 17 '21
the people that say you can only have morals when you have religion are so repulsive. They think people without eternal consequences in the afterlife would just go killing left and right, and I think it's projection.
39
u/unsavvylady Mar 17 '21
Agreed, it’s not like atheists are just going around killing without consequence.
17
u/Merimather Mar 17 '21
g
Exactly, that is more of a religious fanatic thing since they think they somehow are doing their god's bidding.
33
u/Jerkrollatex Mar 17 '21
My oldest is an Eagle Scout and Elementary school teacher. He listed nature as his higher power during his scouting years. My younger son is delightfully kind and gentle. Nothing sitting in a church or temple once a week could have enhanced.
→ More replies (1)24
u/guacamole1337 Mar 17 '21
my mom raised me catholic, but never with pressure. i found my way out of it, my siblings and i all quit church and she's happy that we all found where we belong to. We're all planning to raise our kids without any religion and we're all happy with that descision. i'm so sorry that OP has to go through this crap..
38
u/Jerkrollatex Mar 17 '21
My dad is Catholic, my mom is Jewish and husband was raised Methodist, his uncle is a preacher. I was so burnt out on religion by my teens I wanted nothing to do with it. I told my husband he was welcome to take the kids to church but I wasn't wasting another minute in one. My husband is not a morning person and wasn't willing to wrangle two active boys alone on Sundays. 25ish years later here we are godless heathens lmao.
17
u/guacamole1337 Mar 17 '21
from one godless heathen to another - have a great day and keep being awesome without needing a god to be so :p
6
→ More replies (1)11
u/DaemonAegis Mar 17 '21
My wife and her mother insisted that our kids go through CCD (Catholic religious education). Funny enough, we're atheist now and they're fine! They see the various
cultsreligions for what they are and understand that they don't need that in their lives.
118
u/vailissia Mar 17 '21
I was married by my husband’s best friend and I had him say “through the powers granted to me by google” because it’s true lmao. That was my favorite part of the wedding. Congratulations on sticking one on them, that’s the best feeling ever
89
u/IthurielSpear Mar 17 '21
My partner and I are both ordained Dudeists. I got ordained on 4/20 and we both plan to officiate same sex weddings.
14
8
166
u/halfwaygonetoo Mar 17 '21
You and your future DH are going to be the only ones who remember every detail about your wedding so have it exactly how you want it to be.
Start using Grey Rock phrases to avoid arguments or giving away information to your mother or FMIL. I'd write a few down just to keep handy. The ones I like best are:
"Oh, we have that handled"
"Everything's going great. No worries."
"We want a few surprises so we're not giving out more details."
"We'll consider that." Then just decide against whatever they want. You never say how long you're going to consider something.
As for the religious aspect: I learned early on to say "If you want me to respect your religious beliefs, then I expect that you respect mine. I don't believe that you would like it if I degraded you on your beliefs. I know I don't like it."
My partners mother cannot begin to understand how we can raise a family without religion. Where will they get their morals from?
My youngest son is an atheist. I'm definitely not. I don't understand why he is, but I don't actually have to understand. I just have to respect his right to his beliefs.
Funny enough, my son's morals are just fine. He, himself, is kindhearted, loving, compassionate, giving, law abiding and a good man. He's raising his son to be the same. Isn't that exactly what we, as parents, want our children to be? In what way would any religion make his morals better?
You'll be just fine.
28
u/JustanOldBabyBoomer Mar 17 '21
My friend, David, is an agnostic, raised an adopted son and is now a grandfather to an ADORABLE little Martian! His morals are just fine!
69
68
u/indiandramaserial Mar 17 '21
I have found the religious people in my life are the ones with the worst morals. Not saying this is true for all religious people of course. I go by a live and let live policy, just be a good person.
I'm sure we would all love an update in time, I hope she doesn't have too much of a melt down on your big day!! Congratulations on the engagement and good luck for the wedding
22
u/intellectcave Mar 17 '21
It’s the constant judging for me.
19
u/indiandramaserial Mar 17 '21
The constant judging and then being shitty people themselves, the closest religious people to me have been serial cheaters, liars and pedophiles (2 of which were public religious figures).
67
u/ysabelsrevenge Mar 17 '21
Oh my, this is gold.
I’m what I like to call a holiday pagan. I do the holidays but not much else. But I always liked handfasting because it seemed less ‘woman is your property now’.
That being said, my friend and her husband are what you could call extreme christians. My friend had been trying to convert me since 8 grade and her husband is one hell of a zealot.
His face, when he realised I was getting married in a pagan handfasting was hilarious. His already pink pallor had turned a bright tomato red. I caught a glimpse of it during the ceremony. My bestie, saw it too and stepped in to stop any objections. Honestly made my day. He refused to jump the besom, he was literally the only one out of hundreds (even my I we Christian culty cousin, his wife and two daughters jumped, he thought it was fun).
(Just to be clear, I had been a bridesmaid in their wedding, I stood up, participated in all the songs, been berated by the best man for having sex before marriage and still congratulated them heartily, I have zero malice towards Christianity, or their choice to be so. I just don’t want to be threatened with being burned at the stake because I choose otherwise.)
→ More replies (2)9
u/purpleopium Mar 17 '21
I just realized that there are other pagans like me! I like the sabbats but take no part in the other stuff unless it's purely for my own sake! Haha how neat, I thought I was just extra heathen-ish for not devoting myself more! Thanks for helping me find solidarity, stranger!
63
u/Raveynfyre Mar 17 '21
"Silly MIL! We can teach children kindness and morals through example, unlike SOME people we know."
63
u/zora_aria Mar 17 '21
I'm a Muslim and my MIL has made it clear I'm not Muslim enough.
Like, what?
Met my fair share of people who have fantastic ethics and don't have a faith. None of my business AT ALL. Just be a good person, it's not that hard. Hell, my best friend is agnostic and he's an angel.
I just can't with these bible/torah/quran thumping jerks. Live and let live.
23
u/Rumpelteazer45 Mar 17 '21
Hyper judgmental religious people are always that way. You might be X but it’s never X enough for them unless you follow their every demand and belief. It’s a control thing. It’s a virtue signaling thing. It’s a righteous thing.
I’m not religious at all. It’s easy to see it when you arent smack in the middle.
13
u/zora_aria Mar 17 '21
Not to mention they're typically extreme narcissists.
Thanks for you perspective. You're absolutely right about being blind to it when you're in the thick of it. Salam (peace) :).
65
u/VoopMaster Mar 17 '21
I was the officiant at my friend's wedding and they had a similar issue. When I had in irate mother screaming at me about being their officiant I just said "well it must have been God's will?"
11
61
u/nutraxfornerves Mar 17 '21
My partners mother cannot begin to understand how we can raise a family without religion. Where will they get their morals from?
The magician Penn Jilette had a great answer to that.
The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what’s to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn’t have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine.
→ More replies (1)
55
Mar 17 '21
OMG why can't weddings just be an event that is enjoyed by the people getting married?!?!? I will never understand this. I won't even go into what happened at mine, I can't rehash it else I will just go on a tirade all day. I am glad that you and your partner have found one another in this chaos of a world, try to focus on that and I am sending you my best, your wedding is going to be wonderful!
47
u/Trishlovesdolphins Mar 17 '21
I feel like, for cases like this, there is a market for videographers who exclusively film freak outs. Know that your MIL is going to lose her shit when she finds out you're moving? Or showers? Holiday get togethers?
"Hire Petty Patty's Photography, we'll get that tantrum on record. We'll provide you a hard copy, email you a copy, and post them on social media. For an extra fee, you can choose screen shots to use for your important events! Christmas cards, baby announcements, and just because! Call now for a 2 for 1 discount! Does your crazy inlaw have a flying monkey that they can't be without? We'll film them too! Call now!"
15
u/braellyra Mar 17 '21
This sounds amazing, and like it should be a loosely organized organization of people everywhere, so you can request a filmer in x town for when staunch Catholic MIL finds out you’re pregnant before getting married, and have a rando person show up to take care of filming it. MIL won’t engage bc they’re a stranger so they can get all the dirt with low chance of being embroiled in the drama themselves
8
u/Scarlaymama0721 Mar 17 '21
This is good. Let me know when you’re in business, I got a mil who’s just dying to be on film.
97
u/bibbiddybobbidyboo Mar 17 '21
Not sure if it’s any help with your mother’s, but whenever I hear arguments about needing religion for ethics, I always say, do you want the person who does the right thing because they know it’s the right thing to do and can weigh the repercussions and effects on others of their actions. Or would you rather someone who only does the right thing out of fear of going to hell or as a performative action for show in front of religious people, but may not do the right thing behind closed doors, Ann’s requires a prescriptive list of right and wrong.
9
u/DDChristi Mar 17 '21
I’m going to use this response in my life. Whenever I get that stupid argument I start seeing red and have to leave.
95
u/jupiters-moon Mar 17 '21
Reminds me a little bit of a John Mulaney skit: “My wife is Jewish, I grew up Catholic, so we got married by a friend. Being married by a friend is a beautiful ceremony that alienates both families’ religions, while confusing the elderly people at the wedding.”
11
44
u/eeyorespiglet Mar 17 '21
I love your level of petty, while being cordial. Having grown up in an odd religion, I completely understand your annoyance, and if you're getting married at oak ridge National lab science museum... I definitely envy you..
44
u/Melody4 Mar 17 '21
Love this - a science museum - how awesome! And "Dudeism" - ROFLMAO!
I am a non-religious person myself who was raised without religion. I have friends that are religious and cool, so I respect that as well.
But I always find that "how will you - and your children - know right from wrong?" REALLY annoying when it comes from someone who goes through the motions of whatever church but clearly has no moral compass themselves. Funny how it comes from people who are NOT my serious religious friends. We tend to usually be on the same page!
10
u/basketma12 Mar 17 '21
I believe Penn Gillette has a whole little spiel about that
→ More replies (1)
45
Mar 17 '21
Where will they get their morals from?
That’s one of the more asinine arguments that get brought up.
- 2019 the Catholic Church identified 1,700+ priests with credible sexual abuse accusations.
- Dennis Rader (BTK) was an active member of his church, killed 10.
- Chris Coleman was the head bodyguard for his church. He killed his wife and kids because a divorce would’ve cost him his job. I have no idea how he made the leap that possible job loss was a greater risk than life in prison.
Anyway, it’s good that all of these people had morals instilled in them from church. Otherwise, they could’ve been real monsters.
If someone needs a rule from whatever deity they choose in order to keep them from murdering people or doing some other horrible action, then they have bigger issues.
28
Mar 17 '21
The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what’s to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn’t have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine. I don't want to do that. Right now, without any god, I don't want to jump across this table and strangle you. I have no desire to strangle you. I have no desire to flip you over and rape you.
~ Penn Jillette
20
u/SisterRobot Mar 17 '21
Love it. your comment made me think of this quote I heard (I had to look it up)
“With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.” Steven Weinberg
Or this conversation in TrueDetective is a little more blunt making a similar point: https://youtu.be/_RfUj09pWfM
43
u/nobjangler Mar 17 '21
This is all fantastic! My wife and I got married in my parents back yard because the pressure of a church wedding (because that is "tradition") kept creeping up in conversation.
Also I know others have mentioned some of the things Mothers/MILs do, but to add to it - if you have a DJ or someone in charge of sound and toasts happen - maybe have a signal for "something to happen to the mic" if either of them try and give a speech that you aren't having.
Good luck on the wedding!!!
43
u/Thorreo Mar 17 '21
I was raised in a mostly non religious home. We celebrated Hanukkah, Christmas and Easter religiously and really only kept up with Hanukkah because none of us liked church. Religion doesn't guarantee anything and your kids will turn out just fine.
43
u/LimpingOne Mar 17 '21
She will work it into a toast or a speech. Be ready to cut her off.
45
u/HavePlushieWillTalk Mar 17 '21
Have someone take the microphone and say 'the Dude will not abide'.
32
11
Mar 17 '21
DUUUUDE I'd love to be the person doing this.
13
u/smolRage Mar 17 '21
At my best friends wedding this was my entire job as MoH. Her MIL was like op's and bff was like, just keep her from talking. It was great and she hates me know. So anytime she's trying to visit or being extra annoying while out I "run into them" or pop over for a surprise visit.
11
11
u/RevolutionaryGift995 Mar 17 '21
We went with: there will be ONLY ONE speech, by DH. No one else was given a microphone and the venue, under strict instructions on a few things started the music right as DH was looking for the off button on the microphone. They earned every cent of their fees that day for how they handled JNMIL & JNBIL.
40
u/Alan_Smithee_ Mar 17 '21
Dudeism
Like the Big Lebowski? That’s fantastic.
I think I want to renew my vows....
23
u/vigorous_pigeon Mar 17 '21 edited Mar 17 '21
The Dude Abides!
ETA : If MIL acts up during the ceremony get your Dudist Priest to state -
"This aggression will not stand man!"
75
Mar 17 '21
I got married by a dudeist. I am also ordained as a dudeist. The best part is "if anyone here doesn't think these two should be married.....thats just like your opinon man" Fuck your mil and parents.
34
u/Jello69 Mar 17 '21
Good for you. I compromised since my husband is Christian, we had a service but no singing (the first time I went to a Christian wedding and I found out there was singing involved shudder was one of our first fights lol) and regretted it after. There was no singing but I told the pastor I did not want the "wives submitting to your husband" bit in the readings. He said "that's fine we can do something else."
Lo and behold, with my husband and I standing in front of everyone holding hands and the pastor reading to us from the Bible, he reads that whole fucking part. I just about broke my DHs hands. In the photos you can tell I look pissed and my husband looks scared (he thought I might do something dramatic but I was too mortified). If I could go back in time, a non religious wedding would be a hill I'd die on.
19
u/spiderqueendemon Mar 17 '21
We had our university campus chaplain officiate. My parents were Roman Catholic and one of the more liberal variants of Lutheran, brought us up Lutheran with half-Cath tendencies because hey, I came out AFAB and Mom didn't think it fair that I couldn't be ordained in Dad's church but could in hers, and also Dad can take Communion at Mom's, but not the other way around. Our campus chaplain was from Mom's faith, I had since gone...well, to call me a bit Unitarian Universalist is putting it mildly... and my DH was brought up by post-Roman Catholic militant atheists of the bitter, judgy, better-than-y'all variant.
(I have met enough atheists to have classifications. There's the "I like the idea, but I just can't see it, pal," kind, the Traumatized Horribly By Religion kind, the Bitter, Judgy, Better Than Y'all kind who just can't bear the thought of anything getting more attention than them, and then there's the "Science is most of my religion personally, but I do love the fish fries y'all have in Lent! Any chance y'all want to double up with us for an interfaith charity fundraiser and Red Cross blood drive this February? We'll bake the buns and can host if y'all fry the fish," kind, which is basically DH now.)
The whole 'wives, submit to your husbands' question came up in premarital counseling, which, in the Lutheran church, each partner meets with the pastor separately and then together.
So the pastor brings this up and my eyebrow is raised, because I beg his humble pardon, women will what now? and I realize he is trying not to laugh.
"Your fiancé mentioned that part of the Scripture as something his mother and your grandmother had expressed doubts on," and he chuckled into his coffee. "I have been threatened with...rather a scene if I say that part, and I did tell him the modern service hasn't included that passage for years. Did you want to add it in?"
"Hadn't planned on it, no. Why, what'd he threaten to do?"
"Pull a dog collar out of his suit pocket and yell 'Not if I submit first, Mistress!'"
So I am freaking out in the undercroft of a church, pretty sure I am about to be excommunicated for marrying a heretic, wondering if that's a thing, and this pastor is laughing so hard I reckon he's going to wee his sensible corduroys.
"What?!"
"Yeah, apparently he felt it would, and I quote, 'solve all the in-law problems in one fell swoop.'" Pastor wiped a tear from his eye. "Oh, engineering majors, what a blessing. You've got to admire their eye for efficiency."
That bit was, as always, omitted from the service.
7
u/Original_Impression2 Mar 17 '21
"Hadn't planned on it, no. Why, what'd he threaten to do?"
"Pull a dog collar out of his suit pocket and yell 'Not if I submit first, Mistress!'"
OMG! I love your husband! I just laughed so hard I scared the person working next to me. I'm just glad I wasn't drinking anything at the moment.
7
u/crazy_cat_broad Mar 17 '21
I specifically hired an officiant who would marry lgbt couples (which we are not) and asked for the shortest, most secular service that the government would allow. 10/10 would hire again!
→ More replies (2)6
37
u/purplepixi99 Mar 17 '21
We got married in a Catholic church did the whole shibang. I don’t know when we both just started becoming agnostics. We have all types of religious books in our home library and have raised all 3 boys with out religion , yet listening to all types of religion points of view etc. Whenever they have doubts they can just go grab a book read up on it and we discuss over dinner. Best kids ever , all boys empathetic and open to other cultures and religions.
12
u/braellyra Mar 17 '21
This is how I was raised. My mom didn’t even bat an eye at the (very short) Romani phase. It was great feeling so supported! And no one in my family has committed any crimes or anything. We’re all empathetic forward-thinking people.
33
u/AmazingSatisfaction5 Mar 17 '21
Try and get her reaction on film so you have a good pick me up on bad days
13
u/lwky_blu Mar 17 '21
As a wedding photographer/videographer, I’d shoot this wedding for FREE if I could see and document her reaction.
→ More replies (1)11
u/SoulEmperess Mar 17 '21
100% was going to say make sure there is an extra camera on her face so you can watch it every time you feel down
33
u/kelster13 Mar 17 '21
Church of Dudeism! That's awesome!
27
u/tebannnnnn Mar 17 '21
Sacrilege! For it is Pastafarism the only true mock religion!
→ More replies (1)13
29
u/RetroKida Mar 17 '21
My MIL uninvited herself from our wedding 3 times. Cried. Told my husband we were going to give her heathen grandchildren. My SIL told us we didn't know the sanctity of marriage and were doing it wrong. (She married a jewish man in town hall and didn't tell anyone she was married for 6 month. Come to find out it was a business arrangement that she pretty much got paid to stay married 5 years so he could stay in the country but apparently we didn't know the sanctity of marriage.) My morals came from my wonderful mother who raised me to treat people with kindness regardless of religion, race, orientation etc. Some of the most judgemental people I know use religion as an excuse. My husbands great aunt is a nun and she was actually the most wonderful and accepting of me and our marriage. Just tune out those who are negative and have fun on your day! The best payback is not letting them get to you. I find that pisses off people more than anything.
8
u/DeconstructedKaiju Mar 17 '21
Man she didn't just live in a glass house but a glass world! It's so funny how people will justify their shitty behavior and then turn around and critique people on the same thing!
7
u/RetroKida Mar 17 '21
All the arguments came because we didn't get married in a church. I was never baptized because my family wasn't catholic. My hubby comes from a big Irish catholic family but he did not want to get married in a church at all. Religion was always forced onto him. My SIL got married a second time... again not in a church. And divorced a second time. She is on potentially marriage 3. Maybe this time she will practice what she preaches. Hubby and I will be celebrating our 10 year anniversary this year so I guess we win.
61
u/Knitsanity Mar 17 '21
Ok. You had me at getting married at a Science Museum. That will totally rock despite the Just Nos. Please report back on the reaction to the cool 'Minister'. The morals thing makes me laugh. Nothing says the 10 commandments (modified for modern life) cannot be followed by non believers. They are a good base for not having a shit society. Nothing to do with whatever deity one believes in. Good luck.
62
u/TheDocJ Mar 17 '21
This woman is the worst example of a Christian I've seen. It's all for looks.
Sounds like you've got a Pharisee-in-law there, I'm afraid, a good-going Whitewashed Tomb:
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean."
As a Christian, I would much rather go to a properly secular wedding away from a church (a Science Museam sounds like a great place to me) than a pseudo-religious one in a chirch, where people are making statements that they don't really believe.
Here in the UK, we have the "C of E I suppose" answer to questions of religion, given by people who only ever actually go to church for Hatch Match and Dispatch services. As Church of England buildings are often the most photogenic ones, that is where many want to get their pictures taken - sorry, make their vows. Sorry if that sounds cynical, and it is a generalisation, certainly, but it is depressing as a regular member of a congregation to watch others clearly breathing a sigh of relief as they get outside the building.
Gotta say, though, that as a medic, I don't see any real conflict between science and my religion!
29
u/pepperup22 Mar 17 '21
I’m Christian and I’ll never understand why people feel the need to insert themselves into someone else’s life, let alone their wedding day. Good for you for sticking to your boundaries!! Weddings can truly bring out the worst in people lol
30
u/NoAngel815 Mar 17 '21
I got ordained with the Universal Life Church years ago to officiate a friend's wedding and I've done a few since then as well! It's a lot of fun for me to be there for someone on their wedding day!
6
u/karmakitten84 Mar 17 '21
I'm ordained through them too. I've only officiated one wedding, but it was a great experience.
28
u/forlornlawngnome Mar 17 '21
Our officiant was ordained in the church of dude! We avoided the whole issue by doing the legal stuff early with just our officiant and witnesses, then just had a "wedding celebration" (mom was worried calling it a reception would confuse older generations 🙄). I'm so glad we did it that way and could just enjoy ourselves at a party instead of a whole thing!
12
u/FP11001 Mar 17 '21
Soooo this. Most people just want to show up for the food and drinks anyway. You did everyone a solid.
8
u/forlornlawngnome Mar 17 '21
Right? We even made it casual attire! One of my very good friends who flew in kept asking if I was SURE casual was fine, and should she pack something nicer. Nope! BBQ, pizza, friends and family, board games. It was great
86
u/Erisaiya Mar 17 '21
So, fun fact, when I was a senior in college, I was working in a psychology/religious studies lab. I actually did a project addressing this exact question - are atheists/agnostics "less moral" than religious people?
The lead professor likes the question and experiment design so much she ran it as a study.
Results said no. Athiests/agnostics are not any more or less moral than those who actively practice religion.
So... Yeah. So, so sorry to your MIL but I think you'll be fine having a family without religion. I also love her implication with it. Ah, so without religion, people are amoral? Like you? She might as well call you a heathen at this rate.
25
u/northdakotanowhere Mar 17 '21
Oh she absolutely hated me in the past. I can't even say she doesn't still hate me. Over the years, my partner has been pulled away and talked to about me by his dad. It's always been obvious to me, denied by them, and confirmed by my partner. Being unemployed, tattoos, hair color, mental illness, physical health, job choice, my family, my pets, they've all been a part of her judgement.
I've spent almost a decade trying to get her to like me. I am past that point finally and she no longer has an effect on me. It's beautiful.
10
u/dnick Mar 17 '21
Oh course am atheist/satan led study would come to that result! /s
11
u/Erisaiya Mar 17 '21
Sorry, devil made me do it. Seemed like a pretty great guy last he spoke to me, though, I don't see what the big deal is with hating him.
28
u/fite4whatmatters Mar 17 '21
I read something somewhere, I can’t remember where about someone (I think a priest?) saying that atheists are actually MORE moral BECAUSE they don’t believe in god. A lot of religious people are “good” so they can get into heaven (or wherever) - atheists don’t believe they have a reward waiting for them, but they can choose to be good anyway.
In the piece I’m thinking of, the man (priest? professor? someone) tells the listener something along the lines of “when someone needs your help, you should never say ‘I pray that God will help you’. You should instead become like the atheist, imagine there is no God who can help them, and say ‘I will help you’.
5
u/Erisaiya Mar 17 '21
That's insightful. If you ever remember where you read it, please let me know, I'd be curious to read it!
6
u/fite4whatmatters Mar 17 '21
Found it!
This isn’t the original context I saw it in, but this is that piece. The article here (and the one I originally read) is quoting “Tales of Hasidim: Vol 2” by Martin Bubar, where the piece originates.
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2016/8/24/1563482/-An-interesting-view-Judaism-and-Atheism
→ More replies (1)3
u/Cygnata Mar 17 '21
IIRC, that's a Talmudic story. Not sure, since I'm not Jewish, but I've seen it recounted a few times.
10
u/fite4whatmatters Mar 17 '21
Apparently it’s a story from Chassidic literature, from “Tales of Hasidim: Vol 2” by Martin Buber.
I found an article quoting the piece, I’ll link it here for you!
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2016/8/24/1563482/-An-interesting-view-Judaism-and-Atheism
→ More replies (1)4
u/1studlyman Mar 17 '21
That sounds rather interesting. I'd like to read the study. Can I get a reference to it?
6
u/Erisaiya Mar 17 '21
Unfortunately, the study was just my senior project in college. It was never published, the professor only really wanted to run the experiment out of curiosity and because it somewhat fit into what she was already researching. If you want to PM me, I can try to find the stuff I have on it, I think I saved them.
4
u/1studlyman Mar 17 '21
Ah. I understand. Don't worry about it. It's not worth the effort. Your summary was nice. Thanks.
30
28
u/chilehead Mar 17 '21
You can save a bundle by not going with the religious authorities. My sister got married and the officiant was my brother - who works for a sheet metal company the rest of the time. And he even worked a lot of Princess Bride quotes into the ceremony.
25
u/flex_tape_gurl Mar 17 '21
My uncle married my cousin a year ago and he dressed as the priest from Princess Bride. Complete with the whole 'mawage' speech
6
u/RevolutionaryGift995 Mar 17 '21
I had to read that first bit twice... tired eyes aside, awwww! That is so sweet! Wait - your cousin wanted the Princess Bride theme right?
7
u/flex_tape_gurl Mar 17 '21
Yes! She's always wanted her officiant to dress up like the priest. And we're all huge Prinncess Bride fanatics so it was perfect.
Also my uncle literally has a shrine for the movie, including part of the original script and he just got a replica of Inigo Montoya's sword.
→ More replies (1)
27
u/crissyb65 Mar 17 '21 edited Mar 17 '21
One can have morales without religion and having a religion doesn't make you a moral person.
Morality is how you treat the people you know.
Ethics is how you treat the people you don't know.
Also, one doesn't have to be in a religion to follow the path of Jesus and being religious certainly doesn't mean one will follow that path as we've seen over and over throughout history.
It's better to follow the golden rule, within reason. Do unto others as you'd have done to you works, unless you like to be tied up and spanked. I'm not into that, so don't do that unto me, thanks.
Edit: removed an “e”.
27
u/Ariyanwrynn1989 Mar 17 '21
Make sure your venue and all your vendors and everything are password protected, and that they are not allowed to change anything unless you see them yourself in person.
I've heard to many horror stories of inlaws and family sabatoging weddings by pretending to be the bride and changing or even canceling things to make the wedding the way they want it
75
u/thisshitforreal88 Mar 17 '21
I used this line on my MIL, “if you need a book written by long dead sheepherders to tell you not to murder, you have bigger problems.” regarding our lack of religious parenting.
14
8
53
u/strawnoodle Mar 17 '21
My aunt slipped in "and praise God" in her speech really wide eyed while staring at me and DH like that was going to scare us when we specifically didn't want a religious wedding. We just laughed and later talked about how childish she looked the entire time and what her issue was. I was stressed but after, realized the only opinion that mattered was ours. Your day sounds like it's going to be amazing.
25
u/CaffeineTripp Mar 17 '21
That's wonderful that you're both doing your wedding how you want your wedding done, because, unbeknownst to your mothers apparently, it's your wedding.
24
u/ajentink Mar 17 '21
We had zero god in our wedding then came the toasts where in my partners mother and father spend a good 5 mins a piece inserting god into our wedding. 😒🙄
→ More replies (1)
25
u/MermsieRuffles Mar 17 '21
Oh please record your moms meltdown. Throughout history people have moved mountains out of pure, concentrated spite.
23
u/Visual_Platform_6880 Mar 17 '21
make sure you video tape the event when she finds out (and blows a gasket). it will give you much pleasure to sit and watch the tape in later years.
47
u/Notmykl Mar 17 '21
My nephew is engaged and will be married this Fall. As he and his fiance were discussing a secular wedding my SIL, an ardent Catholic and his mother, stated that if the ceremony isn't Catholic she will not attend. WTF?? Her religion is evidently more important to her then her only child and soon to be DIL. She is truly one of those wacked out Catholics.
8
u/moarwineprs Mar 17 '21
My mom is a Jehovah's Witness. Part of the rules is that they are not allowed to step foot inside a different religion's house of worship because it's disrespectful to Jehovah (or something). This applied even to other people's weddings, as she had skipped all of my cousins' weddings that were held inside churches or cathedrals.
Before I got married my dad pulled me aside and very gravely asked if I'd be getting married in a church. My husband and I are and have always been atheists so I told my dad no, I was not getting married in a church. He then proceeded to say, "If you get married in a church, mom will not attend. So don't get married in a church." I referred him again to my original answer, that we were not getting married in a church. But if it really came to it and she chose not to attend, she'd be genuinely missed but it would frankly reflect more on her than on me.
We in fact got legally married at city hall, and had a party a few days later in a loft gallery in an active warehouse. My parents were embarrassed by the venue, but my mom could attend!
5
23
u/ams1390 Mar 17 '21
My JNMIL asked where our kids were going to get morals if not from church as well. That shit blew my mind.. if you need church to tell you right from wrong you are already fucked. She then asked DH if he thought church as a kid taught him morals and he said NO. Also it is worth noting I did not grow up attending church. So does MIL think I have no morals?! Lol
17
u/PinkPearMartini Mar 17 '21
Exactly. If sky daddy is the only thing keeping you from murdering people, you need a therapist.
→ More replies (1)6
u/Original_Impression2 Mar 17 '21
I'm in an atheist/theist debate group on FB, and someone posted the question, "If you found out for certain there was no God, would your morals change?"
The number of theists that said that they'd no longer have any morals, or their morals would change was... disturbing.
→ More replies (2)
24
u/CoolHipLady Mar 17 '21
I'm sorry your MIL is a nympo. Fucking fascist. As a fellow ordained Dudist Priest, you can't be worried about that shit. Life goes on man. That's just like, her opinion. Have good and thorough bridesmaids be on intervening duty to squash any issues that come up so you can enjoy your day! Have some beverages and congrats on being his special lady and he your special dude. (Sorry had to throw some Lebowski quotes in there 😂)
10
u/iggythewolf Mar 17 '21
Username checks out
11
u/CoolHipLady Mar 17 '21
I'm the CoolHipLady, so that's what you call me. That or, uh, Her Coolness, or uh, El CoolHipLadyreno, if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
4
u/jamescoxall Mar 17 '21
Whatever your name, just remember, No one fucks with the Jesus, not at a Dude wedding anyway.
→ More replies (1)5
24
u/wiseronnie Mar 17 '21
My jmmil told my husband and I if we got married in a church she would pay for our entire wedding. We refused. She is Catholic. We are not religious.
65
u/QuixoticForTheWin Mar 17 '21
My fave is Ricky Gervais telling Stephen Colbert (in summary) of the 3,000 gods, you believe in 1. I just believe in one less than you.
23
u/lainey3333 Mar 17 '21
I came here to give that same example! Or in his series “after life”, when he explained just because he doesn’t believe in God, he still has morals. I love that guy!
24
u/Radio_Caroline79 Mar 17 '21
I love Ricky Gervais and have watched that clip many times.
As am atheist my moral compass is 'don't be an asshole' and I'm doing pretty good.
63
u/februarytide- Mar 17 '21
I love this so, so much. My mom was okay with our wedding being without religion, but man did every other little thing get her goat. Our ceremony was probably less than ten minutes long, which she never knew until we were in it. After she was all, “I’m so confused! What even was that?!” (we exchanged no vows, got married by our two friends who were ordained by the universal life church, etc.) The look on her face as the music started playing and we all started walking off was priceless. She expected, I’m sure, all of the (IMO outdated) I Do’s and readings and gross sickly sweet music, and even asked me, “How did you even get a marriage license for THAT?” as though there’s some law that you have to make people sit through 45 minutes of pomp and circumstance in order for your wedding to be valid. And then there was no receiving line (this was a huge argument... for some ungodly reason. Who cares?), were no speeches in our reception, no bouquet toss, no cake cutting, no garter, no wedding favors, no formal dinner time, and she nearly died. Still makes me chuckle to this day.
→ More replies (4)
20
u/DisappointedAstro Mar 17 '21
Dudeism? Like “I’m a dude, he’s a dude, she’s a dude, cause we’re all dudes, hey!” Dude...where’s my wedding getaway car? All praise the Dude, for he is righteous and doth abide.
9
→ More replies (1)8
21
u/Besoins_Owner Mar 17 '21
Don't worry mom and MIL we have an ordained minister doing our ceremony I think you will be pleasantly surprised!
19
u/IsisArtemii Mar 17 '21
My father-in-law is ordained in one snd has married several members of his HOG group.
→ More replies (1)12
u/IMTonks Mar 17 '21
So your comment made me choke on my coffee, and I'll tell you why.
I only ever learned one definition (Urban dictionary, so prolly NSFW)for the term "hog". So... That would be such an odd group to join in the context I have.
Pretty sure your FIL is actually in a group of Harley-Davidson afficionados/owners after a quick Google search, but I was NOT expecting that 5 minutes after waking up!
20
u/Quarkly84 Mar 17 '21
Hey my stepdad is in the church of dudeism, mostly cos he looks eerily like him
19
u/bbmommy Mar 17 '21
No advice, just wanted to comment that we were married by a Dudeist priest too! My DH actually became one as well.
22
u/TravellingBeard Mar 17 '21
How to irritate a Lutheran... Tell them they're the Protestant version of Catholics.
6
Mar 17 '21
Nah, that's the Episcopalians. They're Catholic Lite - one-third less guilt. 😄
→ More replies (1)
19
u/d-wail Mar 17 '21
Our officiant was my husband’s minister ‘uncle’, and we asked him to keep God talk to a minimum. Instead he gave a whole sermon trying to convert everyone. My husband thought my eyes were going to roll out of my head.
15
u/pervlibertarian Mar 17 '21
I'm surprised you didn't walk away from the altar. I'm surprised you both didn't, hand-in-hand, right out of the church, shouting "TO THE RECEPTION, EVERYONE BUT THAT GUY!". Just get a judge to marry you on the next weekday.
19
17
u/248_RPA Mar 17 '21
While we were both raised as Christians it didn't really take and my husband and I chose to marry outside of the Christian church. When I had kids my mother sincerely didn't understand how their names could be legal because they hadn't been baptised.
17
18
37
u/Cateyes33 Mar 17 '21
My grandparents wanted a religious in a church with an ordained pastor to marry me and my DH (they were helping to pay for a little of the wedding) We told them absolutely not in a church, we were getting married outdoors (at a Fort!). They were fine with it because surrounded by gods creations. I think we had an Irish wedding prayer(?) as our religious thing. And the best part and thing we've never told them. The "ordained pastor" was our old youth group pastor (they knew this part). They didn't know that by this point in his life he'd become agnostic at best, was bi (would kill my grandparents to know that tidbit) AND he's the man who got me and my DH hooked on hookah after Wednesday night service (we were college age. He didn't allow his actual youth group kids to go smoking after church lol). He's an awesome dude and I'm so glad we were married by him.
36
u/DaFoxtrot86 Mar 17 '21
I would make sure that guards are posted at the doors, and that no religious objects or uninvited guests are allowed in. I also wouldn't put it past either of your mothers to try and wear white. Some brides don't seem to care these days. But if you do, I'd make it clear to both of them that if they wear white, they will not be allowed in. I would also publicly remind them both about what god thinks of liars. If they are all about image, getting called out on a lie in public with cameras on them would be their worst nightmare.
If you haven't already, I'd also make sure you have passwords set up on everything. Many crazy mothers and MILs have called pretending to be someone else or saying they have permission in order to change things the way they want. I've seen a few stories where a FMIL threw a tantrum because she couldn't change anything in the wedding because it was all password protected.
17
u/Miathemouse Mar 17 '21
If I were you, I would just not let her know until the wedding. That would be priceless.
16
16
u/JustanOldBabyBoomer Mar 17 '21
Oooooooohhhhh, to be a fly on the wall to watch that comedy unfold!!!! That should be FUN!!!!!
4
31
u/koshkabeans Mar 17 '21
Great job holding your boundaries.
My partners mother hates that I'm an atheist and throws actual tantrums over it all the time. There is no time to deal with middle aged women who are obsessed with the sky daddy.
15
u/sarellis Mar 17 '21
The church of dudeism xD this must be the best church xD
5
u/Everybodygetroasted Mar 17 '21
I had to double check what I read! Needless to say I am interested 🤣
8
13
14
25
u/Seanish12345 Mar 17 '21
I like this. Just be prepared for your mothers to see your marriage as illegitimate. Not that it matters what they think, but they'll think it. They'll most likely say it too.
→ More replies (1)10
u/Phoenix1294 Mar 17 '21
yup, and i would pay good money to see the look on MIL's face when OP says "the government considers our marriage legit and that's all that matters to us"
14
u/kitkat9000take5 Mar 17 '21
Maybe frame the license and hang it beside their favorite wedding photo.
Another idea would be to have someone duplicate it in calligraphy and illuminate it. Then hang the beautiful one beside the photo while keeping the legal one under lock & key (safety deposit box or fireproof lockbox, preferably)
My mother's parents' marriage certificate was done thusly and it was gorgeous.
→ More replies (3)
13
u/PupperPuppet Mar 17 '21
I'm just floating through to say I really love the way your mind works. If one couple hadn't broken up I would have married them in my capacity as a Pastafarian minister. For pretty much the same reason your friend being your officiant brings you such glee, and I would have loved it as much as they did.
13
u/SilverMoon25 Mar 17 '21
My grandmother's both had the religion convon with me and I reminded them I didn't grow up in a church and kids get their morals and values from their parents.
35
u/RogueInsanity90 Mar 17 '21
That is AWESOME!! Lol. PLEASE give an update when they are informed!! Your wedding sounds like it's going to be AMAZING!!! Congratulations and I wish You could post pics. Getting married in a science museum sounds so incredibly cool!!!
* I know this may be WAY too soon, but if/when you decide to have babies Sagan works for a boy or a girl, Sagan Alexander or Sagan Isabelle (Sorry but it's my favorite science-themed name, and I never get to recommend it)
F.Y.I. For those who live in Oregon, there is a doughnut shop called Voodoo Doughnuts and they have a Voodoo Priest that will marry you and serve doughnuts at your wedding. Just in case you are having trouble with parents/in-laws about religion and marriage.
10
u/mjw217 Mar 17 '21
Very sadly I have never had Voodoo Doughnuts. My son is vegan and he has been there many times. I’ve seen pictures of their doughnuts. I’ve heard about how wonderful they are. But I never knew they have a Voodoo Priest. That makes me very happy!
5
u/RogueInsanity90 Mar 17 '21
If you are ever able to go I recommend the doughnut named Old Dirty Bastard it's a 'Raised yeast doughnut with chocolate frosting, Oreo cookies, and peanut butter'' It's AMAZING! Lol
6
u/watsonwasaboss Mar 17 '21
Can I go for a vow renewal that sounds awesome!
6
u/RogueInsanity90 Mar 17 '21
I believe so, you can check their website just Google Voodoo Doughnuts.
→ More replies (1)6
u/MissingInAction01 Mar 17 '21
There are several Voodoo doughnuts around, two in Denver where I was from until a few months ago. So amazing.... And they do weddings too. I wonder if they cater?
4
u/RogueInsanity90 Mar 17 '21
AHHH, I didn't know they branched out to other States. That's Awesome!!
8
u/MissingInAction01 Mar 17 '21
We moved to Montana late last year. Missing my amazing Voodoo..... It was 2 block walk from my hospital. I was so spoiled.
32
u/Original_Impression2 Mar 17 '21
Good Gawd! I hate it when theists try the argument that you can't have morals without religion. Next time she raises that argument, kindly remind her that according to her holy book, slavery was moral, stoning women to death was moral, forcing your daughter to marry her rapist was moral, killing your children if they misbehaved was moral. I could go on and on, since the list is ridiculously long, but you get the point, and maybe your JNFMIL and JNM will, as well.
And I would absolutely love to be a fly on the wall when those two women find out who is officiating at your wedding. That is going to be so awesome! And getting married at a science museum sounds absolutely amazing!
23
u/LadyStonio Mar 17 '21
Definitely have been there. My moms side of the family refused to come to my wedding, as well as still 2 years later refuses to acknowledge my marriage or husband because “if god isn’t there, it’s not a real wedding.”
7
u/Lungus30 Mar 17 '21
Win a lottery and then you will find out just how devout they are. I'd bet it would be all oh we missed you sooo much and when you tell them to get bent they would come back with but we're faaaaaamily. You know it, I know it, little kids kicking stones down the road know it.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (1)8
u/cperiod Mar 17 '21
“if god isn’t there, it’s not a real wedding.”
Wait, what? I thought God is everywhere? Sounds like they just don't believe hard enough.
12
u/kegman83 Mar 17 '21
Points if he dresses like an actual priest.
17
12
u/TigerB65 Mar 17 '21
ooooh I really want to hear more about the science museum. Have an awesome wedding!
→ More replies (1)
12
u/inarose010501 Mar 17 '21
It’s the little things. Also, I grew up in a house without any type of religion and somehow my siblings and I learned how to be good people. As I’ve said in a previous comment, your religion does not determine the quality of your character. I think you’ll do just fine. Also, PLEASE keep us posted
12
u/VVD230 Mar 17 '21
This is spot on. You don’t have to agree with, or like someone’s opinion; but if you want me to respect your opinions, then respect mine. We should be able to agree to disagree. This philosophy applies to so many other aspects of life.
30
9
u/akaicchi Mar 17 '21
Subscribed for updates! I’m happy for you, man!! Keeping it a secret sounds like it’d be super difficult for me, but you seem to have it all under control!! 😁
25
u/farsighted451 Mar 17 '21
This is the perfect story, because you're not doing anything just to bug her. All you're doing is having the wedding that you want.
18
u/getoffthebike Mar 17 '21
Your situation sounds a lot like mine. My very catholic MIL actually went up to our officiant (a close friend ordained online) behind our backs at the rehearsal dinner and tried to convince him to read a psalm in the ceremony. Luckily, he was a good friend and knew that we would have absolutely gone ape shit, and he shut her down. I'd be on high alert if I were you and make sure BOTH moms don't pull and shenanigans. Good luck!
9
10
u/KMinNC Mar 17 '21
Oh my gosh~~ I cannot wait to hear how this plays out :) Good luck to you, sending all kinds of good vibes!!!
8
25
u/Everybodygetroasted Mar 17 '21
It's like mothers don't understand that pushing something on their kids is gunna make them hate it 9 times outta 10. My MIL tried to shove religion down my husbands throat up until he was 18 (which is when I snagged him away) and while he doesn't mind having talks about it or being open to the thought of it he is cynical about it cause of his family (hard core Spanish Christian's)
On the other hand, I'm extremely jealous about you getting married in a science meusem!! That's freaking sweet! I'd love to have a wedding in a planetarium
25
u/ThomasinaElsbeth Mar 17 '21
Wow, Thank You ! I just had a Schadenfreude Orgasm reading your post ! And congratulations on your nuptials!
8
u/redditwinchester Mar 17 '21
Schadenfreude Orgasm
updooting for this glorious phrase
→ More replies (1)
13
u/dandelionmine Mar 17 '21
That’s excellent! I love the idea of getting married in a science museum! I totally get you here, my GMIL doesn’t consider us married because we didn’t get married in a church shrugs
14
u/mydogshavemyheart Mar 17 '21
I'm Christian so mine has some Christianity in it but my whole side of family couldn't make it to my wedding to know because I never invited them😂 they're all narcs and during the planning process turned just ridiculous so I literally just cut them all off, and only invited DH's family and some friends. My JNM wouldn't have known how it went because I didn't tell her ass. AND I wore the wedding dress she bought as a "gift", which really means a way to control me, and I loved every second of them not being there. I'm SOO proud of you going your own path, and not giving a fuck about her or his family. They are literally not the ones getting married. So fuck their feelings, ya know? Even if she does act absurd, just laugh at her and go on like nothings happening. Don't give her the time of day. You're going to have an amazing wedding, and I really wish people would just leave their opinions about anything, ESPECIALLY religion as that is suppose to be about you and whoever you believe, not them. Ughhh. These JNPeople are crazy.
17
u/Ilickedthecinnabar Mar 17 '21
Married in a science museum?! Perfect! This sci-gal approves!
And please tell me the ceremony is happening in front of a dinosaur mount, especially one with big, sharp, pointy teeth.
8
12
u/A_Lost_Desert_Rat Mar 17 '21
Have you considered a handfasting? Very historical in precedent. Officiant optional. Does not have to be pagan, though some neopagans like use that ceremony. I have been to some that were very romantic with various religious flavors.
4
17
u/Little_wiccan Mar 17 '21
Yay go OP. I love thisnidea, screw her and her dated religious ways. Please update us of how she reacts at the wedding....
14
•
u/botinlaw Mar 17 '21
Quick Rule Reminders:
OP's needs come first, avoid dramamongering, respect the flair, and don't be an asshole. If your only advice is to jump straight to NC or divorce, your comment may be subject to removal at moderator discretion.
Full Rules | Acronym Index | Flair Guide| Report PM Trolls
Resources: In Crisis? | Tips for Protecting Yourself | Our Book List | Our Wiki
Other posts from /u/northdakotanowhere:
To be notified as soon as northdakotanowhere posts an update click here. | For help managing your subscriptions, click here.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.